Did "Time" as we know it exist in the Garden before the fall?

[Revealing Times]

No. I believe the physical universe of when there were was only water and darkness was upon the face of the deep is unknown in it's age because the Bible does not say. No Science today actually tells us how old the universe actually is. People are only guessing. Light, the Earth, and vegetation were formed first and then the sun, moon, and the stars came into existence. If you read Genesis chapter 1 this is what it says. The days in Genesis are not long periods of time but they are 24 hour days because it attaches the words "evening" and "morning" to the word "day."

Instead of Repeating things I will post my blog on this, its much easier.

I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality. Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light years away, so we would have to be naive to think the universe is 6000 years old.

Onward to what Genesis says about creation, does it really say the universe or earth is 6000 years old? I don’t think it does, I think its a mistranslation of a primitive language that had only around 4000 words at the time Genesis was written, whereas the English language has 500,000 words. So many of the Hebrew words were used in multiple ways. For instance the original meaning of the Hebrew word YOWM (Day) means “to be hot” and there are at least 50 other meanings listed in strong’s concordance’s lexicon of Hebrew words. A year, a month, a period of time, chronicles, evening and morning (Beginning and end), age, perpetually, long, some time, whole, X required season, continually etc. etc., well you get the point.

YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is supposed to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion it lasted from 13.7 Billion BC until 4.5 Billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the Sun & Earth were formed. So lets take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God, then you had Inflation, followed by Afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! Gods word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from Gods POV, no man was there of course and with God he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. Remember the verse, a thousand years is like a day and a day like unto a thousand years unto God. In other words God lives in the past, present and future all at the same time.

So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes Transparent to Light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off.

The second day (period of time) of course would be from the Earth & the Suns formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the Third day (period of time) then on the Fourth day it seems God Set the Seasons or placed the Moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth is supposed to have collided. Anyway, that set the seasons, times, years etc. etc. Mind you, all of these ideas are rudimentary observations. A theory of how the things God says in His Holy Word and Science can both be factual. They are not meant to imply everything went down just so and in like manner, the dates of course are guesstimates, I wasn’t there.

On the Fifth day God created the Sea animals/birds and what not, were the Dinos created here or with the land animals? The fifth day lasted 300 million to 400 million years or so. On the Sixth Day around 300–350 Million BC God created the Land Animals. During this period of time the Dinosaurs became extinct about 70 Million years ago. Then during this “TIME PERIOD” (6TH DAY) God decided to create man 6000 or so years ago. Some might protest that men have been around much longer, but I offer this up, where is the data? Men are record keepers and we don’t have proof of men going back further. Now as per “MEN” being observed by scientists to have been around X Number of years, I never said Animal like men weren’t around, I stated Human Beings were created 6000 years ago, when God placed His spirit in us and thus we are immortal in that our souls can not die. We were at that point in time “Created in Gods Image”. The other fossils and bones mean nothing, because Scientists have no way of testing for God imparting His spirit into mankind and creating “Human Beings” with powerful intellects.

On the Seventh Day God rested, which only means He ceased Creating the Heavens/Earth/Mankind/Animals. So when we see stars and galaxies created today, it was ordered forth 13.7 Billion years ago. So its not necessarily either or. We need to start looking at things with an open mind, be we an atheist or a Christian.

P.S. Just something to think about. Einstein’s theory of relativity is in the very first verse of the bible, relatively speaking…LOL.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heaven(SPACE) and the earth(MATTER).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Instead of Repeating things I will post my blog on this, its much easier.

I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality. Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light years away, so we would have to be naive to think the universe is 6000 years old.

Onward to what Genesis says about creation, does it really say the universe or earth is 6000 years old? I don’t think it does, I think its a mistranslation of a primitive language that had only around 4000 words at the time Genesis was written, whereas the English language has 500,000 words. So many of the Hebrew words were used in multiple ways. For instance the original meaning of the Hebrew word YOWM (Day) means “to be hot” and there are at least 50 other meanings listed in strong’s concordance’s lexicon of Hebrew words. A year, a month, a period of time, chronicles, evening and morning (Beginning and end), age, perpetually, long, some time, whole, X required season, continually etc. etc., well you get the point.

YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is supposed to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion it lasted from 13.7 Billion BC until 4.5 Billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the Sun & Earth were formed. So lets take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God, then you had Inflation, followed by Afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! Gods word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from Gods POV, no man was there of course and with God he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. Remember the verse, a thousand years is like a day and a day like unto a thousand years unto God. In other words God lives in the past, present and future all at the same time.
View attachment 207647
So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes Transparent to Light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off.

