Discerning between genuine and made-up interpretations of tongues

[topher694]

According to scripture, "When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken (Acts 2:6)." God bless.

There is more than one scripture about tongues and I am familiar with all of them, not just the ones that fit a preferred narrative.

 

[topher694]

According to scripture, "When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken (Acts 2:6)." God bless.

BTW, what natural language do you know of that when spoken others can understand in multiple different languages?

 

[bling]

When person A claiming to have the gift of interpretation of tongues interprets person B's tongue speaking, how can we go about discerning whether the interpretation is genuine or made-up? How can we know whether B's tongue speaking is genuine and A's interpretation is also genuine?

Record it and give it to another person who says they have the gift of interpreting tongues and see if that person comes up with the other person's interpretation, with out knowing what was said previously.

 

[Guojing]

According to scripture, "When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken (Acts 2:6)." God bless.

And if the law of 1st mention is not enough, here is the 2nd mention of tongues as actual human languages in Acts 10, as explained by Peter in Acts 11

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

 

[Guojing]

Record it and give it to another person who says they have the gift of interpreting tongues and see if that person comes up with the other person's interpretation, with out knowing what was said previously.

Nice! This reminds me of the South park episode about Joseph Smith where the wife gave the same advice, in the 1:30 mark.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

When person A claiming to have the gift of interpretation of tongues interprets person B's tongue speaking, how can we go about discerning whether the interpretation is genuine or made-up? How can we know whether B's tongue speaking is genuine and A's interpretation is also genuine?

There are some things that make it easier, but ultimately the leaders of a church should be deciding if it is genuine or not.

Some tips:

1) is it Biblical? If it is proclaiming something that is unbiblical either the tongue or the interpretation is wrong.
2) prophecy is God speaking to man, but tongues is man speaking to God. If the interpretation is more like prophecy either the interpreter has got it wrong or they are twisting it (perhaps unwittingly) to make it sound like prophecy.
3) if the interpreter has a history of getting it wrong, then be extremely wary. Likewise be wary of those who love the sound of their own voices. The best interpretations I've heard over the year usually come from someone who doesn't normally speak in tongues or interpretation.

 

[lsume]

When person A claiming to have the gift of interpretation of tongues interprets person B's tongue speaking, how can we go about discerning whether the interpretation is genuine or made-up? How can we know whether B's tongue speaking is genuine and A's interpretation is also genuine?

John.6[45] It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
The fear of The Lord is the beginning of wisdom. It is a great blessing to know the fear of The Lord. When He teaches you, that is when you will know The Truth. The still small voice is amazing.

1. 
   

 

[ViaCrucis]

BTW, what natural language do you know of that when spoken others can understand in multiple different languages?

Those who understood language A, heard those speaking language A, because that was the language they were speaking by the power of the Spirit. The 120 that had assembled on Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out, were enabled by the power of the Spirit to speak the languages of the various pilgrims who had come to Jerusalem for Pentecost (Shavu'ot).

If a group of 120 people suddenly were able to speak French, German, Indonesian, etc and this happened at a time when there was a gathering of French, German, Indonesian, etc speakers that would be the same thing being described as occurring here in the Acts of the Apostles.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[topher694]

Those who understood language A, heard those speaking language A, because that was the language they were speaking by the power of the Spirit. The 120 that had assembled on Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out, were enabled by the power of the Spirit to speak the languages of the various pilgrims who had come to Jerusalem for Pentecost (Shavu'ot).

If a group of 120 people suddenly were able to speak French, German, Indonesian, etc and this happened at a time when there was a gathering of French, German, Indonesian, etc speakers that would be the same thing being described as occurring here in the Acts of the Apostles.

-CryptoLutheran

The point is, it had to be a supernatural language for that to have worked.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The point is, it had to be a supernatural language for that to have worked.

Supernaturally enabled/given, yes.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[topher694]

Supernaturally enabled/given, yes.

-CryptoLutheran

And either supernaturally spoken or heard or both.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What if it is an ancient language, such as Sanskrit, or an undocumented dialect spoken by a lost jungle tribe?

