Did we misunderstood Apostle Paul?

[timewerx]

Apostle Peter said Paul's writings contains some things that are hard to understand - 2 Peter 3:16.

Even Apostle Paul himself said, his actions could be misunderstood by other Christians and cause them to stumble!! (1 Corinthians 8 - read whole chapter). :o :o

And obviously, we are thousands of years apart from Paul and considering his many other writings that are probably lost and never made it into the Bible. There's simply a lot of unknowns and also considering the cultural background of the period.

Finally, Paul won't be able explain himself all the time for practical reasons......All These makes it quite likely for us to misinterpret him....

If no one thinks what I'm saying holds any merit, Look around you. We have so many denominations divided over interpretation of scriptures. And these disagreements are mostly centered around Paul's teachings! :o

We all can't be right with many differing, often contradicting understanding of scriptures against one another.

"Fortunately" we can understand Paul correctly. But this requires a more careful, unbiased approach, and more extensive study of scriptures. An effort that the vast majority of Christians are unwilling to devote. Unless this changes, then Christianity is in huge trouble.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I know you don't like Paul, as you have a recent history, here, of displaying this fact. However, Paul is not so obscure that people cannot understand him. The divisions in the church have nothing to to with understanding Paul, but everything to do with wanting to accept his teachings (yourself included). Most of the disputes within Christianity address the teachings of Paul, not because he is hard to understand, but because his writings make the largest part of the New Testament. It would be more remarkable if his writings were not at the center of most disputes.

 

[topher694]

Most of the disputes within Christianity address the teachings of Paul, not because he is hard to understand, but because his writings make the largest part of the New Testament. It would be more remarkable if his writings were not at the center of most disputes.

This

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Perhaps this was by design. I'm particularly interested in his use of the term "Israel", and "gentile". I think there is some hidden meanings to be uncovered.

 

[CodyFaith]

Reading the epistles can't cause people to stumble. Saying or suggesting they could to others might though.

Also, do you still not believe in the Old Testament? Disregarding both the Old Testament and much of the NT that alligns with the OT?

Christianity is not in huge trouble. There are many of us who are in fellowship and communion with one heart and mind on many key doctrines. The Holy Spirit guided us to this blessed fellowship.

 

[brinny]

Apostle Peter said Paul's writings contains some things that are hard to understand - 2 Peter 3:16.

Even Apostle Paul himself said, his actions could be misunderstood by other Christians and cause them to stumble!! (1 Corinthians 8 - read whole chapter).

And obviously, we are thousands of years apart from Paul and considering his many other writings that are probably lost and never made it into the Bible. There's simply a lot of unknowns and also considering the cultural background of the period.

Finally, Paul won't be able explain himself all the time for practical reasons......All These makes it quite likely for us to misinterpret him....

If no one thinks what I'm saying holds any merit, Look around you. We have so many denominations divided over interpretation of scriptures. And these disagreements are mostly centered around Paul's teachings!

We all can't be right with many differing, often contradicting understanding of scriptures against one another.

"Fortunately" we can understand Paul correctly. But this requires a more careful, unbiased approach, and more extensive study of scriptures. An effort that the vast majority of Christians are unwilling to devote. Unless this changes, then Christianity is in huge trouble.

See posts #2, #3, and #5, my friend. (((hug)))

 

[Ken Rank]

"Fortunately" we can understand Paul correctly. But this requires a more careful, unbiased approach, and more extensive study of scriptures. An effort that the vast majority of Christians are unwilling to devote. Unless this changes, then Christianity is in huge trouble.

It takes a willingness to study as well. Paul used throughout his writings what is known as "the Rule of Hillel." These are 7 context-affecting rules that we don't even know exist... we aren't taught them. Yet, Paul used them and once you can recognize them, in some cases, the context change is dramatic.

Paul also quotes or infers the OT far more often than most realize. And when he does, in most cases, he is using one of those rules I just mentioned. And that is, to bring into the NT writing the context from the chapter he is quoting from in the OT. So for an example... go read Romans 9:20-27. There he is quoting Hosea 1, Isaiah 10, and another source if memory serves. God read those chapters, not just the verse he quotes... and then take that context into Romans and see if, perhaps, he isn't saying what we have been raised to think he is saying.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Apostle Peter said Paul's writings contains some things that are hard to understand - 2 Peter 3:16.

Even Apostle Paul himself said, his actions could be misunderstood by other Christians and cause them to stumble!! (1 Corinthians 8 - read whole chapter).

