Difference between "your faith" & "spiritual gifts"

[Si_monfaith]

Lord said "your faith (in Me) has healed you" to the woman who had the issue of blood for 12 years. He didn't say "My faith healed you" or "I healed you".

However, were the innumerable people who have been healed in the last 100 years or maybe from the time of Smith Wigglesworth ever told that it was "their faith in Christ" rather than the "spiritual gift" of the miracle worker which healed them instrumentally?

Post healing, do the recipients of healing know what to say? Was it "their faith" or the "spiritual gift" of the miracle worker which was instrumental in their healing?

Did any miracle worker who exercised spiritual gifts ever say what indeed was the instrument in their healing activities?

The reason is, usually even those who apparently were healed by "their faith", start trusting in the miracle worker rather than understand that it was indeed their faith in Christ which did actually heal them.

Or maybe some miracle workers suppress the fact that most healing incidents indeed happened due to the faith of their recipients rather than their spiritual gift, in order to make the recipients loyal towards them and thus be benefited financially?

Your input is welcome.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Lord said "your faith (in Me) has healed you" to the woman who had the issue of blood for 12 years. He didn't say "My faith healed you" or "I healed you".

However, were the innumerable people who have been healed in the last 100 years or maybe from the time of Smith Wigglesworth ever told that it was "their faith in Christ" rather than the "spiritual gift" of the miracle worker which healed them instrumentally?

Post healing, do the recipients of healing know what to say? Was it "their faith" or the "spiritual gift" of the miracle worker which was instrumental in their healing?

Did any miracle worker who exercised spiritual gifts ever say what indeed was the instrument in their healing activities?

The reason is, usually even those who apparently were healed by "their faith", start trusting in the miracle worker rather than understand that it was indeed their faith in Christ which did actually heal them.

Or maybe some miracle workers suppress the fact that most healing incidents indeed happened due to the faith of their recipients rather than their spiritual gift, in order to make the recipients loyal towards them and thus be benefited financially?

Your input is welcome.

Well - some people were raised from the dead. So faith wasn't needed from the dead person in those cases.
Possibly, in some of those cases the faith required was needed from the person who asked for the miracle on behalf of the person who was dead.

Then we hear of Peter healing a lame man - he had asked them for some money and he replied silver and gold I do not have but what I do have.....

Sure - its possible to think the miracle worker was responsible. Some people have spiritual gifts of healing so in a way it does make some sense to go to the person who is known to produce healing's - that is their calling and ministry. The Spiritually gifted person should always preach Christ and not himself as the source of power. The Bible says Freely give as you have Freely received - so making money out of the Gospel is a Big No No. Then again , workers do deserve some pay or they wouldn't have the time to be as busy doing the work as they would like to be.

In this case you can recognise them by their Fruits. Do they make a lot of money or make sacrifices. Are they humble or are they strutting on the stage? Who is being promoted - Christ or themselves?

 

[disciple Clint]

Lord said "your faith (in Me) has healed you" to the woman who had the issue of blood for 12 years. He didn't say "My faith healed you" or "I healed you".

However, were the innumerable people who have been healed in the last 100 years or maybe from the time of Smith Wigglesworth ever told that it was "their faith in Christ" rather than the "spiritual gift" of the miracle worker which healed them instrumentally?

Post healing, do the recipients of healing know what to say? Was it "their faith" or the "spiritual gift" of the miracle worker which was instrumental in their healing?

Did any miracle worker who exercised spiritual gifts ever say what indeed was the instrument in their healing activities?

The reason is, usually even those who apparently were healed by "their faith", start trusting in the miracle worker rather than understand that it was indeed their faith in Christ which did actually heal them.

Or maybe some miracle workers suppress the fact that most healing incidents indeed happened due to the faith of their recipients rather than their spiritual gift, in order to make the recipients loyal towards them and thus be benefited financially?

Your input is welcome.

Only God can heal. So it is not your faith that heals you and it is not faith or gifts of the healer that heals you, it is God and God only. Why God gives favor to some in the way of gifts or healing is known only to Him. The Bible clearly indicates that some people who were healed did not have any faith and some did.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Well - some people were raised from the dead. So faith wasn't needed from the dead person in those cases.
Possibly, in some of those cases the faith required was needed from the person who asked for the miracle on behalf of the person who was dead.

Then we hear of Peter healing a lame man - he had asked them for some money and he replied silver and gold I do not have but what I do have.....

Sure - its possible to think the miracle worker was responsible. Some people have spiritual gifts of healing so in a way it does make some sense to go to the person who is known to produce healing's - that is their calling and ministry. The Spiritually gifted person should always preach Christ and not himself as the source of power. The Bible says Freely give as you have Freely received - so making money out of the Gospel is a Big No No. Then again , workers do deserve some pay or they wouldn't have the time to be as busy doing the work as they would like to be.

In this case you can recognise them by their Fruits. Do they make a lot of money or make sacrifices. Are they humble or are they strutting on the stage? Who is being promoted - Christ or themselves?

Jesus said he had no place to lay his head - he didn't own his own home.
Elisha lived on a rooftop of someone's else's house

Some well known Evangelists live in mansions and fly in their own personal Jets - Big Difference !