The second day (period of time) of course would be from the Earth & the Suns formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the Third day (period of time) then on the Fourth day it seems God Set the Seasons or placed the Moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth is supposed to have collided. Anyway, that set the seasons, times, years etc. etc. Mind you, all of these ideas are rudimentary observations. A theory of how the things God says in His Holy Word and Science can both be factual. They are not meant to imply everything went down just so and in like manner, the dates of course are guesstimates, I wasn’t there.

On the Fifth day God created the Sea animals/birds and what not, were the Dinos created here or with the land animals? The fifth day lasted 300 million to 400 million years or so. On the Sixth Day around 300–350 Million BC God created the Land Animals. During this period of time the Dinosaurs became extinct about 70 Million years ago. Then during this “TIME PERIOD” (6TH DAY) God decided to create man 6000 or so years ago. Some might protest that men have been around much longer, but I offer this up, where is the data? Men are record keepers and we don’t have proof of men going back further. Now as per “MEN” being observed by scientists to have been around X Number of years, I never said Animal like men weren’t around, I stated Human Beings were created 6000 years ago, when God placed His spirit in us and thus we are immortal in that our souls can not die. We were at that point in time “Created in Gods Image”. The other fossils and bones mean nothing, because Scientists have no way of testing for God imparting His spirit into mankind and creating “Human Beings” with powerful intellects.

On the Seventh Day God rested, which only means He ceased Creating the Heavens/Earth/Mankind/Animals. So when we see stars and galaxies created today, it was ordered forth 13.7 Billion years ago. So its not necessarily either or. We need to start looking at things with an open mind, be we an atheist or a Christian.

P.S. Just something to think about. Einstein’s theory of relativity is in the very first verse of the bible, relatively speaking…LOL.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heaven(SPACE) and the earth(MATTER).

No offense, but I am not interested. I know what God's Word says.
May God bless you.

 

[Revealing Times]

No offense, but I am not interested. I know what God's Word says.
May God bless you.

I understand, its over your head or else you are just stiff necked. When we get to Heaven and you find out how old the Universe is then you will wonder if you lost any souls for telling them fiction brother.

God Bless

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I understand, its over your head.

Not at all. I just see it as blatantly false. It is obvious if one reads Genesis 1 plainly.
People have tried to change Genesis 1 by coming up with crazy theories like the Day Age Theory and the Gap Theory. But these do not work. There is no gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The Day Age Theory is false because a day is defined by the words "evening" and "morning." But your belief on Genesis is something else entirely. You believe Day 4 of Genesis is not an actual mention of the creation of the stars on that day when it clearly says that. So you have come up with something new or obscure that does not even remotely fit what the Bible says plainly. It is a very serious thing to change what God's Word says. There are warnings in doing that in Revelation 22.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Ah, but Genesis 3:16 denotes a transition in the way human beings were to reproduce after taking from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This verse sounds like God changes the very nature of reproduction, taking it from His hands and leaving it to humans.

All that is stated is that there will be pain in childbearing. Note that other animals give birth without a comparable pain that women experience.

There is nothing to indicate reproduction in the garden before their disobedience. In fact, God created Eve from Adam's rib as he slept. If the disobedient deed had been prolonged, perhaps God would have introduced more children to the garden in a similar fashion to how Eve was created.

I guess you have not read,

Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Genesis 2:24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Which Jesus quoted in his teaching on marriage and divorce.
Matthew 19:4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

This is a law of nature. It takes a man and a women joining/sex/marriage to reproduce. And this is the first command God gave to mankind, and also to all life.

 

[friend of]

Note that other animals give birth without a comparable pain that women experience.

Which verse(s)?

“Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.

Did they have Cain and Abel before or after the fall?

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

You are so sure of yourself. Do you understand that what you state is only the most recent theory of science? If the Big Band happened, why does it seem like we are the center of it? If the universe is only about 14 billion years old, how can it be 93 billion years in size? Do you understand that the "laws of physics" are broken in both a 6000 year old earth and an old earth? Don't be sure of your dismissal.

Do you even understand that up until 50-150 years ago the Scientific community professed the Universe to be ETERNAL and thus needed no God to have bee created?

You profess to the ever changing understanding by man of creation. But, this time they have it right? Then, we can cancel all the billions that this world spends on pure science research now that scientists know everything. Not even close. There are still many observations that don't add up/follow scientific laws. Dark matter and energy are nothing but huge fudge factors because scientists can't reconcile observations with their "laws".

When the Echo of the Big Bang was heard by 2 Scientists about 55 to 65 years ago, they forced Scientists to change their thinking, they forced them to ADMIT that the Universe had a Beginning, so the Big Bang you so vehemently argue against actually proves Genesis 1:1 to be correct, In the Beginning........