Maybe the interpreter is actually a person who speaks that language ? Afterall, all through scripture we read of accounts where there is someone present who understood the language. Most importantly, in Acts when the Holy Spirit was poured out, there were over a dozen languages spoken and there was a person present in that room who understood one or more of the languages. So dont be fooled into thinking there are ancient tribal languages being spoken so no one can confirm the gift. God is not the author of confusion. Be blessed.

 

[Davy]

When person A claiming to have the gift of interpretation of tongues interprets person B's tongue speaking, how can we go about discerning whether the interpretation is genuine or made-up? How can we know whether B's tongue speaking is genuine and A's interpretation is also genuine?

1 Corinthians 14 with the idea of "unknown tongue" (KJV) doesn't mean what you're thinking. Paul was talking about KNOWN languages of the world, not the cloven tongue of Pentecost.

Further, the word "unknown" as "unknown tongue" in 1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) is NOT... in the Greek New Testament manuscripts. The KJV translators added that word "unknown" (see your Strong's Exhaustive Concordance).


Proof Of The Cloven Tongue:

In Acts 2, the cloven tongue went out to all present from many different nations and languages. When the Apostle's spoke, the cloven tongue manifested to the people there, IN THEIR OWN DIALECTS of their birth languages!

The TRUE cloven tongue per God's Word, when it is spoken, EVERYONE present UNDERSTANDS in their OWN language of birth.


What Paul Was Speaking Of:

That cloven tongue of Acts 2 is NOT what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 14.

Paul was teaching about someone who has a different 'known' language (Greek glossa) comes into the Church, and has a Message, then hope there is someone present who can speak that foreign language and then interpret for the congregation. That is not about interpreting some "unknown tongue" gibberish that no one else can understand.

1 Cor 14:16-18
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
KJV

Can the cloven tongue by The Holy Spirit be something that is 'learned'? NO! But Paul above is pointing to someone with a language in the room of one who is "unlearned", which isn't about the cloven tongue. It's about known languages of the world, a language that is learned.

Same with, "I speak with tongues more than ye all", that's not about the cloven tongue, it's about known languages of the world, for Apostle Paul spoke Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, etc. Paul was a scholar.


The true sign of the cloven tongue is like Acts 2. If you go to a people of a different language than yours, and no one is there to interpret, then pray they might understand you, then speak. If the cloven tongue manifests to them, then each person present will hear in their own dialect of the town of their birth. God knows how we speak and hear.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

When person A claiming to have the gift of interpretation of tongues interprets person B's tongue speaking, how can we go about discerning whether the interpretation is genuine or made-up? How can we know whether B's tongue speaking is genuine and A's interpretation is also genuine?

Start with the assumption that both are false. Then list what you would expect if both were true.

Off the Top of my head:
1. Length of speaking would match length of interpretation.
2. Visual tells will match.
3. Voice tells will match.
4. Neither will be about something going on in their church like support our missionaries on missionaries weekend.
5. Someone who speaks the unknown language would be there and would verify the interpretation.
6. It would not divide the church.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[topher694]

Start with the assumption that both are false. Then list what you would expect if both were true.

Off the Top of my head:
1. Length of speaking would match length of interpretation.
2. Visual tells will match.
3. Voice tells will match.
4. Neither will be about something going on in their church like support our missionaries on missionaries weekend.
5. Someone who speaks the unknown language would be there and would verify the interpretation.
6. It would not divide the church.

Yeah, all these are wrong, except #6

 

[tturt]

Be advised that posters on this forum is only for those who believe in God's spiritual gifts and they're for today according to forum rules.

Plus more importantly "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." I COR 14:39

Your study needed to start off with that verse.

 

[Davy]

Grace And Peace, Precious friend. You seem to say
"the gift of tongues" is FOR us today, Correct?

My only "experience" was a one-time visit to an assembly where they
"All spoke at once." As a young babe in CHRIST, at the time, I did not
understand what was "going on."

