Difference between amillennialism & preterism

yedida

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Could someone please tell me the differences between amillennialism and preterism (partial vs full as well)?
I've tried googling and found several websites, but truth be told, I got so lost in it that I quit still not really knowing any answers.
Thanks in advance.
Just dumb it down royally, please.
 

CryptoLutheran

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Amillennialism is a specific position in regard to the Millennium, it says that the Millennium isn't intended to describe a literal period of time, but rather describes Christ's reign at the Father's right hand until the time of His coming.

Preterism is a position in regard to prophetic interpretation, sometimes contrasted with Futurism and Historicism. Historicism would argue, for example, that what St. John the Revelator wrote has had an ongoing fulfillment since his day to ours, the earliest Protestants were Historicists, which led Luther, Calvin (et al) to conclude that the Papacy fulfilled the eschatological role of Antichrist and Beast (not the person of the Pope, per se, but rather the office of Pope). Futurists would posit that all or most of everything in the Revelation will be fulfilled at a heretofore unspecified point in the future, Dispensationalists fall in this category (and they are also Premillennialists).

Preterism, on the other hand, states that much (partial) or all (full) of what St. John wrote, or what Jesus spoke about in the Olivet Discourse (etc) had its fulfillment, or was primarily about, stuff that took place in the first century and the time of John himself. Hyper-Preterism goes so far as to argue that the Parousia--the Second Coming--occurred in 70 AD when the Roman army destroyed the Temple, they believe this was a visitation of Judgment, the return or appearing of Christ, against the old order represented by Jerusalem and the Temple. Hyper-Preterism is regarded as heretical by mainstream Christianity as the Historic Creeds are clear that the Lord will return at the end to raise the dead bodily (Hyper-Preterism denies the resurrection of the body, which is, again, heretical).

The two involve different aspects of eschatology, one could be both Amillennial and a Preterist, one could be Amillennial but not a Preterist. Luther, Calvin and other early Protestants were Amillennialists and Historicists, one can also be Amillennial and a Futurist.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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yedida

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Amillennialism is a specific position in regard to the Millennium, it says that the Millennium isn't intended to describe a literal period of time, but rather describes Christ's reign at the Father's right hand until the time of His coming.

Preterism is a position in regard to prophetic interpretation, sometimes contrasted with Futurism and Historicism. Historicism would argue, for example, that what St. John the Revelator wrote has had an ongoing fulfillment since his day to ours, the earliest Protestants were Historicists, which led Luther, Calvin (et al) to conclude that the Papacy fulfilled the eschatological role of Antichrist and Beast (not the person of the Pope, per se, but rather the office of Pope). Futurists would posit that all or most of everything in the Revelation will be fulfilled at a heretofore unspecified point in the future, Dispensationalists fall in this category (and they are also Premillennialists).

Preterism, on the other hand, states that much (partial) or all (full) of what St. John wrote, or what Jesus spoke about in the Olivet Discourse (etc) had its fulfillment, or was primarily about, stuff that took place in the first century and the time of John himself. Hyper-Preterism goes so far as to argue that the Parousia--the Second Coming--occurred in 70 AD when the Roman army destroyed the Temple, they believe this was a visitation of Judgment, the return or appearing of Christ, against the old order represented by Jerusalem and the Temple. Hyper-Preterism is regarded as heretical by mainstream Christianity as the Historic Creeds are clear that the Lord will return at the end to raise the dead bodily (Hyper-Preterism denies the resurrection of the body, which is, again, heretical).

The two involve different aspects of eschatology, one could be both Amillennial and a Preterist, one could be Amillennial but not a Preterist. Luther, Calvin and other early Protestants were Amillennialists and Historicists, one can also be Amillennial and a Futurist.

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you for a very easy to understand description. It seems it must have been a hyper-preterist website that I'd found - I got completely lost in it, just didn't make a bit of sense to me. (I'm not sure I agree with the other two but they are at least plausible. I'll have to look further into them. I don't really have a firm stance on the subject as of yet.)
It looks like I have one more question.
I don't think I understand what a futurist believes. I've seen that term here on CF before but cannot recall ever hearing it before I joined. Could you possibly explain that? I promise I won't bother you further. :)
Thanks in advance.
 