So your argument argues against the VERY EVENT that proves the bible right. Sure, Scientist keep changing the gal posts because many are Atheists, but that doesn't change the fact that God created the Universe from nothing, yu don't think all this energy got here without a big POW do you?

Don't be silly. I never argued that there wasn't a beginning, only that man's understanding of it with the Big Bang is both self supporting, and contradicting. The observation that objects farther from us are moving faster is what you use to determine the age of the universe. The obvious would conclude we are the center of the universe, but atheist scientists can not accept that so they create ways for observation to fit what they believe to be true. Not faithful followers of scientific theory, but they insist we must trust and believe them.

The Reason we are the center of he universe is because the Universe HAS TO BE this exact size to exist at all according to physics. If there had been a little less weight (GRAIN OF SAND) the Universe would have collapsed on itself, if the universe was any bigger their couldn't have been Nuclear fusion and the universe would have been 90 percent hydrogen, and thus no rocky planets would exist. The Universe is just the size it has to be to have been formed in like manner.

Scientists don't believe we are the center of the universe. You do.
Scientist keep changing how many stars/visible matter is in the universe.
So you can pick and choose what scientific understanding should be believed, but we can't?

I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality.

You are not thinking outside of the box. You are just regurgitating what atheist scientists profess.

Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light years away, so we would have to be naive to think the universe is 6000 years old.

Sorry, you can't repeat this "simple" proof when you have yet to explain the size of the universe is much larger than its age. While you are at it, explain how we started in the singularity of a small extremely dense point, exploded with a bang but are now expanding at an increasing rate.

Lastly, your argument is ignorant hypocrisy. You expect God to follow the laws of physics during creation week, while the Big Bang theory doesn't have to follow these same laws.[/QUOTE]

 

[Revealing Times]

Not at all. I just see it as blatantly false. It is obvious if one reads Genesis 1 plainly.
People have tried to change Genesis 1 by coming up with crazy theories like the Day Age Theory and the Gap Theory. But these do not work. There is no gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The Day Age Theory is false because a day is defined by the words "evening" and "morning." But your belief on Genesis is something else entirely. You believe Day 4 of Genesis is not an actual mention of the creation of the stars on that day when it clearly says that. So you have come up with something new or obscure that does not even remotely fit what the Bible says plainly. It is a very serious thing to change what God's Word says. There are warnings in doing that in Revelation 22.

The book of Revelation is my specialty along with Daniel. And going over the scriptures and finding ERRORS in Translations is not WRONG. In Daniel 8:14 is Daniel speaking of 2300 Days or 1150 Days? In Daniel 8:11 is he speaking about the Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast taking the Daily Sacrifices away or not?

Well it never says 2300 Days, it says 2300 EREB (Dusk) BORAQ (Dawns). Which means the Twice Daily Oblations (Prayer Sessions) we see in Daniel 9:21 when Gabriel touched him at the EVENING OBLATION.

The Word Sacrifice was added to Daniel 8:11, its just the Daily. So lets says its the Daily Oblations that is taken away by the Anti-Christ/Beast, so that means Israel has repented before the Abomination of Desolation just like Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 12:10 say.

So as you see, the Words have been added, by the English Translators in many cases. My job is to get at the TRUTH, YOWM has 50 Different meanings, you have to use the CONTEXT, and there is no such thing a a 24 Hour Day for the first 9.2 Billion years.

I understand Revelation from the front to the back. That is my calling.

God Bless.

 

[Revealing Times]

You profess to the ever changing understanding by man of creation. But, this time they have it right? Then, we can cancel all the billions that this world spends on pure science research now that scientists know everything. Not even close. There are still many observations that don't add up/follow scientific laws. Dark matter and energy are nothing but huge fudge factors because scientists can't reconcile observations with their "laws".

No, they don't have it right because many are Atheists. I wouldn't consider that right would you. But by the same token, the error they make is no worse an error than the young earth guys who insist the universe is 6000 years old. They are both stiff necked type people in Gods eyes. We can't know all of Gods ways, but we can see the Universe is a lot older than 6000 years old so anyone that tells me that loses all Cred with me. We also see light from Millions of light years away. We have MAPPED THE UNIVERSE and it MATCHES exactly what God said, there is DARKNESS on the FACE OF THE DEEP, so why do you not want to accept it as truth when it proves God?

Big Bang = a Beginning like God said.....WMAP proves the Darkness was on the Face of the Deep and thus the EVENING was First !!

All this because you can not accept that YOWM doesn't not have to be DAY.....Watch this. I dread having to do this to prove a point. But YOWM has MANY MEANINGS according to the CONTEXT. Why do you assume the context you chose is correct thus its a 24 Hour Period ?

