Did Yahushua Eat With Unwashed Hands?

[Latuwr]

Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

My Yahushua said this as translated into the Greek language:

John 4:34
λέγει αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐμὸν βρῶμά ἐστιν ἵνα ποιήσω τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με καὶ τελειώσω αὐτοῦ τὸ ἔργον (mGNT)

Or perhaps this:

John 4:34
λέγει αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς Ἐμὸν βρῶμά ἐστιν ἵνα ποιῶ τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με καὶ τελειώσω αὐτοῦ τὸ ἔργον (TR)

In the two versions above, we are given the choice of translating the verb ποιέω as a first person singular aorist subjunctive, ποιήσω, as found in the mGNT, or we can translate the verb ποιέω as a first person singular present subjunctive, ποιῶ, as found in the TR version. "The aorist subjunctive refers to the action (of the verb) without saying anything about its continuance or repetition, while the present subjunctive refers to it (the action of the verb) as continuing or as being repeated." Quoted from A New Testament Greek For Beginners by J. Gresham Machen, page 131, Section 283.

I am inclined to accept here the mGNT translation because τελειώσω is the first person singular aorist subjunctive of τελειόω. This does not mean that the TR version is not the correct version. What this does mean is that we must take into account two different accounts of the same action of a Greek verb within the same sentence.

Now, Folks, I am going to ask those who may consider themselves to be qualified to answer this question:

Did Yahushua wash HIS Hands before HE ate HIS Food, or did Yahushua eat with unwashed hands?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Tolworth John]

The passage you quote has nothing to do with the washing of hands.
Jesus has not eaten any food, but has been evangelising the Samaritan women. read more of the passage.
Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi,'> eat something.”
32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”
33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”
34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will" of him who sent me to finish his work." 35 Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest." 36 Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reap is true. 38 I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”
I suspect that as a devout Jew Jesus would have performed all the rituals required of him.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Tolworth John,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Thank you for your response. You wrote this to me:

"I suspect that as a devout Jew Jesus would have performed all the rituals required of him."

I agree. Can we carry this fact into the spiritual fulfillment of the role that Yahushua saw in the Scriptures for HIMSELF? In other words, do the requirements of the Oral Law enter at all into HIS fulfillment of the what was written in the Law, and the Psalms, and the Prophets concerning HIM?

Psalms 39:7-9 LXX
7 θυσίαν καὶ προσφορὰν οὐκ ἠθέλησας, σῶμα δὲ κατηρτίσω μοι· ὁλοκαυτώματα καὶ περὶ ἁμαρτίας οὐκ ἐζήτησας.
8 τότε εἶπον· ἰδοὺ ἥκω, ἐν κεφαλίδι βιβλίου γέγραπται περὶ ἐμοῦ·
9 τοῦ ποιῆσαι τὸ θέλημά σου, ὁ Θεός μου, ἐβουλήθην καὶ τὸν νόμον σου ἐν μέσῳ τῆς κοιλίας μου.

Of course, the above Greek phrase: σῶμα δὲ κατηρτίσω μοι is quoted verbatim by the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews right here:

Hebrews 10:5
5 διο εισερχομενος εις τον κοσμον λεγει θυσιαν και προσφοραν ουκ ηθελησας σωμα δε κατηρτισω μοι

Now, I do realize that this basic idea that ELOHIM has completed a Body for Yahushua does not agree with the Hebrew Scriptures concerning this verse, but since both one version of the LXX and a verse in the New Testament seem to be in agreement, I am thinking that it may be good idea to explore this Body which has been completed and which comprises the fulfillment of the will of the ELOHIM!

Every body has a structure of bones. I have been listening and learning. What are the bones of Messiah Yahushua? And what is the flesh that is attached to HIS Bones? What exactly is the Blood of Messiah Yahushua? And how does HIS Blood carry LIFE to HIS Body? What do you think? Is it possible that the Oral Law does enter into this fulfillment of the Law in the midst of the Heart of Messiah Yahushua?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Tolworth John]

If you read the rest of that chapter of Hebrews you would find your question answered.
Paul is writing about the sacrifical system which was completed, finalised in Jesus's sacrifice of himself.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Tolworth John,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

If the Apostle Paul really believed that Yahushua was the completion of the sacrificial system as you say, then why would Paul say something like this:

Romans 15:16

16 εἰς τὸ εἶναί με λειτουργὸν Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ εἰς τὰ ἔθνη ἱερουργοῦντα τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ θεοῦ ἵνα γένηται ἡ προσφορὰ τῶν ἐθνῶν εὐπρόσδεκτος ἡγιασμένη ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ (mGNT)

Romans 15:16

16 εἰς τὸ εἶναί με λειτουργὸν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς τὰ ἔθνη ἱερουργοῦντα τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ θεοῦ ἵνα γένηται ἡ προσφορὰ τῶν ἐθνῶν εὐπρόσδεκτος ἡγιασμένη ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ (TR)

Please notice above the present participle of ἱερουργέω which is ἱερουργοῦντα. The Apostle Paul is acknowledging above by using this present participle that he is officiating as a priest the Gospel of the ELOHIM unto the Gentiles so that the OFFERING of the GENTILES..... How about that? If the OFFERING of the Body of Messiah Yahushua (Hebrews 10:10) completed or finalized the sacrificial system as you have written to me right here:

"Paul is writing about the sacrifical system which was completed, finalised in Jesus's sacrifice of himself."