 

[Richard T]

Most of the ministers I have heard are teachers of faith too, that it is the individual believers faith in God that brings healing. Sometimes though the Holy Spirit, will utilize a gift or have others assist in this area. This is especially true I believe in new Christians or those that are weak. Still, the act of grace of having the gift operate, though should create encouragement and not bring a dependence on ministers. Perhaps a more fleshly Christian would try to get by on the faith of others for years, but at any point that could fail, and certainly is perilous.
As far as miracles, they are too few in the USA, and seem to be rather rare. I think many peple who operate in the gifts know when their gifts operate. Annointing flows out through hands and at times can be tangible. One minister I know says God allows him to see into the person's life, and the Holy Spirit reveals the healing that is needed. Another, K.E. Hagin, says that when someone in the healing line if someone had a demon God would do something with the feeling in his hands (something like that) so that he would know to minister deliverance. Of course there are diversities of gifts and diversities of operations so your question is very apt. No true minister should focus the glory on themselves if someone is healed or receives a miracle as a result of their ministry. Everything is God's grace, no one does anything on their own.

 

[JohnC2]

Faith is obedience based on knowledge and experience. For example - look at Numbers 14. God expected the people to believe that He would take care of them as they entered the land and that even though the road ahead looked difficult - they were under His protection.

Why did God expect them to believe that? Well - he had delivered them through the plagues of Egypt. He had delivered them through the death of the firstborn.... AND He had delivered them from the Egyptian army at the crossing of the Red Sea.

This had happened in the prior 18 months - so God expected them to remember this when looking forward into a new thing. This is faith - Obedience based on the foundation of proof, experience, and knowledge...

Spiritual “Gifts” are something different.

The Greek word used means an unmerited present sort of like a Christmas gift or a birthday present. The sense is something cool that is a present from God to you... So for example - perhaps God gives you a healing in your life. Maybe He gives you a prophecy for your own guidance or an understanding of something. Maybe God gives you special comfort... Or perhaps he gives you a dose of extra charisma to push something important along to final completion... Those are gifts. You didn’t earn them or deserve them. You don’t “exercise” them as a regular thing. It’s just something cool God does for you because He loves you.

 

[RDKirk]

Spiritual “Gifts” are something different.

The Greek word used means an unmerited present sort of like a Christmas gift or a birthday present. The sense is something cool that is a present from God to you... So for example - perhaps God gives you a healing in your life. Maybe He gives you a prophecy for your own guidance or an understanding of something. Maybe God gives you special comfort... Or perhaps he gives you a dose of extra charisma to push something important along to final completion... Those are gifts. You didn’t earn them or deserve them. You don’t “exercise” them as a regular thing. It’s just something cool God does for you because He loves you.

I think there is an inherent error in characterizing the "spirituals" (as the Greek doesn't have a noun) as a "gift."

I see why "gift" was the initial translation, inasmuch as they are, as you said, "unmerited" as compared to a "wage."

However, the problem with "like a Christmas gift or a birthday present" is that those things are luxuries and frivolities, and that is how a lot of Christians consider them.

"Spiritual gifts" are not luxuries and frivolities, they are tools intended for the building of the Church and the spreading of the Gospel.

Spiritual gifts are issued by the Holy Spirit to Christians the way the Army issues a rifle to one solder, a wrench to another, and a cookpot to yet another. The soldiers don't "merit" those tools, nor do they pay for them. Each soldier is equipped for his role in performing the mission of the commander.

The Holy Spirit does not provide spiritual gifts to us because we're such awesome folk. He provides spiritual gifts for the building of the Body and the execution of the Mission.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Jesus said he had no place to lay his head - he didn't own his own home.
Elisha lived on a rooftop of someone's else's house

Some well known Evangelists live in mansions and fly in their own personal Jets - Big Difference !

Was it ok for God to bless Abraham with gold, men servants etc?

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Was it ok for God to bless Abraham with gold, men servants etc?

God did bless Abraham - but in my example the Evangelists blessed themselves?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Every healing event in my family has been that of faith and the Word. That has been over a period of 48 years.
Thanks for asking.

 

[Si_monfaith]

God did bless Abraham - but in my example the Evangelists blessed themselves?

Abraham accepted wealth from king of egypt and Gerar. Can't evangelists do this?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Every healing event in my family has been that of faith and the Word. That has been over a period of 48 years.
Thanks for asking.

How about miracle workers? Do they ever clarify as to whose faith was involved in the healing? The worker's faith or recipient's faith?

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Abraham accepted wealth from king of egypt and Gerar. Can't evangelists do this?

There's a purpose behind every question...
Are you trying to justify yourself at all?

 

[Si_monfaith]

There's a purpose behind every question...
Are you trying to justify yourself at all?

Both Abraham and me are justified not by our actions but only by the self sacrifice of Lord Jesus.

Riches don't accuse anyone.

The question is, whether miracle workers declare, as Lord Jesus did, by saying that the faith of many of the the recipients healed them.