And obviously, we are thousands of years apart from Paul and considering his many other writings that are probably lost and never made it into the Bible. There's simply a lot of unknowns and also considering the cultural background of the period.

Finally, Paul won't be able explain himself all the time for practical reasons......All These makes it quite likely for us to misinterpret him....

If no one thinks what I'm saying holds any merit, Look around you. We have so many denominations divided over interpretation of scriptures. And these disagreements are mostly centered around Paul's teachings!

We all can't be right with many differing, often contradicting understanding of scriptures against one another.

"Fortunately" we can understand Paul correctly. But this requires a more careful, unbiased approach, and more extensive study of scriptures. An effort that the vast majority of Christians are unwilling to devote. Unless this changes, then Christianity is in huge trouble.

We must look at the level of knowledge Paul had of the Hebrew scriptures. He was "a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee". All the other Apostles were fishermen, tax collector, a zealot even a thief. I believe this is why he was difficult to understand as the layman would have little knowledge of the intricacies of the Torah. Since he was commanded to spread the Good News to the Gentiles this would be even more confusing as most Gentiles had no idea about the Torah.His training as a Pharisee gave him an advantage and as you said, much more study will reveal clarity.

 

[bcbsr]

"Fortunately" we can understand Paul correctly. But this requires a more careful, unbiased approach, and more extensive study of scriptures. An effort that the vast majority of Christians are unwilling to devote. Unless this changes, then Christianity is in huge trouble.

Actually it requires more than that.

Paul elaborates in 1Cor 2
We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" — but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

That may account for much of the differences of opinion.

 

[Ken Rank]

We must look at the level of knowledge Paul had of the Hebrew scriptures. He was "a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee". All the other Apostles were fishermen, tax collector, a zealot even a thief. I believe this is why he was difficult to understand as the layman would have little knowledge of the intricacies of the Torah.

I gave you a "winner" because you really did nail the main point on the head. But... those fishermen still went and heard the Torah read, it was still part of their culture. The difference between Paul and them was that Paul attended Beit Hillel... so in modern terms, he was a seminary trained theologian as opposed to those who might have only attended Sunday school.... so to speak. There are some bright folks in Sunday school... but they are not trained using various scriptural methodologies. THAT, and the fact that Paul was reaching out to those who did not go to the Temple or to Synagogues to hear the Torah read on Sabbath... is why he was hard to understand.

 

[Athanasius377]

This again?

 

[Knee V]

You are right about some things. Many do indeed greatly misunderstand the Apostle Paul, and they do so because they miss his context, which is the refutation of the Judaizers.

 

[com7fy8]

We have so many denominations divided over interpretation of scriptures. And these disagreements are mostly centered around Paul's teachings!

A real problem can be my own character which keeps me from being honest and clear enough to understand God correctly. If I am with God, I am not divisive, but I am ready to be caring and sharing with anyone, and help anyone with however God has helped me with His word.

A practical part of the problem of divisions is not Paul, at all, but how people are able to compare themselves with others and compete to be the right ones. Plus, ones are evading all which Paul's message says that God requires of us > for example > how many people are feeding on Philippians 2:13-16 and how this is basic Christianity and possible with God?

And what they do is come up with a few ideas unlike what others have, then ones know them for their handful of "fingerprint" ideas. And they get so tied up and tangled with justifying their wrong things, that some speakers constantly have their own fingerprints on every message!

And because of limiting themselves to their isolating ideas, they do not feed on all which is in God's word. But their perspective is fogged and clogged by their few items which keep them busy with disagreeing and praising their own selves.

But Paul himself says there are divisions so we can see who is approved > 1 Corinthians 11:19 < for Christians, the wrong ones make the real leaders look good!!

To me, it looks like Paul's basic is to minister us to be in the image of Jesus (Colossians 1:28-29, 1 Corinthians 6:17); and as we grow in Christ we are more and more deeply sharing with our Father and pleasing Him like Jesus is so pleasing (John 17:22-26, 1 Peter 3:1-4); and Jesus in us (Galatians 2:20, 4:19) has us more and more maturely loving the way Jesus loves (Ephesians 4:31-5:2, Ephesians 4:2, 1 Timothy 2:1-4); and submit to how our Father personally rules each of us in our hearts with His own peace (Colossians 3:15). I would say all scripture somehow can fit with and help with this.

So, if someone is mainly or even always elsewhere, this is all you need to know. Or, if your own understanding has you elsewhere, I would say offer yourself for how God can correct us (Hebrews 12:4-14) and tune us in His love in sharing with Him and one another.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Apostle Peter said Paul's writings contains some things that are hard to understand - 2 Peter 3:16.