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

#3117 יוֹם yowm {yome} from an unused root meaning to be hot; TWOT - 852; n m
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) as a division of time
1b2a) a working day, a day's journey
1c) days, lifetime (pl.)
1d) time, period (general)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially):—age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

• 3117.
• יוֹם
• yom (398a); a prim. root; day:—
• NASB - afternoon*(1), age(8), age*(1), all(1), always*(14), amount*(2), battle(1), birthday*(1), Chronicles*(38), completely*(1), continually*(14), course*(1), daily(22), daily the days(1), day(1115), day of the days(1), day that the period(1), day's(6), day's every day(1), daylight*(1), days(635), days on the day(1), days to day(1), days you shall daily(1), days ago(1), days'(11), each(1), each day(4), entire(2), eternity(1), evening*(1), ever in your life*(1), every day(2), fate(1), first(5), forever*(11), forevermore*(1), full(5), full year(1), future*(1), holiday*(3), later*(2), length(1), life(12), life*(1), lifetime(2), lifetime*(1), live(1), long(2), long as i live(1), long*(11), midday*(1), now(5), older*(1), once(2), period(3), perpetually*(2), present(1), recently(1), reigns(1), ripe*(1), short-lived*(1), so long*(1), some time(1), survived*(2), time(45), time*(1), times*(2), today(172), today*(1), usual(1), very old*(1), when(10), when the days(1), whenever(1), while(3), whole(2), year(10), yearly(5), years(13), yesterday*(1).
• ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

—Exhaustive Concordance (KJV Translation Frequency & Location)


AV - day 2008, time 64, chronicles + 37, daily 32, ever 17,
year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full 8
always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44; 2274

There is literally many meanings as with most Hebrew Words because the Hebrew language had only 4000 words at that time compared to the English languages 500,000 words. Please stop assuming the English Translators got it right on all points, its quite evident they did not.

 

[Revealing Times]

Don't be silly. I never argued that there wasn't a beginning, only that man's understanding of it with the Big Bang is both self supporting, and contradicting. The observation that objects farther from us are moving faster is what you use to determine the age of the universe. The obvious would conclude we are the center of the universe, but atheist scientists can not accept that so they create ways for observation to fit what they believe to be true. Not faithful followers of scientific theory, but they insist we must trust and believe them.

You didn't get my point. We have Scientists ADMITTING there was a beginning by the EVIDENCE you discount when they laughed out loud for years when it was mentioned that the universe was Created by God. Do you think they liked admitting that the Universe had a beginning? Of course not, it proved them wrong, so why would they FUDGE FACTS or even lie, when the Big Bang goes against everything they were teaching for 100's of years? All this you can't except, just because you see the word YOWM as having to be a DAY, even though I just showed you about 50 things it can be, and one thing is a PERIOD OF TIME !! But of course those English translators knew it all didn't they? NOPE...

Scientists don't believe we are the center of the universe. You do.
Scientist keep changing how many stars/visible matter is in the universe.
So you can pick and choose what scientific understanding should be believed, but we can't?

My center and your center means two different things. I am speaking about HUMANS being the CENTER of Importance to why God created the Universe, and the Universe has to be the EXACT SIZE it is to have been Created at all, that is a FACT. As per the center of the Universe, we can see the exact same distance in every direction so it makes us appear to be the center of the universe, but everywhere in the universe would appear to be the center of the universe if we make observations from that point. Of course the truth is the Earth formed 9.2 Billion years after the Big Bang and we have been here since with more space forming/expanding, so I doubt we are the center of the universe EXACTLY.

But we are at the CENTER of Gods plans. That is my point, the Universe was created specifically for us by God Almighty Himself.

You are not thinking outside of the box. You are just regurgitating what atheist scientists profess.

You are FIBBING OF COURSE....Atheist get angry because I spotlight the facts of a creation, whereas they pass you guys off as being Naive. I actually challenge their deluded thinking. Of course you can stick to that 6000 year stuff if you like, when you get to heaven you will find out you were wrong about the universe and how God created it.

Sorry, you can't repeat this "simple" proof when you have yet to explain the size of the universe is much larger than its age. While you are at it, explain how we started in the singularity of a small extremely dense point, exploded with a bang but are now expanding at an increasing rate.

Lastly, your argument is ignorant hypocrisy. You expect God to follow the laws of physics during creation week, while the Big Bang theory doesn't have to follow these same laws

Universe size matters!
Besides spiritual reasons, there are also physical constraints on the minimum (and maximum) mass of the universe. The universe could not have been much smaller than it is in order for nuclear fusion to have occurred during the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang. Without this brief period of nucleosynthesis, the early universe would have consisted entirely of hydrogen. Without helium (comprising ~24% of the matter in the universe), heavy element production in stars is not possible, so that no rocky planets would have ever existed in the entire history of the universe.