Why then would Paul speak of the GENTILES as becoming an acceptable part of the OFFERING?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

P.S. Do you yourself think that the Apostle Paul performed the above spiritual work (his eating) without washing his hands in a spiritual sense?

 

[Tolworth John]

We speak of a 'sacrifice' of praise, so can't Paul also talk of offering those that Jesus has saved to God as an offering. They certainly cost Paul a lot.

 

[FrankDux]

Actually,. Hebrews states you are to not lay a foundation of things like ritual washing, again

Religious people seem to love to ignore the " Call to Maturity " ( Hebrews 6:2-4 )

And what's WITH capitalizing CERTAIN words ?

 

[Radrook]

Don’t know about Yahushua but I’m sure that Auhsuhay didn’t.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Tolworth John,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Yes, indeed, there exists a sacrifice of praise (Judah), that is, a thank offering. I believe that the greatest form of praise is imitation. We best praise a person when it can be seen that we have copied him or her in the activity of their lives. Yahushua is, therefore, best praised when we are enabled to become like HIM!

The OFFERING of the Body of Yahushua was a thank offering (see Leviticus 7:12, Luke 22:19). The Cup was also an OFFERING of thanksgiving (see Luke 22:17).

The vast majority of Christians have no idea that the Passover Lamb was itself a Peace Offering. Peace Offerings can be of three types (Leviticus 7:15-16) . They can be a Free Will Offering. They can be an Offering of Thanksgiving, and they can be offered in the Fulfillment of a Vow. The Paschal Offering of Messiah Yahushua was not a Free Will Peace Offering by Messiah (see Luke 22:42, Mark 14:26, and Matthew 26:39).

Can you see these things, Tolworth John?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Latuwr]

Hi FrankDux,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

I am extremely thankful for the slowness which this forum loads on my computer. This slowness give me plenty of time to consider my replies while, at the same time, I can look at all the ads promoted by this Christian Forum. Of course, my heart is not into the purchase of anything here, but it does not hurt to look, or does it? Anyways, it is like music in the background which helps me to contemplate and visualize what has been said and what I should say in response. Do not think that I am blaming in any way my slowness in responding to you on Christian Forums. I have already stated on another thread that I am overly slow.

You wrote to me this:

"Actually,. Hebrews states you are to not lay a foundation of things like ritual washing, again"

I am sorry, but I respectfully disagree. There exists a foundation of belief and activity which must be accepted by all who claim to be believers in My Messiah Yahushua. The primary ritual washing is baptism. If you have been baptized, then this washing is part of your foundation, and I am not in any way requesting that you be baptized again. However, there do exist in our foundation other washings or baptisms. Are these washings or baptisms a part of your foundation? If not, then your foundation is missing something, is it not?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hi Tolworth John,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

If the Apostle Paul really believed that Yahushua was the completion of the sacrificial system as you say, then why would Paul say something like this:

Romans 15:16

16 εἰς τὸ εἶναί με λειτουργὸν Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ εἰς τὰ ἔθνη ἱερουργοῦντα τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ θεοῦ ἵνα γένηται ἡ προσφορὰ τῶν ἐθνῶν εὐπρόσδεκτος ἡγιασμένη ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ (mGNT)

Romans 15:16

16 εἰς τὸ εἶναί με λειτουργὸν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς τὰ ἔθνη ἱερουργοῦντα τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ θεοῦ ἵνα γένηται ἡ προσφορὰ τῶν ἐθνῶν εὐπρόσδεκτος ἡγιασμένη ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ (TR)

Please notice above the present participle of ἱερουργέω which is ἱερουργοῦντα. The Apostle Paul is acknowledging above by using this present participle that he is officiating as a priest the Gospel of the ELOHIM unto the Gentiles so that the OFFERING of the GENTILES..... How about that? If the OFFERING of the Body of Messiah Yahushua (Hebrews 10:10) completed or finalized the sacrificial system as you have written to me right here:

"Paul is writing about the sacrifical system which was completed, finalised in Jesus's sacrifice of himself."

Why then would Paul speak of the GENTILES as becoming an acceptable part of the OFFERING?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

P.S. Do you yourself think that the Apostle Paul performed the above spiritual work (his eating) without washing his hands in a spiritual sense?