Even Apostle Paul himself said, his actions could be misunderstood by other Christians and cause them to stumble!! (1 Corinthians 8 - read whole chapter).

And obviously, we are thousands of years apart from Paul and considering his many other writings that are probably lost and never made it into the Bible. There's simply a lot of unknowns and also considering the cultural background of the period.

Finally, Paul won't be able explain himself all the time for practical reasons......All These makes it quite likely for us to misinterpret him....

If no one thinks what I'm saying holds any merit, Look around you. We have so many denominations divided over interpretation of scriptures. And these disagreements are mostly centered around Paul's teachings!

We all can't be right with many differing, often contradicting understanding of scriptures against one another.

"Fortunately" we can understand Paul correctly. But this requires a more careful, unbiased approach, and more extensive study of scriptures. An effort that the vast majority of Christians are unwilling to devote. Unless this changes, then Christianity is in huge trouble.

I don’t think Paul is hard to understand, as much as hard to ACCEPT. The risen Lord Jesus called him to be our Apostle but that’s not selling these days. People want to play at being Israel and misappropriating their earthly things when Paul says we ARE SEATED in the heavenly places IN Christ Jesus.

What I find bizarre is Paul telling us we are saved by grace through faith apart from works ("by believing what you heard") and then constantly having some believer drag us back to JAMES to contradict that. Are YOU one of the "...twelve tribes scattered among the nations..."? I’m not. He’s not writing to me. Love his letter but he’s writing it to another audience. He wrote it before The Lord gave Paul the revelation of the mystery. James was not called to be our Apostle.

Martin Luther saw the glaring difference in Paul and James message and, being the pistol he was, SAID SO. Few today have guts like that. But I think he was on to something. People don’t accept Paul’s shocking teachings. What they really don’t accept is THE LORD'S!

 

[Grip Docility]

 

[timewerx]

It takes a willingness to study as well. Paul used throughout his writings what is known as "the Rule of Hillel." These are 7 context-affecting rules that we don't even know exist... we aren't taught them. Yet, Paul used them and once you can recognize them, in some cases, the context change is dramatic.

Paul also quotes or infers the OT far more often than most realize. And when he does, in most cases, he is using one of those rules I just mentioned. And that is, to bring into the NT writing the context from the chapter he is quoting from in the OT. So for an example... go read Romans 9:20-27. There he is quoting Hosea 1, Isaiah 10, and another source if memory serves. God read those chapters, not just the verse he quotes... and then take that context into Romans and see if, perhaps, he isn't saying what we have been raised to think he is saying.

Finally, someone who knows what I'm talking about!!

There's more layers to Paul than most would invest the effort to study. If anyone finds Paul's teachings easy to understand, they have likely missed the context.

That's true, you have also have consider the fact that Paul belonged to the Pharisee School of Hillel. Thus, one needs to do research about Hillel. A critical piece of information that don't just fall on your lap.

 

[timewerx]

There are some bright folks in Sunday school... but they are not trained using various scriptural methodologies. THAT, and the fact that Paul was reaching out to those who did not go to the Temple or to Synagogues to hear the Torah read on Sabbath... is why he was hard to understand.

The same would apply to us so it's actually critical we devote effort to study as much as we could concerning the period and Paul's background.

 

[timewerx]

I don’t think Paul is hard to understand, as much as hard to ACCEPT.

And yet, we have many denominations disagreeing mostly on interpreting Paul's teachings.

That's not hard to understand either that we actually have a hard time understanding Paul as a matter of fact

 

[timewerx]

Most of the disputes within Christianity address the teachings of Paul, not because he is hard to understand, but because his writings make the largest part of the New Testament. It would be more remarkable if his writings were not at the center of most disputes.

You agree most of the disputes center around Paul's teachings, yet you deny it's hard to understand. Contradicting yourself?

We're in huge trouble! Another proof we don't really see things as they are! Who should I trust anymore???

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Thus, one needs to do research about Hillel. A critical piece of information that don't just fall on your lap.

There is NOTHING critical about ever knowing Hillel, what he wrote, or whether or not Paul retained anything taught by him. When you have the risen Lord as your teacher, as Paul did, no other source of teaching is "critical". Since that direct teaching was passed on to us, we have no need of it either.

Judaizers love to introduce layers of hidden meaning into Paul's plain text. He was not writing in picture language Hebrew, but stone cold Greek (that was not an accident, God knows what He is doing). Paul didn't "really mean" anything other than what he wrote.