Likewise, the universe could not have been a much more massive than it is, or life would not have been possible. If the universe were just one part in 10 to the power of 59 more massive, the universe would have collapsed before life was possible. Since there are only 10 to the power of 80 baryons in the universe, this means that an addition of just 10 to the power 21 baryons (at 1.67x10−27 kg/baryon equals 1.7 mg of matter - equal to a grain of sand) would have made life impossible!

The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.

ONE MORE GRAIN OF SAND AND THE UNIVERSE COLLAPSES....

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

But by the same token, the error they make is no worse an error than the young earth guys who insist the universe is 6000 years old.

Somehow in all your so certain statements you have forgotten the hypocrisy of your belief; that a six day creation is impossible because it violates scientific "law" but the Big Bang is true, even though it also violates the same scientific laws. To put those that believe God's word through faith in the same camp as those that reject God's word is of the spirit of the Anti-Christ.

They are both stiff necked type people in Gods eyes. We can'y know all of Gods ways, but we can see the Universe is a lot older than 6000 years old so anyone that tells me that loses all Cred with me.

Those that argue in hypocrisy lose all cred with me. Does it really matter? This is the internet. It might as well be a black hole. Cred of one means nothing. I suggest you just sticking to defending your position. No one on the internet has any authority over another and cred is worthless. Don't pretend to be something that can't be proven. Those that are truly something don't have to state it. I don't think such exists on the internet.

Please stop assuming the English Translators got it right on all points, its quite evident they did not.

But remember these two texts.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

Jesus commanded us to teach all that he commanded to the whole world. Since God created the multiple languages, the implication is that there is a way for what God taught to be conveyed/translated into the various languages of all nations. God would not command us to do the impossible.

Combine this concept with the fact that God can not lie, of which deception is the same, we have to acknowledge that translations are true as a whole and do not deceive.

The time measurement of a week is based on creation. To teach that one week is really billions of years is deception. God does not deceive, but you think you know better, because you believe the theories of atheist scientists.

 

[Revealing Times]

Somehow in all your so certain statements you have forgotten the hypocrisy of your belief; that a six day creation is impossible because it violates scientific "law" but the Big Bang is true, even though it also violates the same scientific laws. To put those that believe God's word through faith in the same camp as those that reject God's word is of the spirit of the Anti-Christ.

I hate to say what the SPIRIT is of those who believe the universe is 6000 years old.

As per me being certain.....I will whip out my Bogart line.....What do you want me to do stutter? Maltese Falcon.

Those that argue in hypocrisy lose all cred with me. Does it really matter? This is the internet. It might as well be a black hole. Cred of one means nothing. I suggest you just sticking to defending your position. No one on the internet has any authority over another and cred is worthless. Don't pretend to be something that can't be proven. Those that are truly something don't have to state it. I don't think such exists on the internet.

Hypocrisy is not something you can even use against someone you do not know brother. I have no clue what you are speaking about. TBH.

But remember these two texts.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

Jesus commanded us to teach all that he commanded to the whole world. Since God created the multiple languages, the implication is that there is a way for what God taught to be conveyed/translated into the various languages of all nations. God would not command us to do the impossible.

Combine this concept with the fact that God can not lie, of which deception is the same, we have to acknowledge that translations are true as a whole and do not deceive.

The time measurement of a week is based on creation. To teach that one week is really billions of years is deception. God does not deceive, but you think you know better, because you believe the theories of atheist scientists.

That is true, once the Gospel is preached unto all the World then the Rapture happens and the Jews will go through Jacobs Troubles which bring them to repentance just before the Abomination of Desolation. But that has nothing do do with BAD TRANSLATIONS...Of course not everything is a bad translation, the Koine Greek language was a far greater language than the primitive Hebrew thus the New Testament is much clearer, there are a few places hat they got it wrong like in 2 Thessalonians 2 where the placed a FALLING AWAY in the KJV when the First SEVEN English Translations had DEPARTURE....and the SUBJECT was a Gathering together unto Christ so it is the Church which is DEPARTING just before the Anti-Christ comes forth. We have computers, there is no excuse for us not studying the GREEK and HEBREW root words.

God used YOWM not DAY..............And it has MANY MEANINGS....A period of time is one, and TOO BE HOT is another.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

You didn't get my point. We have Scientists ADMITTING there was a beginning by the EVIDENCE you discount when they laughed out loud for years when it was mentioned that the universe was Created by God. Do you think they liked admitting that the Universe had a beginning?

You didn't get my point. Scientists are always changing their theories and understandings, like why is the universe expanding at a faster rate now. It doesn't matter if scientists "like admitting" something new. They do this all the the time as even you professed.