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CryptoLutheran

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Thank you for a very easy to understand description. It seems it must have been a hyper-preterist website that I'd found - I got completely lost in it, just didn't make a bit of sense to me. (I'm not sure I agree with the other two but they are at least plausible. I'll have to look further into them. I don't really have a firm stance on the subject as of yet.)
It looks like I have one more question.
I don't think I understand what a futurist believes. I've seen that term here on CF before but cannot recall ever hearing it before I joined. Could you possibly explain that? I promise I won't bother you further. :)
Thanks in advance.

Futurism is the position that much of the prophetic and/or apocalyptic material in Scripture (such as stuff in Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, the Revelation of St. John, Ezekiel and many of the Prophets) has its fulfillment in the future. A Futurist reads John in the Revelation talking about the Beast and sees the Beast as a future Antichrist (as opposed to Nero or Domitian (which would be more Preterist) or the Papacy (which would be Historicist)), a Futurist would read Jesus' talking about the "abomination that causes desolation" and sees this as referring to the future Antichrist desolating a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem.

A Historicist sees these things as having been fulfilled throughout the last two thousand years at different times, such as the early Protestants seeing the Papacy as fulfilling the role of "Man of Sin" from Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians and the Beast from Revelation 13. Seventh Day Adventists are Historicists, perhaps even moreso than the historic Protestant churches (Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc).

A Preterist would see these things as having happened in the past, for example a Preterist would probably see Jesus mentioning the "abomination that causes desolation" and see its fulfillment when the Romans desolated the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, a Preterist would understand the Revelation's "Beast" to likely be a reference to Nero and/or Domitian and/or the imperial power in Rome in general. This is the position I take on these things.

It's also worthwhile to point out that there's a fourth position called Idealism, which interprets the Revelation not as being about events in the late first century (Preterism), a prophetic account of history (Historicism) or a prophecy concerning the end of time (Futurism) but as being a purely spiritual text dealing with the spiritual struggle of Christians in the world as we await the return of Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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yedida

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Futurism is the position that much of the prophetic and/or apocalyptic material in Scripture (such as stuff in Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, the Revelation of St. John, Ezekiel and many of the Prophets) has its fulfillment in the future. A Futurist reads John in the Revelation talking about the Beast and sees the Beast as a future Antichrist (as opposed to Nero or Domitian (which would be more Preterist) or the Papacy (which would be Historicist)), a Futurist would read Jesus' talking about the "abomination that causes desolation" and sees this as referring to the future Antichrist desolating a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem.

A Historicist sees these things as having been fulfilled throughout the last two thousand years at different times, such as the early Protestants seeing the Papacy as fulfilling the role of "Man of Sin" from Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians and the Beast from Revelation 13. Seventh Day Adventists are Historicists, perhaps even moreso than the historic Protestant churches (Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc).

A Preterist would see these things as having happened in the past, for example a Preterist would probably see Jesus mentioning the "abomination that causes desolation" and see its fulfillment when the Romans desolated the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, a Preterist would understand the Revelation's "Beast" to likely be a reference to Nero and/or Domitian and/or the imperial power in Rome in general. This is the position I take on these things.

It's also worthwhile to point out that there's a fourth position called Idealism, which interprets the Revelation not as being about events in the late first century (Preterism), a prophetic account of history (Historicism) or a prophecy concerning the end of time (Futurism) but as being a purely spiritual text dealing with the spiritual struggle of Christians in the world as we await the return of Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you so much CL. I know you put some time and effort into these two posts for me and I really appreciate it. I'd done some web surfing and just couldn't really nail down the differences.
Again, except for here in CF, I can't recall ever hearing the term "futurist,' but I guess that's where I stand (though amillennialism has some points that make a lot of sense - still need more study in that area).
Thank again.
 
