Did you really choose to believe?

[John Hyperspace]

I wanted to ask if you believe that you chose your beliefs, as opposed to, being compelled by the "evidence" to belief? As I look at my own self, I will admit that I did not choose what I believe, but that as I studied and understood, my belief was, in fact, compelled - that which I believe was irresistible to me.

But if you believe that you chose what to believe- could you tell me what were the alternative choices of belief that you could have chosen to believe instead of what you currently believe? For instance, if you are Catholic, could you have chosen to believe what Lutherans believe? If you are Christian, could you have chosen to believe as the atheist believes? Athiests, could you believe what Christians believe?

This question is open to all of every belief. So, did you choose what you believe? And, if so, what alternatives could you have chosen to believe, and why did you reject those alternatives in order to choose what you chose to believe?

As a bonus question for Christians: do you believe Lazarus chose to be resurrected from the dead? Or did Christ call him forth according to the choice of Christ?

 

[ewq1938]

As a bonus question for Christians: do you believe Lazarus chose to be resurrected from the dead? Or did Christ call him forth according to the choice of Christ?

Christ choose to do it, because he lovd Lazarus and his family but also so people would believe in him:

Joh 11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
Joh 11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
Joh 11:45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

Lazarus had no choice in the matter IMO, but nor would he have protested.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I think belief is a choice. I think levels of belief arrive in relationship with what the individual credits as evidence they can accept intellectually.

I think many Christians always seek to find things to support their faith or belief.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I wanted to ask if you believe that you chose your beliefs, as opposed to, being compelled by the "evidence" to belief?

Depends on what "Belief" you're talking about. Since I'm NOT an adherant of ANY of the major "Systematics" (by CHOICE) then as an "Eclectic" I Pick and Choose - based on my understanding of the data presented in the Bible. SOme of what I believe would be claimed by the "Arminians", and Some by the "Calvies".

Becoming SAVED/Born again was DEFINITLY MY CHOICE - but I also understood that the Commitment HAD TO BE MADE while under the Conviction is SIN By the Holy Spirit (which is the beginning of SAVING FAITH). There was NO CHOICE TO BELIEVE - (since under conviction of the Holy Spirit ONE KNOWS THE TRUTH totally without Doubt). The ONLY choice is whether to Surrender to it, or run away back into death, as I had done several times in the past.

Sorting out Doctrine, is quite a different issue. NO ORGANIZED CHURCH SYSTEM has everything right, and once you realize THAT, you no longer have to take ANYTHING they say at "Face Value". Maybe they're "Accurate" in what they say, and maybe they're NOT. If you're NOT familiar with the Bible - you're "Fair Game" for deception.

Since I'm a "Tongues Speaker", there are places that I, and my "input"/"Teaching" would be as welcome as an SS trooper at a Bar-mitzva. The Assemblies of God would be a "Natural choice" for a "tongues Speaker", and so I'm a Member of one, but the Assemblies of God DOES NOT define me, or my belief package. Turns out (fortunately) that I have no SERIOUS disagreements with their "package".

As a bonus question for Christians: do you believe Lazarus chose to be resurrected from the dead?

During the days when Lazarus was absent from the Body, there's no data about what (if anything) he Experienced/Discussed with anybody he might have encountered. Consequently I have NO BELIEF about it. Couldn't care less.

Or did Christ call him forth according to the choice of Christ?

Jesus Didn't "do things on His own" (as he states clearly), and His obvious intent was to call Lazarus Back - according to that which HE KNEW to be Father's Will, and that which Father would empower. SO the only "CHOICE" would be God's CHOICE to resurrect him as a testimony of GOD'S Power.

Simple as that.

 

[Greg J.]

If you believe that "belief" is another way of saying "have faith in," no you can't grant yourself belief. However, note that some people are already ready to believe when they hear a testimony or see/hear about evidence. (One way God calls people like this is those with a soft heart.) What a person can do is feed and nurture whatever belief they do have. One can hold on to it and refuse to let other evidence dislodge what he already believes. One can behave as if the evidence is true, which God will reward when the behavior is something he desires.

The idea that you just need to believe to be saved is a little off. That is a description of someone who is saved (he "believes"), but the idea itself doesn't convey how to get that belief. Belief is something that God grants as the product of humility and evidence. We are in control of to what degree we are willing to give up our own ideas and beliefs and accept Jesus' as true. We are in control of how much and what kind of evidence we seek and learn about.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Depends on what "Belief" you're talking about.

When our words are abstract, they can be quite tricky, for sure. I'm talking about something like this:

Did you choose to believe that 2+2=4?
Did you choose to believe that the sky is blue?
Did you choose to believe that George Washington was president of America?
Did you choose to believe that God exists?

Or, did the "evidence" compel your belief, and you had no "power of your own" to choose in these matters?

Since I'm NOT an adherant of ANY of the major "Systematics" (by CHOICE) then as an "Eclectic" I Pick and Choose - based on my understanding of the data presented in the Bible. SOme of what I believe would be claimed by the "Arminians", and Some by the "Calvies".