Later, as a more maturing, growing "student" of God's Perfect Word,
I developed this "study" - IF I may offer it for your Prayerful/Careful
consideration and input?:

God's 3 gifts Superseded BY God's Three Gifts!:

Surely, we All do "know And Understand" And agree
(1 Cor 1:9-10 KJB!), on This Important Verse Of God!, Correct?:

"And Now Abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;
but the greatest of these is charity!" (1 Cor 13:13 KJB!)

But, how about This "trio" of gifts - Are they for us today?:

"Modern Day" prophet(ess)? Speaking in tongues? Word of knowledge?

There is, I believe, a Very Simple Solution, found In The
Perfect and Pure Word of God, The Bible,
Prayerfully and Carefully studied:

“...Though I have The Gift Of Prophecy, and understand all
mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that
I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing…”

Does God Still Have these in “effect” Today?

What Saith The Pure, Preserved, Precious And Perfect Scriptures?

“...Charity suffereth long...(+14 others!)...Charity never faileth“

“BUT Whether there be PROPHECIES, they SHALL FAIL;
whether there be TONGUES, they SHALL CEASE; whether there
be KNOWLEDGE, it shall VANISH AWAY. For we know in part, and
we PROPHESY IN PART.”

The Prophecies SHALL FAIL? Who believes that? Surely not the Prophecy
“experts”? Or, one could ask, when?

At the Coming End Of Time {Perfect New Heavens and New Earth?},
when there are No more “prophecies” to be fulfilled? Or:

At The Second Coming of CHRIST, Who Is “Perfect”
But, with still More Remaining prophecies To Be Fulfilled?

Then, we wonder, what does this mean?

“But when That Which Is Perfect Is Come, then
that which is In Part SHALL BE DONE AWAY.”
(1 Cor 13:1-10 KJB!)

Has not "That Which IS PERFECT" Already COME?

IF so, Then “that which is in part” = the “gift of tongues” has Ceased,
the gift of “the word of knowledge” has Vanished, And the “gift of
prophecy” has Failed! IF so, then we kindly ask:

(1) Does this not explain Why missionaries Have To Study/Learn
"foreign" languages, Before departing to the country God Called
them to serve?

(2) where does This Truth leave Ellen White and Seventh Day Adventism?
And, ALL Other so-called “prophets/prophetesses”?

(3) What about All The "watchmen prophecies" and failing "dreams and
visions Date-Setters" of The Great GRACE Departure { aka "rapture" }?...

...Need Bible Confirmation, correct?:

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to The Dispensation
of God Which is given to me for you, to fulfil [ Complete! Or Fill Up!! ]
The Word of God (Perfect?)"
(Col 1:25 cp Psa 12:6-7; 138:2 KJB!)

If “That ( "neuter" gender ) Which is Perfect" is Not The
PerfectCHRIST ( "Masculine" Gender ), Then Is This not The
Only Other Choice?:

The Pure and Perfect Written Word of God, HIS
Precious And Holy Scriptures?

Further Biblical Confirmation!:

"The Words Of The LORD Are Pure Words: As silver tried in a
furnace of earth, Purified Seven Times! THOU Shalt Keep Them,
O LORD, THOU Shalt Preserve Them from this generation For Ever!"
( Psa 12:6-7 KJB! )

"I will worship toward THY holy temple, and praise THY Name for
THY Lovingkindness and for THY Truth: for THOU Hast Magnified
Thy WORD Above All THY {Perfect?} Name!" (Psa 138:2 KJB!)

Therefore, HIS Word Is The Absolute Final Authority! And
God Warns! All "who think Above, or, Exceed or Add to IT!":

"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to
myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us

NOT TO THINK ABOVE THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN,

that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."
(1 Cor 4:6 KJB!)

...Finally, IF TRUTH!:

(4) WHY would any "child Of God" today "settle for Less" { “that which
is in Part!” }, When they "Could Have ALL" Of What God Has For them?:

"Who also declared unto us your LOVE In The Spirit. For this cause
we also, since the day we heard it , do not cease to pray for you,
and to desire that ye Might Be Filled With The Knowledge Of HIS
Will In All Wisdom And Spiritual Understanding!" (Col 1:8-9!)