As per the center of the Universe, we can see the exact same distance in every direction so it makes us appear to be the center of the universe, but everywhere in the universe would appear to be the center of the universe if we make observations from that point.

This may be, as you accuse another of, being over your head, but Hubble's constant is not that we can see equally in all directions. If the Big Bang was an explosion from a very small and very dense space to a much larger less dense space and you observed all objects moving away from you, then the conclusion would be that you are at the center of the universe. As you have failed to understand the question, I doubt you can answer the question.

Of course you can stick to that 6000 year stuff if you like, when you get to heaven you will find out you were wrong about the universe and how God created it.

When you get to heaven, you will find out that you were wrong but it does not matter to those in the dark on earth.

The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.

ONE MORE GRAIN OF SAND AND THE UNIVERSE COLLAPSES

You way exaggerate the accuracy of modern scientific theory. The Hubble constant is stated with a 3% degree of uncertainty. You claim accuracy billions of times greater. That is a joke when you consider 96% of the universe is dark matter and energy that the scientists have invented to reconcile their theories.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

I hate to say what the SPIRIT is of those who believe the universe is 6000 years old.

Why would you hate to say? You have already stated to being able to believe in a young earth and still making it to heaven.

Hypocrisy is not something you can even use against someone you do not know brother. I have no clue what you are speaking about.

Hypocrisy has many expressions. One is claiming that others have to follow rules that you don't have to. Regarding something scientific, it would be expecting one theory to have to abide to certain "established laws" but not requiring one's own theories to have to follow the same "established laws". I agree that a young earth violates some established physical laws. I have pointed out multiple times that you have not acknowledged that the Big Bang theory also violates established physical laws. I have never met you, but I know this argument you make is hypocritical.

God used YOWM not DAY..............And it has MANY MEANINGS....A period of time is one, and TOO BE HOT is another.

You profess that words have multiple meanings. Do you also agree that the correct meaning of the use of a word should be based on context? Is context the words around the questioned text or is it some scientific theory postulated thousands of years later?

God does not deceive.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The book of Revelation is my specialty along with Daniel. And going over the scriptures and finding ERROR in Translations is not WRONG. In Daniel 8:14 is Daniel speaking of 2300 Days or 1150 Days? In Daniel 8:11 is he speaking about the Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast taking the Daily Sacrifices away or not?

Well it never says 2300 Days, it says 2300 EREB (Dusk) BORAQ (Dawns). Which means the Twice Daily Oblations (Prayer Sessions) we see in Daniel 9:21 when Gabriel touched him at the EVENING OBLATION.

The Word Sacrifice was added to Daniel 8:11, its just the Daily. So lets says its the Daily Oblations that is taken away by the Anti-Christ/Beast, so that means Israel has repented before the Abomination of Desolation just like Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 12:10 say.

So as you see, the Words have been added, by the English Translators in many cases. My job is to get at the TRUTH, YOWM has 50 Different meanings, you have to use the CONTEXT, and there is no such thing a a 24 Hour Day for the first 9.2 Billion years.

I understand Revelation from the front to the back. That is my calling.

God Bless.

The truth of God's Word is hard to come by if you just regulate words in Scripture into something else or if you take out words in His Holy Word that you do not like (See note below on Daniel 8:11). We do not change God's Word but God's Word changes us. This is why you are not reading and accepting Genesis 1 at face value. There are dire warnings to the reader for making changes to the Word of God (Please read Revelation 22:18-19) (KJV). You have to accept the Bible at face value (including Genesis) in order to understand Revelation and other parts of the Bible properly.

The 2,300 days is in reference to the amount of time after the Old Temple is rebuilt; The 2,300 days is a time dedicated for man's false purposes involving God's Temple from the Old Testament. At the starting point of the breaking of the 1st seal or the start of the 7 Year Tribulation, 220 days will pass into the Tribulation, and the Jews will set up the Temple and begin the Temple sacrifices (Making it an unclean temple because the animal sacrifices are no longer acceptable to God). This temple will be taken over by the Anti-Christ and will continue to be unclean until the end of the Tribulation (Thereby fulfilling the 2,300 days of the Temple not being clean).

Important Note: Again, after the 220 days, there is 2300 days left in the Tribulation period (i.e. If you were to subtract 2,300 days from 2,520 days (7 years), you get 220 days).

But when will the temple be cleansed according to Daniel 8:14? Well, this event take place at the end of the Tribulation, when the Temple is destroyed. This is when the Temple will be cleansed. For every stone of the temple will be thrown down and it will later be burned up by a great fire (For the whole Earth will be purified with fire similar to destruction of the Global Flood but more effective in cleansing this Earth so as not to leave any Earthly relics of our old world behind for the upcoming Millennium or 1,000 year reign of Christ).