You say "based on my understanding of the data presented": then, does this mean that you actually have no "power of your own" to "choose" what you believe? But that your understanding of the "data presented" forces you down a specific road of belief?

For instance, can you "choose" right now to, not believe what you believe, and instead, "choose" to believe the doctrines of the Mormon church? Or, are you "forced" by "the data presented" to believe what you believe? Did you really "choose" not to adhere to any of the major systematics, or did "your understanding of the data presented" make that "choice" for you.

Do you believe that an atheist has "chosen" not to believe in God, or that they are "forced" by their "understanding of the data presented" into their beliefs, or, lack thereof.

Becoming SAVED/Born again was DEFINITLY MY CHOICE

Was it? Or, was it the only possible result of your "understanding of the presented data"? Can you choose to believe something different than what you currently believe. Can a Christian choose to be an atheist if he wishes? Note that I'm not asking "Can a Christian say the words 'I do not believe in God'?" but can he actually choose to believe it? Or will his mind still be saying to him "Yes, you do believe in God; the "evidence" as you understand it compels belief"?

Sorting out Doctrine, is quite a different issue. NO ORGANIZED CHURCH SYSTEM has everything right, and once you realize THAT, you no longer have to take ANYTHING they say at "Face Value". Maybe they're "Accurate" in what they say, and maybe they're NOT. If you're NOT familiar with the Bible - you're "Fair Game" for deception.

Complete agreement.

SO the only "CHOICE" would be God's CHOICE to resurrect him as a testimony of GOD'S Power.

Simple as that.

If Lazarus had no choice in whether or not to heed the command of Christ to come out of the physical death, does anyone have a choice in whether or not to heed the command of Christ to come out of the spiritual death? Do we choose, or does God choose?

I admit, I can see no other conclusion than that, everything we understand and believe and choose, is not of our own power. And when one asks, "Why doesn't the unbeliever believe?" or "Why won't the 'sinner' choose Christ?" the answer is, "Because he cannot do anything of his own power."

 

[John Hyperspace]

I think belief is a choice.

Can you choose not to believe that?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Can you choose not to believe that?

Of course. We're not born with faith. It is a choice.

 

[1213]

I wanted to ask if you believe that you chose your beliefs, as opposed to, being compelled by the "evidence" to belief? ...

I think I have had many times situation when I have had to decide do I want to believe this and be faithful to God, or do I just reject the Bible. And till this day I have always decided “ok, I can’t know absolutely, but I believe it because I think it is good, if I am wrong so what, it is no loss for me”. But I think believing is not the point, understanding is. Bible has great wisdom that I see valuable, even if God would not exist. However, according to the Bible, God is love. Nowadays I know love, so it would be really difficult for me to deny Love.

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

But when I look at this world, it is no wonder if people don’t believe in God, when Love is not well seen in this world that is full of hate and evilness.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Of course. We're not born with faith. It is a choice.

Really? Why did you choose to believe that belief is a choice? Instead of choosing to believe that belief is not a choice?

Can you also choose - right now, if you chose - to believe that God doesn't exist? Or is choosing unbelief impossible for you? If so, why?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Really? Why did you choose to believe that belief is a choice? Instead of choosing to believe that belief is not a choice?

Can you also choose - right now, if you chose - to believe that God doesn't exist? Or is choosing unbelief impossible for you? If so, why?

Prove belief isn't a choice.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Prove belief isn't a choice.

I'm not really trying to 'prove' anything. But if you were to ask me, "Why do you believe what you believe" I would reply "Because the evidence compels my belief": my belief is, emergent, from my, understanding of the 'evidence'; I can't really "choose" what I believe, I can only be compelled to belief through evidence which, to my understanding, demonstrates the way "things are"

This explains why people who don't believe in God often say "Where is the evidence of God?" Because it is evidence that compels belief. They are not saying "There is evidence of God; but I choose not to believe." No one is choosing their beliefs, they are simply being compeled by their understanding to go down a specific path.

If a person believed the earth was flat, they do not "choose" to believe it, it is because the evidence (their own experience and understanding) compel it. Yet, if I were to take them into orbit on a spaceship and open a window and they could see the earth as a globe: they wouldn't "choose" to believe the earth is a sphere, they would have no choice at all in the matter: the evidence would compel their belief.

Even in the bible, this is what we continually are shown, belief being compelled by "great signs and miracles". When Jesus appears to the apostles after the resurrection, the apostles didn't "choose" to believe, their belief was compelled by what evidence was being presented to them.

Thomas doubted (as did they all)- but he wasn't "choosing" not to believe; he simply wasn't compelled by any evidence until Jesus appeared and presented His body for inspection. Thomas did not then "choose" to believe, he was positively compelled to believe.