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Biblewriter

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Thank you for a very easy to understand description. It seems it must have been a hyper-preterist website that I'd found - I got completely lost in it, just didn't make a bit of sense to me. (I'm not sure I agree with the other two but they are at least plausible. I'll have to look further into them. I don't really have a firm stance on the subject as of yet.)
It looks like I have one more question.
I don't think I understand what a futurist believes. I've seen that term here on CF before but cannot recall ever hearing it before I joined. Could you possibly explain that? I promise I won't bother you further. :)
Thanks in advance.

For a general review of much of the futurist perspective, read the current thread "Scripture prophesies a future temporary earthly kingdom."
 
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heymikey80

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I appreciate CL's last post

Also keep in mind, "partial preterism" is very different from "full preterism", and is generally partly futurist (but can embrace just about any mix of ideas). Partial preterism says that while many prophecies stated in the First Century should be examined first as to whether they were fulfilled close to that time. But with enough support they can be extended throughout the history of the Christians, and we're still in the middle somewhere. Many if not most partial preterists say that the next thing to occur in prophetic fulfillment is Jesus' return. Partial preterism says Jesus was primarily talking to His First Century hearers, so we should examine what He says from a First Century perspective, primarily.
 
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yedida

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Thanks Biblewriter and Heymikey. I'm pretty sure it was a hyper-preterist website that got me soooo confused and (I'll even say) dumbfounded!! I'm not often at a loss for words!!

As it turns out, I knew what "futurist" is, I'd just never heard the term used before. (Guess I've lived a rather sheltered life!!)

I don't get too deep into eschatology (I reckon figuring out today and how to live it is enough without adding difficulties to it that are out of my control), but if I had to describe my beliefs right now, I'd fall somewhere near being a futurist-partial preterist with just a hint of amillennialism - now that's a mouthful!! ;)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I appreciate CL's last post

Also keep in mind, "partial preterism" is very different from "full preterism", and is generally partly futurist (but can embrace just about any mix of ideas). Partial preterism says that while many prophecies stated in the First Century should be examined first as to whether they were fulfilled close to that time. But with enough support they can be extended throughout the history of the Christians, and we're still in the middle somewhere. Many if not most partial preterists say that the next thing to occur in prophetic fulfillment is Jesus' return. Partial preterism says Jesus was primarily talking to His First Century hearers, so we should examine what He says from a First Century perspective, primarily.
Thanks Biblewriter and Heymikey. I'm pretty sure it was a hyper-preterist website that got me soooo confused and (I'll even say) dumbfounded!! I'm not often at a loss for words!!

As it turns out, I knew what "futurist" is, I'd just never heard the term used before. (Guess I've lived a rather sheltered life!!)

I don't get too deep into eschatology (I reckon figuring out today and how to live it is enough without adding difficulties to it that are out of my control), but if I had to describe my beliefs right now, I'd fall somewhere near being a futurist-partial preterist with just a hint of amillennialism - now that's a mouthful!! ;)
This partial-preterist site does a good job at refuting the "hyper-preterist" view :thumbsup:

http://www.preteristsite.com/docs/pucketttorpedo1.html

Sinking the Ship of "Full Preterism": Torpedo #1 Some Unfinished Business
Was the destruction of ' the only "end" the New Testament talked about?
Did the year AD 70 mark the end of the Biblical story? Some say so.
 
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yedida

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LittleLambofJesus

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Thanks, I'll bookmark it. Always ready for a good read!!
Your welcome. There is much diversity in the preterist camp from what I have seen :sorry:
 
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Notrash

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Amillennialism does seem to view the current church age as the millenial reign of Christ.

Preterists can differ in their understanding.
Some view the references to 1000 yrs in 2 Peter 3 and Revelation as the period of a mans lifespan. Prior to the flood a mans lifespan was a 1000 yrs. This was also the period of a 'day' of creation.

Is 61 is one example of where a mans 'day' is also his "acceptable year". In Is 61 I think its generally reguarding a 40 yr effective adult lifespan. This is also typed by the age and time period of David's reign [being 40 yrs from age 30 to 70].