Paul's calling was to preach the Gospel to the uncircumcised, this He did, and by doing so the Gentiles were brought to Christ. That's really the only thing the verse means, it has nothing to do with qorbanot. The temple sacrificial system ended with its destruction in the year 70; for Christians the chief meaning and purpose of the entire sacrificial system was to point to Jesus Christ. Even if there were a temple, the sacrifices there would not matter, neither the priesthood, not any of it--because Christ and His Church is the Temple of God. All that came before were signs and shadows, the substance of which is Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

However, there do exist in our foundation other washings or baptisms.

There is one baptism, just as there is one Church, one God, one Lord, one Spirit, and one faith.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[redblue22]

too deep for me.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Hebrews was written to, well, Hebrews. These were Jewish believers. Any Jew would understand that there were many 'baptisms' in the life of any Jew. These are ritual immersions prescribed by the Torah and may include other immersions prescribed by later Jewish legal experts.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hebrews was written to, well, Hebrews. These were Jewish believers. Any Jew would understand that there were many 'baptisms' in the life of any Jew. These are ritual immersions prescribed by the Torah and may include other immersions prescribed by later Jewish legal experts.

This seems to be the historical interpretation, the "baptisms" of Hebrews 6:2 being the ritual washings or tevilah as proscribed in Judaism.

Arguably the chief point of the Epistle to the Hebrews seems to be to warn against turning away from Christ and Christianity and returning to their former Judaism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Steve Petersen]

This seems to be the historical interpretation, the "baptisms" of Hebrews 6:2 being the ritual washings or tevilah as proscribed in Judaism.

Arguably the chief point of the Epistle to the Hebrews seems to be to warn against turning away from Christ and Christianity and returning to their former Judaism.

-CryptoLutheran

I think the crux of the issue for the Hebrews here was that they had been ejected from the temple precincts and participation in the Temple rituals by the Sadducceaan high priest for their proclamation of the resurrection of Jesus. The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection. In order to regain Temple privileges Jewish believers were tempted to renounce Jesus.

 

[bugkiller]

Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

My Yahushua said this as translated into the Greek language:

John 4:34
λέγει αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐμὸν βρῶμά ἐστιν ἵνα ποιήσω τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με καὶ τελειώσω αὐτοῦ τὸ ἔργον (mGNT)

Or perhaps this:

John 4:34
λέγει αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς Ἐμὸν βρῶμά ἐστιν ἵνα ποιῶ τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με καὶ τελειώσω αὐτοῦ τὸ ἔργον (TR)

In the two versions above, we are given the choice of translating the verb ποιέω as a first person singular aorist subjunctive, ποιήσω, as found in the mGNT, or we can translate the verb ποιέω as a first person singular present subjunctive, ποιῶ, as found in the TR version. "The aorist subjunctive refers to the action (of the verb) without saying anything about its continuance or repetition, while the present subjunctive refers to it (the action of the verb) as continuing or as being repeated." Quoted from A New Testament Greek For Beginners by J. Gresham Machen, page 131, Section 283.

I am inclined to accept here the mGNT translation because τελειώσω is the first person singular aorist subjunctive of τελειόω. This does not mean that the TR version is not the correct version. What this does mean is that we must take into account two different accounts of the same action of a Greek verb within the same sentence.

Now, Folks, I am going to ask those who may consider themselves to be qualified to answer this question:

Did Yahushua wash HIS Hands before HE ate HIS Food, or did Yahushua eat with unwashed hands?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

That simply is of no importance.

bugkiller

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Radrook,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

I am just the opposite. I know Yahushua, and I am sure about HIM, but I do not know Auhsuhay, so how could I comment on him or her? Perhaps, you could educate me on why you believe that Auhsuhay would not wash his hands before performing a spiritual eating or work?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

P.S. I am rather like Der Alter in this regard. I prefer to be addressed by a proper salutation when someone blesses me with a post, and, of course, my pseudonym is Latuwr and not Rwutal.

 

[ViaCrucis]

but I do not know Auhsuhay

It's the fake name your using for Jesus spelled backward.

Yahushua isn't a name. The name you are trying to say is Yehoshua יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, but that wasn't the Lord's name either. You get a tiny bit closer if you say Yeshua, at least that would have been spelled correctly in Aramaic (ישוע), but that's not correct either since "Yeshua" is the Hebrew pronunciation, which isn't what anyone called Him, since neither the Lord, His family, or any of His disciples spoke vernacular Hebrew, they spoke Jewish Palestianian Aramaic; and in the case of Jesus and the Holy Family, they spoke a Galilean dialect of that language.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SteveCaruso]

Yahushua

Theophoric elements in Hebrew don't work that way.

/yeho-/ is the prefix form, /-yahu/ is the suffix form.

It's either "Yehoshua" or (hypothetically) "Shuayahu".

But Jesus' birth name was neither of those, but more likely the Aramaic ישוע (conventionally translated "Yeshua" in Galilean likely closer to /yəšu(a)/).