Differences between ROCOR and Patriarchal Parishes, outside of just structure?

[TheLostCoin]

Due to how wonderful America's jurisdictional situation can be in the Eastern Orthodox Church, there exists three different jurisdictions in which Russian Orthodox Churches can exist under - ROCOR, OCA, and Moscow Patriarchal Parishes. As far as I can tell, ROCOR is under the direct ownership of Moscow but administratively is rather independent; the OCA is completely, administratively independent from Moscow, and the Patriarchal Parishes operate directly under Moscow as vicarial parishes.

I just moved into a new area, and have just this past Sunday attended a ROCOR Church. While it was a pleasant experience with a nice community, and I can see myself settling down there (while in Slavonic, with my Russian knowledge and past Byzantine experience I was able to figure out what was going on in the Liturgy, and the sermon and Scripture readings were in English and in Russian; and the community has more successfully syncretized the Russian and English speaking people together - most people speak Russian and English together, and there are people who are my age), it was a rather small Church, which has its benefits and negatives, and before I settle down, I want to explore some of the other Orthodox Churches nearby.

For some reason that I cannot fathom, where I am located, there are two Patriarchal Parishes that are right next to each other, that's just about as far away from the ROCOR Church I attended, but both seem to be much larger Churches, and I'll probably attend at least attend one of them, if not both. One seems a bit friendlier to English speakers than Russian speakers if the website is anything to go by - so maybe that's it - but I don't know, it's weird that two parishes of the same Jurisdiction with different Priests are stationed just blocks away from each other.

So, with that being said, what are the differences between the two structures - ROCOR and Patriarchal Parishes? Are there generally differences in liturgical praxis, in terms of ideology, in terms of converts vs. cradles composition, in terms of relationships with other parishes in their structure, in terms of Pan-Orthodoxy, in terms of Seminary and formation, in terms of moral and dogmatic leniency, etc.?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't know, but I imagine not much. ROCOR might be tied more to the Empire.

 

[Not David]

I don't know, but I imagine not much. ROCOR might be tied more to the Empire.

The Empire?

 

[ArmyMatt]

The Empire?

the Russian Empire.

 

[TheLostCoin]

The Empire?

Just in case you don't know, ROCOR schism'd from the Russian Orthodox Church after the October Revolution, when the Patriarch - Patriarch Sergius - signed a rather infamous declaration which made the Church subordinate to the Soviet government and basically said Communism is compatible with Orthodoxy, and subsequently, in 2005 - I think - ROCOR re-entered communion with Moscow, with Moscow as their Patriarch.

 

[TheLostCoin]

the Russian Empire.

It's funny you say that. The Church I went to had a carpet with the Byzantine / Russian Eagle.

 

[Not David]

Just in case you don't know, ROCOR schism'd from the Russian Orthodox Church after the October Revolution, when the Patriarch - Patriarch Sergius - signed a rather infamous declaration which made the Church subordinate to the Soviet government and basically said Communism is compatible with Orthodoxy, and subsequently, in 2005 - I think - ROCOR re-entered communion with Moscow, with Moscow as their Patriarch.

I heard that they used to be a "True Orthodox" Church and that they were in communion with other "Genuine Orthodox " Churches.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It's funny you say that. The Church I went to had a carpet with the Byzantine / Russian Eagle.

that's not just a ROCOR thing

 

[AMM]

that's not just a ROCOR thing

The Greek church in my town has that too. I actually read somewhere that the two headed eagle is a symbol of Christ? But not sure about the details

 

[ArmyMatt]

The Greek church in my town has that too. I actually read somewhere that the two headed eagle is a symbol of Christ? But not sure about the details

it's the imperial symbol of the (ideally) synergy between the Church and State, and how both work together to better man and bring salvation.

 

[AMM]

it's the imperial symbol of the (ideally) synergy between the Church and State, and how both work together to better man and bring salvation.

Interesting. Is it like Augustine’s “two cities”? City of man provides stability and peace for the church and for people to practice their faith, City of God provides salvation and grace for people to live in heaven? Or is it different from that?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Interesting. Is it like Augustine’s “two cities”? City of man provides stability and peace for the church and for people to practice their faith, City of God provides salvation and grace for people to live in heaven? Or is it different from that?

something like that, yes.

 

[TheLostCoin]

I heard that they used to be a "True Orthodox" Church and that they were in communion with other "Genuine Orthodox " Churches.

Going off memory, there was a time in ROCOR’s history where they entered into communion with a Genuine Orthodox Church, but they weren’t such a Church from the start; at the same time, unlike the Genuine Orthodox, ROCOR was always in communion with a canonical Church - for example, Serbia.

Saint John Maximovitch was a member of ROCOR, which every Orthodox Church recognizes as a Saint, as was Seraphim Rose, who has his own cult; so surely it wasn’t a schismatic, graceless Church.

And regardless, the Church seems friendly at schismatics who want to make amends, even if ROCOR were (which it isn't) a schismatic church - the American Carpatho Russian Diocese was basically founded by Ruthenian Catholics who didn't feel comfortable in Roman Catholic dioceses (as at the time, not only was there severe "ethno-phyletism" and outright racism by many American Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church, but the Eastern Rites were seriously looked down upon as "inferior" and often had problems of severe Latinization. This is one of the few good things that Vatican II fixed).

 

[Knee V]

As to there being two Greek parishes right near each other, there may have originally been one parish, and it may have gotten too big for their building. Having two parishes instead of building a new larger temple for one parish may have been the better solution at the time.

 

[Not David]

Going off memory, there was a time in ROCOR’s history where they entered into communion with a Genuine Orthodox Church, but they weren’t such a Church from the start; at the same time, unlike the Genuine Orthodox, ROCOR was always in communion with a canonical Church - for example, Serbia.

Saint John Maximovitch was a member of ROCOR, which every Orthodox Church recognizes as a Saint, as was Seraphim Rose, who has his own cult; so surely it wasn’t a schismatic, graceless Church.

And regardless, the Church seems friendly at schismatics who want to make amends, even if ROCOR were (which it isn't) a schismatic church - the American Carpatho Russian Diocese was basically founded by Ruthenian Catholics who didn't feel comfortable in Roman Catholic dioceses (as at the time, not only was there severe "ethno-phyletism" and outright racism by many American Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church, but the Eastern Rites were seriously looked down upon as "inferior" and often had problems of severe Latinization. This is one of the few good things that Vatican II fixed).

Looks weird, so was the Genuine Orthodox Church,they were in communion with, canonical by association?