People are often accused of "choosing" to not be saved, or "choosing" the wrong religion, or "choosing" the wrong belief- but is this really the case? I propose, it is not the case, and that all people are unable to believe anything other than that which the "evidence" compels them to believe. Just like I know that it is impossible for me to believe anything other than what I believe: it is not possible for me to "choose" to not believe in God; and it is equally impossible for an atheist to "choose" to believe in God. Both require evidence to compel our belief. I have received this evidence is a sufficient manner that has caused my belief; the atheist has not yet received the evidence is a sufficient manner.

But this is why I am asking, can you choose not to believe in God? Can you choose to believe as the Muslim does? Can you choose to believe biblical teachings that you do not currently believe?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I'm not really trying to 'prove' anything. But if you were to ask me, "Why do you believe what you believe" I would reply "Because the evidence compels my belief": my belief is, emergent, from my, understanding of the 'evidence'; I can't really "choose" what I believe, I can only be compelled to belief through evidence which, to my understanding, demonstrates the way "things are"

This explains why people who don't believe in God often say "Where is the evidence of God?" Because it is evidence that compels belief. They are not saying "There is evidence of God; but I choose not to believe." No one is choosing their beliefs, they are simply being compeled by their understanding to go down a specific path.

If a person believed the earth was flat, they do not "choose" to believe it, it is because the evidence (their own experience and understanding) compel it. Yet, if I were to take them into orbit on a spaceship and open a window and they could see the earth as a globe: they wouldn't "choose" to believe the earth is a sphere, they would have no choice at all in the matter: the evidence would compel their belief.

Even in the bible, this is what we continually are shown, belief being compelled by "great signs and miracles". When Jesus appears to the apostles after the resurrection, the apostles didn't "choose" to believe, their belief was compelled by what evidence was being presented to them.

Thomas doubted (as did they all)- but he wasn't "choosing" not to believe; he simply wasn't compelled by any evidence until Jesus appeared and presented His body for inspection. Thomas did not then "choose" to believe, he was positively compelled to believe.

People are often accused of "choosing" to not be saved, or "choosing" the wrong religion, or "choosing" the wrong belief- but is this really the case? I propose, it is not the case, and that all people are unable to believe anything other than that which the "evidence" compels them to believe. Just like I know that it is impossible for me to believe anything other than what I believe: it is not possible for me to "choose" to not believe in God; and it is equally impossible for an atheist to "choose" to believe in God. Both require evidence to compel our belief. I have received this evidence is a sufficient manner that has caused my belief; the atheist has not yet received the evidence is a sufficient manner.

But this is why I am asking, can you choose not to believe in God? Can you choose to believe as the Muslim does? Can you choose to believe biblical teachings that you do not currently believe?

The point being, you choose to believe evidence you've reviewed is credible enough to garner belief about the evidence itself. And that then is able to inspire your belief in whatever the evidence you choose to accept provides as reasonable cause to engender faith.

 

[John Hyperspace]

The point being, you choose to believe evidence you've reviewed is credible enough to garner belief about the evidence itself. And that then is able to inspire your belief in whatever the evidence you choose to accept provides as reasonable cause to engender faith.

I cannot agree, as I have stated that my belief was compelled and not chosen. If you are able to choose what you believe, then I am now asking you to choose to believe that belief is not chosen. Can you do this? Or, I am asking you to believe what Catholics believe, instead of what you currently believe. Can you choose to do this? Or does this seem impossible to you, to choose to believe that which you do not believe?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I cannot agree, as I have stated that my belief was compelled and not chosen. If you are able to choose what you believe, then I am now asking you to choose to believe that belief is not chosen. Can you do this? Or, I am asking you to believe what Catholics believe, instead of what you currently believe. Can you choose to do this? Or does this seem impossible to you, to choose to believe that which you do not believe?

Wow. Well, I can't continue a discussion with someone that doesn't believe in cognitive content.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Wow. Well, I can't continue a discussion with someone that doesn't believe in cognitive content.

My apologies, I had no intent of arguing. Thank you for your words.

 

[TaylorSexton]

I don't think it's possible to believe anything without being persuaded by some kind of evidence. To say otherwise seems to me to go against the very definition of belief. I can't think of anything that is believed without persuasion by some kind of evidence. Can you?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't think it's possible to believe anything without being persuaded by some kind of evidence. To say otherwise seems to me to go against the very definition of belief. I can't think of anything that is believed without persuasion by some kind of evidence. Can you?

Growing up , I believed what I was taught.
I have found that almost everyone believes what they were taught , even contrary to the WORD OF GOD ,
or even if someone comes back from the dead and
tells them different.

No one is saved , though, except through JESUS, if they trust and rely on GOD and do what HE says to do to be saved.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Really? Why did you choose to believe that belief is a choice? Instead of choosing to believe that belief is not a choice?

Can you also choose - right now, if you chose - to believe that God doesn't exist? Or is choosing unbelief impossible for you? If so, why?

Why do you think belief is not a choice?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why do you think belief is not a choice?

There's 2 kingdoms on earth.
Everyone either chooses one,
or is stuck with one.