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Did YHWH lose the world to Satan by Jesus time...?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    How has he deceived us?
    He made us in his image and gave us the ability to choose - choose to love him, follow him and obey his words; or not. He did not force Adam to eat the fruit from the tree, Adam did that all on his own.
    God commanded Adam not to eat the fruit, but he knew that Adam would because he knows everything. He had already provided a Saviour and plan of salvation before we knew we needed one, 1 Peter 1:20, Genesis 3:15.
     
  2. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    great post!

    just one issue

    the Godhead is a Trinity in heaven = God + God's Word + God's Spirit (1 John 5:7)

    God's Word incarnate in Jesus' human nature on earth = Son = Word:Jesus

    YHWH God is the Father, as per the creed, "we believe in one God, the Father...

    which affirms the monarchy of the Father
     
  3. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I didn't say He did or was, I'm saying He wasn't, that He was being genuine...

    He would have had to "acting" or pretending to be a certain way, when He really wasn't, or at least that's the long and short of it...


    Wrong... Not the true Father... He predestined all and everything, even every little thing, from the very beginning, including any God or gods lesser than Him...

    Wrong again, unless your saying "God" didn't know they were going to do that way ahead of time, even planned for it to be and happen and go down that way... And, again, everything else and everyone else as well...

    Now your contradicting yourself, He either did or did not know, so which is it...?


    God the true Father did, yes, but not the Son, or a Son of His, that was chosen, or He chose to be our God... Those are YHWH and Jesus, and they could be the same person, and in that I mean, YHWH could have been like a young Jesus, or young God... Or there are other possibilities as well, and I'm trying to explore those...

    Did you look through the thread link I posted earlier in post #16...?

    God Bless!
     
  4. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I just got one thing to say, and that is: "Bless your hearts"...

    Unfortunately God won't let me get away with stupidity or ignorance anymore, my eyes are wide open, how bout yours...?

    But, "Bless your hearts"...

    God Bless!
     
  5. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    NIV First-Century Study Bible

    2:14 Dividing wall of hostility. This may be an allusion to the wall that separated the court of the Gentiles from the Jewish courts in the temple in Jerusalem (see first note on Ac 21:28)...clearly Paul was speaking about the “wall” of the Jewish covenantal boundary markers of the law.
     
  6. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    That's what I meant; sorry.
     
  7. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus was the human nature of the son, The Mystical Union of human flesh and human nature with the divine nature of God's word.

    But the word. And his son are not even the same person as the father. The father and the son are separate persons of the Godhead.
     
  8. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Pretty sure that's what the Bible means too :)
     
  9. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Except what I'm doing right now, and what I do on here could be considered "foolish" or a fools errand, but if one were to say that, they would have to say that about "Him" in His day as well...

    God Bless!
     
  10. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Trying to show or expose people to the truth is "not easy" by any means...

    I guess I can't expect everyone to be 100% completely neutral or objective though, or all put on their completely objective thinking caps or eye glasses on...

    Especially when it comes to matters like this or these...

    Fear used to hold me back, and there is "something" holding you guys all back as well, and it could be fear, but it might be something else, I don't know, but there is "something" in the way...

    God Bless!
     
  11. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    But, Bless your hearts and your little confused minds...

    Hey I've "been there", and not that long ago really, I was just trying to save you guys some time and trouble though...

    And trying to get this question answered as well, (OP. Title question) along the way, but I don't that anyone can really answer it or not though...?

    But, it's "key" right now to something I am trying to understand right now, that I don't know or don't think you guys are understanding though...

    Maybe your just not "there yet" which is why I also said I was trying to save you all some time and trouble, cause I've been there, been through it, ect...

    God Bless!
     
  12. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    But you said that if God was omniscient he would have been guilty of deceiving us.
    He IS omniscient - why has he been guilty of deception?

    In what way?

    Wrong - there is only ONE God; no others.
    What do you mean by "predestined"? If it's that we have to do certain things because God has already planned it; that's wrong too.
    All through the Bible the prophets said "choose". Choose whom you will serve; God or Baal. (Not that Baal was a god, but some believed that he was.)
    Jesus also told people to "come to me", Matthew 11:28, and "repent", Mark 1:15. If everything was planned for us and we would be saved, or not no matter what we did, there would have been no point in any of them saying that. They might as well have said, "live your life however you like. If God has decided to save you, he will; if not, there's nothing you can do about it."

    No, it's not wrong.
    God did not force Adam to eat the fruit; end of. He did not make Adam's hand take it from Eve and put it in his mouth - that was Adam's action.

    No I'm not.
    He didn't want Adam to eat the fruit - but he still knew that he would.