Thus, there are some of those who view revelation as fulfilled who believe that the 1000 yrs is referring to a 40 yr lifespan, or what is as important as 1000 yrs [and eternal soul] especially in the face of Nero's guards. It seems like his/her whole lifetime [1000 yrs] while going through the time, but it may have been only a few yrs or to some of the first disciples a full 40 yrs. The outcome is the restoration and protection of the new heavens, [new ordinances of love, adoption, etc] and the new domain of the individuals life and soul. This is compared against both the old heavens/domain of the mosaic covenant and the old individual conditional law of sin/death [seperation from God] of the original Garden. And it was also separate from Roman rule.

The revelation of Christ then includes the concepts of the transferal of God's kingdom from the corporal mosaic [now viewed as a babylonian religion] to the individual, unbreakable restoration and protection of fellowship with Father/Spirit in the new Garden. Rom 8:2. For the law of the spirit of the life of Christ has set me free from the law of sin/death.

As the veil in the temple was torn, so also in a sense were the flaming swords guarding the [now New] Garden of the latter parts of Rev.

Since there is a restoration to a new eden spritually speaking; the concept of 1000 yrs [millenium] being as a mans lifetime [70 or 40 or 100yrs] in Rev 20 is supported. Likewise, In 2 peter 3, where he declares in @ 60 AD that the judgment is not being postponed, he says know ye not that with God 1000 yrs are as a day [lifespan] and a day as 1000 yrs. I think he is implying that the judgment was to come upon judea within what would have been the normal lifespan of Christ typed as 40 yrs through King David. And it did come as the conditional corporal elements of the mosaic law and covenant heavens and earth 'melted' away' and were triumphed over.

The original readers of the letters would have understood them differently than we, especially depending on when they recieved them.
 
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Notrash

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This partial-preterist site does a good job at refuting the "hyper-preterist" view :thumbsup:

http://www.preteristsite.com/docs/pucketttorpedo1.html

Sinking the Ship of "Full Preterism": Torpedo #1 Some Unfinished Business
Was the destruction of ' the only "end" the New Testament talked about?
Did the year AD 70 mark the end of the Biblical story? Some say so.

Some things to disagree and interact with on that article especially when he gets to Matt 5.
Jesus came to fulfill the law including bringing the prophesied judgement and the latter end against it that were recorded in the law.. Not one jot or tittle would be spared.

In the beatitudes he [like John] brought the restoration of individual accountability and service to God and fellow man as the new way. Whoever shall teach and do these "LESSER" commandments.... shall be 'great'.... etc.

It would be as if Jesus was saying:
BUT, though I seem to be mr nicey nice; don't think I've come to stop the law and it's latter ends.. I've not come to end but FULFILL.

The concept of 'upholding or establishing the law' is taken from Romans and refers to establishing the law of justification [and freedom] by faith; not the law of Moses.
 
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Biblewriter

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It looks like I have one more question.
I don't think I understand what a futurist believes. I've seen that term here on CF before but cannot recall ever hearing it before I joined. Could you possibly explain that? I promise I won't bother you further. :)
Thanks in advance.

Futurism is simply the belief that much of Bible prophecy remains to be fulfilled at some time in the future. (That is why it is called futurism.)

Within the futurist camp you will find Amillennialists (those that believe the millennium was only figurative, and is happening now) and Premillennialists (those that believe that Christ will return before the millennium.) Premillennialists include Pre-tribulationists (those that believe that the Lord will remove the church from the earth before the tribulation,) Mid-tribulationists (those that believe that the Lord will remove the church from the earth in the middle of the tribulation) Pre-wrathers (those that believe that the Lord will remove the church just before He begins tp pour out his wrath of the earth in the last part of the tribulation,) and Post-tribbers (those who believe that the Lord will not remove the church from the earth before He comes in power and glory.)

There are also many other smaller groups of opinions varying even more.