Note on Daniel 8:11:

When people translate languages, there are words that are gained or lost in translation so as to convey the same truth. I know this because my wife is Brazillian. While it appears that the word "sacrifice" does not appear in the original Hebrew, it is needed in the English. For the word "daily" before the word "sacrifice" is commonly used in reference to sacrifices: Genesis 1:1 (KJV) ; Also, the context of Daniel 8 is talking about a holy sanctuary or temple. In these places is where sacrifices took place. This is the context. But make no mistake, God's Word has been preserved in our world language today with the KJV. The English within the King James Bible is actually proven to be just as much divine in origin as the original languages (i.e. Hebrew and Greek) in the Holy Scriptures. Try checking out the King James Code by Mike Hoggard on YouTube.

 

[Revealing Times]

You didn't get my point. Scientists are always changing their theories and understandings, like why is the universe expanding at a faster rate now. It doesn't matter if scientists "like admitting" something new. They do this all the the time as even you professed.

Which is what Scientists do as a rule, its called theoretical rendering for a reason, then they test the theories to see if they hold muster. Eintein's Theory of Relativity was just that, a theory until it was tested by way of a huge telescope and proven correct. Herein lies the difference, there are real scientists and there are political people feigning to be Scientists like Bill Nye the Science guy, the fake scientists that the Gov. pay to tell us there is "Global Warming" when there is no such thing in reality, the Evolutionists which lie and tell us there is proof of evolution, when there is no such thing.

These types of things have nothing to do with factual evidence that real scientist put forth.

This may be, as you accuse another of, being over your head, but Hubble's constant is not that we can see equally in all directions. If the Big Bang was an explosion from a very small and very dense space to a much larger less dense space and you observed all objects moving away from you, then the conclusion would be that you are at the center of the universe. As you have failed to understand the question, I doubt you can answer the question.

I understood the question, I am telling you that if you viewed the rest of the universe from any other point the exact same thing would be happening. I will look up this I am speaking of to try and help you understand what I have learned on this, I can only explain it in layman terms without looking it up, so that is what I will do, just for you brother.

Is the Earth the Center of the Universe?

From our vantage point on the Earth, we infer that the observable Universe is 15 billion light-years in size in every direction that we look - in other words, we infer that we are at the center of a sphere 15 billion light-years in radius.

This does not mean, however, that we are at the centre of the Universe; it just means that we are at the centre of our observable Universe. A fundamental principle in our understanding of the Universe itself, called the Cosmological Principle, states that the Universe is homogeneous and isotropic on the largest scales. That means that on the whole, the Universe as seen from any vantage point (even one that is 15 billion light-years away from us!) will measure a spherical observable Universe with a radius of 15 billion light-years.

How does this make sense? It turns out that there are a couple of possibilities. First, the Universe could be much, much bigger than the part which we actually observe. If the Universe has the geometry of a "flat sheet" that we assume everyday on Earth, then the Cosmological Principle implies that the Universe must be infinite, since every observer at every "Universe edge" must observe the same global parameters. On the other hand, it is possible that the Universe's geometry is not flat, but curved like a sphere or a saddle. In this case, the Universe would "wrap" around at the edges: just as on the surface of the Earth, you would come back to where you started if you walked in one direction for long enough. Recent observations indicate that the first scenario is most likely true - we see a piece of the infinite, flat Universe that is 15 billion light-years in radius.

When you get to heaven, you will find out that you were wrong but it does not matter to those in the dark on earth.

Ummmmm no, the Universe is not 6000 years old. The Angels are shaking their heads at that as we speak, they would know.

You way exaggerate the accuracy of modern scientific theory. The Hubble constant is stated with a 3% degree of uncertainty. You claim accuracy billions of times greater. That is a joke when you consider 96% of the universe is dark matter and energy that the scientists have invented to reconcile their theories.

Hubble has nothing to do with WMAP look it up, they mapped out the Universe in full.

 

[Revealing Times]

Why would you hate to say? You have already stated to being able to believe in a young earth and still making it to heaven.

I am referring to being a little Naive, like children believing in Santa Clause.

Hypocrisy has many expressions. One is claiming that others have to follow rules that you don't have to. Regarding something scientific, it would be expecting one theory to have to abide to certain "established laws" but not requiring one's own theories to have to follow the same "established laws". I agree that a young earth violates some established physical laws. I have pointed out multiple times that you have not acknowledged that the Big Bang theory also violates established physical laws. I have never met you, but I know this argument you make is hypocritical.

You thinking the universe is 6000 years old is more akin to me being dumbfounded.