    A parent may say to a child, "I don't want you to eat that last biscuit", but still know that, when their back is turned, the child is likely to do just that.
    God knows everything that we do, are going to do or are likely to do. Even when he gives us a choice between 2 or more things; he knows what we will do.

    All of that is your idea/interpretation.
    The Bible, and orthodox Christian belief, says that there is ONE God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That Jesus, the Word, was with God in the beginning, God did not "choose his Son to be our God."
    Yahweh, or YHWH if your prefer, is the Hebrew name of God - the ONE God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is nothing at all in the Bible that even hints that Yahweh was a "young Jesus". No idea where you got that from, but it wasn't Scripture.

    No.
    I clicked briefly on the link,but the title of the thread was off putting, confusing and not Scriptural and I didn't have the time or energy to go into it.

    Christianity started out as a Jewish sect.
    The first of the 10 commandments, given to the Jews, says that there is only one God and we are not to have any other gods or make any idols. As a Jew, Jesus believed and followed the 10 commandments. He told us to, too, and told us to seek God above all else, Matthew 6:33.
    Genesis 1 tells us that in the beginning, God spoke the word and things were created.
    John 1:1-3 tells us that the Word was God and with God from the beginning and that God made all things through him. John 1:14 tells us that the Word became flesh.
    Colossians 1:15-16 tells us that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, that all things were created through, and for, him.

    There is ONE God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    OK, enough of "that", let's get back on topic shall we...?

    If YHWH did not lose the world to Satan by Jesus day then "what happened"...?

    And, don't you want to know "what happened", and I mean, "what really happened or took place with them or between them, or are you guys just not interested in that...?

    It's a "divine conspiracy" I tell you... And you don't want to know about it...? Just choose to remain blind...? Why...? Or maybe instead of "conspiracy", "mystery" might be a better word, but I think, or hope you know what I mean...

    I know you'll never see or know the truth of it, if you cannot be completely objective in this...

    God Bless!
     
  14. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Due to the way "He was" (acted, behaved, ect) in the OT (not how a truly always 100% fully omniscient being from the beginning would be... It's just simple reason, logic, and deduction about a being that would be or always was 100% fully omniscient from the beginning...

    And I'm saying that didn't happen because He wasn't (YHWH here in this context)...

    Look, a lot of you guys are still babies learning to crawl, let alone walk yet...

    And for that reason I'm not going to say much more... if you don't want to know about it, I guess you don't want to know about it, I guess...

    God Bless!
     
  15. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Except that what you're saying isn't truth.

    Why would anyone expect, or want, other Christians to be neutral or objective?
    We follow Jesus who IS the truth, John 14:6.
    We have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, John 16:13, living in us and have been born again by that Spirit, John 3:3.
    What's more, we are told to proclaim the Gospel, Matthew 28:19-20, witness to Jesus, Acts of the Apostles 1:8 and stand up for him. Why would you ask us to be neutral?

    Pride says, "I alone am right and you are all wrong".

    Your inability to see the truth?
    Sorry, but you have put forward a few unScriptural doctrines - that YHWH could be a "young Jesus", that God chose Jesus to be our God and that the Father is not YHWH - and you're telling us that there is "something" preventing us from accepting what you are saying?

    Maybe it's the Holy Spirit of truth who leads us into all truth and is preventing us from accepting false doctrine.
     
  16. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    No, don't GUESS.
    Read Scripture, study, pray for understanding, ask questions. But don't imply "I am right/know the truth; oh well; I guess you guys aren't mature enough yet."
    That's arrogance.
     
  17. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Not guessing, am going from scripture, and not arrogance (or pride or ego), but experience...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  18. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Look, your clearly offended, so let's just get back to the title question OK...?

    Can any of you guys answer it, or not...?

    As a reminder that question is/was: "Did YHWH lose the earth to Satan at some point before Jesus appeared on the scene"...

    Yes or no...? Then, after that, either way what follows, ect... How did that happen or not happen, ect, and why, ect...? And/or please explain your answer and the reasons for your answer or answers please, K...?

    God Bless!
     
  19. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    You'll never see or know the real truth (about anything) until you can be completely objective or neutral about the subject, and that's true in and with anything...

    God Bless!
     
  20. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    But there is nothing in Scripture which says that YHWH was "a young Jesus".
    And saying that there must be "something holding us back" or that we are not yet mature enough to hear, does sound like arrogance.
    Sorry, you probably don't mean it to sound that way, but the implication was; 'you guys may not be ready for meat yet'. Not, "I may be wrong" or "please show me if I have misunderstood Scripture", but - I guess you're not ready yet.

    Hasn't it occurred to you that you may be wrong?
     
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