But ask any question you like. You will get as many as ten different answers to most of them.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Could someone please tell me the differences between amillennialism and preterism (partial vs full as well)?
I've tried googling and found several websites, but truth be told, I got so lost in it that I quit still not really knowing any answers.
Thanks in advance.
Just dumb it down royally, please.
Amillennialism is a specific position in regard to the Millennium, it says that the Millennium isn't intended to describe a literal period of time, but rather describes Christ's reign at the Father's right hand until the time of His coming.

Preterism is a position in regard to prophetic interpretation, sometimes contrasted with Futurism and Historicism. Historicism would argue, for example, that what St. John the Revelator wrote has had an ongoing fulfillment since his day to ours, the earliest Protestants were Historicists, which led Luther, Calvin (et al) to conclude that the Papacy fulfilled the eschatological role of Antichrist and Beast (not the person of the Pope, per se, but rather the office of Pope). Futurists would posit that all or most of everything in the Revelation will be fulfilled at a heretofore unspecified point in the future, Dispensationalists fall in this category (and they are also Premillennialists).

Preterism, on the other hand, states that much (partial) or all (full) of what St. John wrote, or what Jesus spoke about in the Olivet Discourse (etc) had its fulfillment, or was primarily about, stuff that took place in the first century and the time of John himself. Hyper-Preterism goes so far as to argue that the Parousia--the Second Coming--occurred in 70 AD when the Roman army destroyed the Temple, they believe this was a visitation of Judgment, the return or appearing of Christ, against the old order represented by Jerusalem and the Temple. Hyper-Preterism is regarded as heretical by mainstream Christianity as the Historic Creeds are clear that the Lord will return at the end to raise the dead bodily (Hyper-Preterism denies the resurrection of the body, which is, again, heretical).

The two involve different aspects of eschatology, one could be both Amillennial and a Preterist, one could be Amillennial but not a Preterist. Luther, Calvin and other early Protestants were Amillennialists and Historicists, one can also be Amillennial and a Futurist.

-CryptoLutheran
Futurism is the position that much of the prophetic and/or apocalyptic material in Scripture (such as stuff in Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, the Revelation of St. John, Ezekiel and many of the Prophets) has its fulfillment in the future. A Futurist reads John in the Revelation talking about the Beast and sees the Beast as a future Antichrist (as opposed to Nero or Domitian (which would be more Preterist) or the Papacy (which would be Historicist)), a Futurist would read Jesus' talking about the "abomination that causes desolation" and sees this as referring to the future Antichrist desolating a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem.

A Historicist sees these things as having been fulfilled throughout the last two thousand years at different times, such as the early Protestants seeing the Papacy as fulfilling the role of "Man of Sin" from Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians and the Beast from Revelation 13. Seventh Day Adventists are Historicists, perhaps even moreso than the historic Protestant churches (Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc).

A Preterist would see these things as having happened in the past, for example a Preterist would probably see Jesus mentioning the "abomination that causes desolation" and see its fulfillment when the Romans desolated the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, a Preterist would understand the Revelation's "Beast" to likely be a reference to Nero and/or Domitian and/or the imperial power in Rome in general. This is the position I take on these things.

It's also worthwhile to point out that there's a fourth position called Idealism, which interprets the Revelation not as being about events in the late first century (Preterism), a prophetic account of history (Historicism) or a prophecy concerning the end of time (Futurism) but as being a purely spiritual text dealing with the spiritual struggle of Christians in the world as we await the return of Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran
I have heard of the "Idealism" view, but never really looked into it. Sounds like a view I may be really interested in.

Thank you for enlightening us on the different eschatological views within Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism_(Christian_eschatology)

Idealism (also called the spiritual approach, the allegorical approach, the nonliteral approach, and many other names) in Christian eschatology is an interpretation of the Book of Revelation that sees all of the imagery of the book as symbols.[1]
Jacob Taubes writes that idealist eschatology came about as Renaissance thinkers began to doubt that the Kingdom of Heaven had been established on earth, or would be established, but still believed in its establishment.[2] Rather than the Kingdom of Heaven being present in society, it is established subjectively for the individual.[3]...................