"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together In
LOVE, and Unto All Riches Of The Full Assurance Of Understanding,
to the acknowledgement Of The Mystery of God, And Of The Father,
And Of CHRIST!"
(Col 2:2!) Amen?

Thus, the humble "Confusion Clearing Conclusion" of this study, is that:

The trio of Expired gifts of "prophecy, word of knowledge, And
speaking in tongues" Have Been Superseded Today, By God,
With The "Remaining," And "NOW Abiding" THREE Gifts" Of:

"faith, hope, And love In Grace, Pure GRACE!"

And, The GREATEST Of These Is LOVE!!
+
”All the law Is FULFILLED In ONE WORD: LOVE! thy neighbor!”
(Gal 5:14; Rom 13:8-10 KJB!) Amen?
-------------------------------------------
Blessed Be The Name of The LORD, And HIS Perfect, Pure, And
"Exalted Above All His Name," WORD For Ever And Ever!! Amen?

“To The Praise Of The Glory Of HIS {Amazing} GRACE!”

Nah..., most of that is based on the 'false' assumption of what the deceived claim the cloven tongue of Pentecost is. A gibberish spoken that no one can understand is not... the true cloven tongue spoken on Pentecost by the Apostles with everyone present hearing in their dialect of language of birth. And The NT Greek does spell out that they heard them speak their 'dialektos' (i.e. dialects of their languages).

When I said God knows how we speak and hear, I meant it, because before the Genesis tower of Babel event, all peoples spoke one language, one tongue. And per Zephaniah 3, God said He is going to return us all to that one tongue. Most likely that's what the 'cloven tongue' of Pentecost is. And it definitely is not... going to go away, nor fail.

As a matter of fact, per Mark 13 Lord Jesus showed for the end of this world His servants will be delivered up to councils and synagogues to give a Testimony for Him. And He said to not premeditate what we will say in that 'hour', but speak what The Holy Spirit gives us. So the cloven tongue of Pentecost, which everyone present understands when they hear it, is going to manifest through Christ's servants during the tribulation. That idea of it failing is simply a doctrine of men, not Bible Scripture, for what I said here is written even in Joel 2 about the end just prior to the day of the Lord, which is what Peter quoted in Acts 2 on Pentecost about the cloven tongue.

Likewise with prophesying by The Holy Spirit, that isn't going to fail for this world either, as that specifically is what God's two witnesses in Jerusalem for the coming tribulation is going to do, even for 1260 days before they are killed by the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit. So prophesying against the beast is NOT... going to fail for this time either.

As for knowledge, that's not going to fail either, for that certainly didn't end with the "mystery" that Apostle Paul taught. For our times today at the end of this world, we are to be studying the Signs Lord Jesus gave His Church for the end of the world leading up to His coming on the "day of the Lord". He commanded His servants for the end to WATCH! and it means watching and being aware of the Signs of the end He gave. He gave those in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation 6.

 

[topher694]

Oh goodie, more expert analysis from people who have zero experience in the gift.

 

[Davy]

This topic is about discernment, and that is what I am providing... FROM GOD'S WORD by The Holy Spirit.

Those who keep trying to suggest that 1 Corinthians 14 is about the cloven tongue of Pentecost mislead brethren away... from what is actually written. PROPHESYING per Apostle Paul in that Chapter means TEACHING, not speaking an unknown tongue.

1 Cor 14:1-6
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

The idea of Paul's to "prophesy" means to TEACH with understanding.


2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Paul shows that speaking a tongue that no one understands is NOT the idea of prophesying.


3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
KJV

In all these cases of 'tongue' or 'tongues' is this chapter, in the Greek, it is the Greek word 'glossa' which means language. The word "unknown" in the KJV is an added word!

Prophesying is about teaching with understanding in known languages that people can understand. It's that simple, and that is the real subject Paul is teaching in 1 Corinthians 14.