If the recipients were healed by "their" faith and the miracle worker suppressed that truth, the recipients might start trusting in the miracle worker rather than trust wholly in Jesus.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Both Abraham and me are justified not by our actions but only by the self sacrifice of Lord Jesus.

Riches don't accuse anyone.

The question is, whether miracle workers declare, as Lord Jesus did, by saying that the faith of many of the the recipients healed them.

If the recipients were healed by "their" faith and the miracle worker suppressed that truth, the recipients might start trusting in the miracle worker rather than trust wholly in Jesus.

OK - I just didn't understand why you turned that into a money question.

A person who can heal the sick must have learned the lessons in Faith themselves otherwise they might not be able to lead the people to a point where they can get a healing. Jesus was very good at this - he knew how to draw the faith out of people if they had some.

The healer himself would have been taught by God to lead people and that process is pretty much to direct them to have Faith in Jesus. Now - if he starts to boast in his own ability and does not give Christ the credit then he has become a blind guide - he himself is not acting in Faith which is basically to be dependent on God and believe in his word.

This is the problem he would now face....

James 3:1
Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

Now if he really is a Believer then this is what will happen next.....

Hebrews 12:8
If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.

There could be a period of time from A to B to allow the preacher/healer to repent but eventually - discipline will be given. If non is given then the preacher is a fake.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Jesus said he had no place to lay his head - he didn't own his own home.
Elisha lived on a rooftop of someone's else's house

Some well known Evangelists live in mansions and fly in their own personal Jets - Big Difference !

The matter in question isn't about jets or mansions but "your faith which saves (heals, prospers etc)" versus "the gift of faith which confirms the gospel".

Is the "Gift of faith to confirm the gospel" predominantly to minister to the unbelievers?

Is it a good habit for believers to seek after miracles & ministers who have the "gift of faith to confirm the gospel"?

If believers keep on seeking miracles & miracle workers, does it mean they haven't yet heard the faith producing gospel?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Faith is obedience based on knowledge and experience. For example - look at Numbers 14. God expected the people to believe that He would take care of them as they entered the land and that even though the road ahead looked difficult - they were under His protection.

Why did God expect them to believe that? Well - he had delivered them through the plagues of Egypt. He had delivered them through the death of the firstborn.... AND He had delivered them from the Egyptian army at the crossing of the Red Sea.

This had happened in the prior 18 months - so God expected them to remember this when looking forward into a new thing. This is faith - Obedience based on the foundation of proof, experience, and knowledge...

Spiritual “Gifts” are something different.

The Greek word used means an unmerited present sort of like a Christmas gift or a birthday present. The sense is something cool that is a present from God to you... So for example - perhaps God gives you a healing in your life. Maybe He gives you a prophecy for your own guidance or an understanding of something. Maybe God gives you special comfort... Or perhaps he gives you a dose of extra charisma to push something important along to final completion... Those are gifts. You didn’t earn them or deserve them. You don’t “exercise” them as a regular thing. It’s just something cool God does for you because He loves you.

Maybe He gives you a prophecy for your own guidance

Does one need the "gift of prophecy" for guidance? Wasn't Abraham guided by "your faith" that is, his own God-given personal faith for guidance to Canaan though he knew not the destination?

Isn't the "gift of prophecy" simply to minister to unbelievers to confirm the gospel to them so the gospel passes faith to them in turn?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Only God can heal. So it is not your faith that heals you and it is not faith or gifts of the healer that heals you, it is God and God only. Why God gives favor to some in the way of gifts or healing is known only to Him. The Bible clearly indicates that some people who were healed did not have any faith and some did.

Only God can heal

Is God's healing based only on Christ's death & resurrection?

Why God gives favor to some in the way of gifts

Is it to minister to unbelievers to have a confirmation regarding the gospel?

The Bible clearly indicates that some people who were healed did not have any faith and some

Do you see the difference between healing as a miracle & healing as a blessing?

 

[now faith]

Does one need the "gift of prophecy" for guidance? Wasn't Abraham guided by "your faith" that is, his own God-given personal faith for guidance to Canaan though he knew not the destination?

Isn't the "gift of prophecy" simply to minister to unbelievers to confirm the gospel to them so the gospel passes faith to them in turn?

That would be the Evangelest.
Romans 12: 2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5. So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 6. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7. Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8. Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. 9. Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Acts 8: 5. Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6. And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

Phillip was called to the desert to preach Salvation to the Ethiopian,
Peter and John finished the work in Samaria by laying on of hands for those who were believers to be Baptised in the Holy Spirit.
Evangelest travel, it is a Spiritual gift.

We have wittnessed great works of Salvation to thousands , by modern day Evangelist.


Acts 9: 17. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

I would consider Ananias a Prophet, though it is unspoken.
He recieved instructions from God ,to deliver a word and perform healing of Paul's blindness.

I personally do not see a change from then to now.
The Spirtuals as RD mentioned have not changed.
The first time I learned the Term Spirtuals was from a Dad Hagin sermon..
I am neutral on that point, due to there being a diversity of Gifts , yet all from one Spirit.

 

[now faith]

Jets are great tools for Evangelst, and Prophets.
Just saying...