It is distinct from Preterism, Futurism and Historicism in that it does not see any of the prophecies (except in some cases the Second Coming, and Final Judgment) as being fulfilled in a literal, physical, earthly sense either in the past, present or future,[10] and that to interpret the eschatological portions of the Bible in a historical or future-historical fashion is an erroneous understanding.[11]


.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Thank you so much CL. I know you put some time and effort into these two posts for me and I really appreciate it. I'd done some web surfing and just couldn't really nail down the differences.

Again, except for here in CF, I can't recall ever hearing the term "futurist,' but I guess that's where I stand (though amillennialism has some points that make a lot of sense - still need more study in that area).
Thank again.
Both Preterism and Amillism make more biblecal sense than futurism.
Let's face it, all of the prophecies in the OT and NT was indeed FUTURE for them and that is not refuted.......

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Matthew 23:35
that upon ye may come all the righteous blood being poured out on the land,
from the blood of Abel the righteous, unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar: [Luke 11:51]

Revelation 16:6
because blood of saints and prophets they did pour out,
and blood to them Thou didst give to drink, for they are worthy;'

Mat 24:34
Amen I am saying to ye not no may be passing away this generation
until ALL these may be becoming/genhtai <1096> (5638).

Reve 16:17
and the seventh Messenger pours out the bowl of him into the air and came out great Voice from the Sanctuary of the heaven from the throne saying "it hath become"/gegonen <1096> (5754).
[Reve 21:6]
Revelation 21:6
and He said to me "it hath become!/gegonen <1096> (5754)!
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End;

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source! That’s, IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation. That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited.
How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!


.
 
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Biblewriter

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To accept Preterism. Amilennism, Historism, or Idealism requires an assumption that God simply did not mean the very many explicitly stated promises He made in the Old Testament to the ancient nation of Israel, the the ancient sub-nations of Judah and Ephraim, and to the twelve tribes of Israel, as well as to the city of Jerusalem, the land of Judea, and the land (as opposed to the nation) of Israel. There are literally hundreds of such promises, and they are made in explicitly stated language. This type of interpretation also ignores the fact that the prophecies that have already been fulfilled have been fulfilled literally, in such precise detail that unbelievers claim that their very accuracy proves they could not have been written before the prophesied events took place. One example of this is the first 35 verses of Daniel 11. But that is only one of many such prophecies.
 
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Copperhead

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It is sooo much simpler to just read the Bible for what it says than getting into the quicksand of trying to find mystical or allegorical interpretations for verses that don't quite fit with one's world view of how they think it should be. And one needs to be on guard that arrogance or pride doesn't skew an interpretation. Let the Bible say what it does, and I typically will use the principle of Mosaic law that any issue can only be confirmed by the testimony of two witnesses. In this case, the two witnesses of both the Old and New testaments. Any sound prophecy or spiritual interpretation in the NT should be confirmed to in the OT. Just one might have to dig a little to find it. Remember, the early Church only had the OT. The Bereans searched the scriptures daily (only the OT) to confirm everything Paul taught them. And that methodology was commended.

I concur Biblewriter. Daniel 9 for instance, Sir Robert Anderson, along with some help from the British observatory, worked out the math on the 69 weeks and found that from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to Jesus' riding into Jerusalem on the donkey was exact right down to the very day. The margin for error in the prophecy was zero. There is no reason to assume that the 70th week will also not be fulfilled in the exact same manner. The details of how Anderson worked all this out is in his book "The Coming Prince".

When reading of the scripture makes sense, seek no other sense. Preterism and Amillennialism requires really allegorizing the scripture to extremes. But there is a maxim in computer data processing: if you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything.
 
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BABerean2

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The details of how Anderson worked all this out is in his book "The Coming Prince".

I have a copy of the book.

Anderson mentions in the book that the Jews made periodic corrections in their calendar and then proceeded to ignore this fact in the rest of the book.

Anderson was also C.I. Scofield's friend.

Anderson "worked it out" to agree with the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.

Recent archeological data has revealed that Herod the Great died in 4 BC.

This fact has moved the date of the Cross to about 30 AD.

So much for the 360 day calendar...



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