You profess that words have multiple meanings. Do you also agree that the correct meaning of the use of a word should be based on context? Is context the words around the questioned text or is it some scientific theory postulated thousands of years later?

God does not deceive.

It is based on CONTEXT, that is the problem with your theorem. You think the "Day" is a 24 hour period when the Earth and Sun were created 9.2 Billion years after the Big Bang or God commanding the Universe into existence. So IN CONTEXT, what is God telling us since He is the only one who observed the Creation, so you do realize that Genesis chapter One is Gods Viewpoint of Creation right? God is telling us the FIRST DAY is a PERIOD OF TIME !! As is the Second Day and so on. Time has no authority over God, He gave the command and the Laws of Nature (Gods Laws) came forth to produce the universe. God doesn't change the Laws of Nature to deceive us like many of you young earth guys insist.

So the Context is TO BE HOT.....Stars came forth....Period of Time....not a 24 hour day.

 

[Revealing Times]

The truth of God's Word is hard to come by if you just regulate words in Scripture into something else or if you take out words in His Holy Word that you do not like (See note below on Daniel 8:11). We do not change God's Word but God's Word changes us. This is why you are not reading and accepting Genesis 1 at face value. There are dire warnings to the reader for making changes to the Word of God (Please read Revelation 22:18-19) (KJV). You have to accept the Bible at face value (including Genesis) in order to understand Revelation and other parts of the Bible properly.

The 2,300 days is in reference to the amount of time after the Old Temple is rebuilt; The 2,300 days is a time dedicated for man's false purposes involving God's Temple from the Old Testament. At the starting point of the breaking of the 1st seal or the start of the 7 Year Tribulation, 220 days will pass into the Tribulation, and the Jews will set up the Temple and begin the Temple sacrifices (Making it an unclean temple because the animal sacrifices are no longer acceptable to God). This temple will be taken over by the Anti-Christ and will continue to be unclean until the end of the Tribulation (Thereby fulfilling the 2,300 days of the Temple not being clean).

Important Note: Again, after the 220 days, there is 2300 days left in the Tribulation period (i.e. If you were to subtract 2,300 days from 2,520 days (7 years), you get 220 days).

But when will the temple be cleansed according to Daniel 8:14? Well, this event take place at the end of the Tribulation, when the Temple is destroyed. This is when the Temple will be cleansed. For every stone of the temple will be thrown down and it will later be burned up by a great fire (For the whole Earth will be purified with fire similar to destruction of the Global Flood but more effective in cleansing this Earth so as not to leave any Earthly relics of our old world behind for the upcoming Millennium or 1,000 year reign of Christ).

Note on Daniel 8:11:

When people translate languages, there are words that are gained or lost in translation so as to convey the same truth. I know this because my wife is Brazillian. While it appears that the word "sacrifice" does not appear in the original Hebrew, it is needed in the English. For the word "daily" before the word "sacrifice" is commonly used in reference to sacrifices: Genesis 1:1 (KJV) ; Also, the context of Daniel 8 is talking about a holy sanctuary or temple. In these places is where sacrifices took place. This is the context. But make no mistake, God's Word has been preserved in our world language today with the KJV. The English within the King James Bible is actually proven to be just as much divine in origin as the original languages (i.e. Hebrew and Greek) in the Holy Scriptures. Try checking out the King James Code by Mike Hoggard on YouTube.

I bet you believe the Seals have already been broken........What I was saying above I have already blogged. There will be DAILYS but is can just as well be OBLATIONS.

Daniel 8:14 doesn't say DAY it says EREB and BORAQ or Evening and Morning, it never says Days, so it specifically refers to DUSK and DAWN. This is KEY to understanding the 2300 SUPPOSED DAYS. (See Hebrew Massoretic bible below)

8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 (EREB = DUSK) 1242 (BORAQ = DAWN) then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

So they wrote DAYS in as a Translation for Ereb and Boraq, which means 2300 Dusk and Dawns, which are APPOINTED TIMES to make offerings unto God. To prove this lets look at Daniel 9 and Daniels prayer unto God. It says he set his face toward God to prayer for Israel, to confess Israels sin etc. etc. We can read that prayer he made unto God on behalf of his peoples, then it says Gabriel came in an TOUCHED HIM at the time of the EVENING OBLATION !! Catch that guys? WATCH THIS, ITS REALLY EXCITING !!!

Dan 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God;21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

So Daniel shows us here, if we will only heed him, that there is a Morning and Evening Oblation (A tribute/honoring of God that IS NOT a Sacrifice per se of an Animal). Daniel was praying to the Lord God Almighty, it was done by him in the Morning and the Evening, I think we understand that because he stated this was the Evening Oblation, and in Daniel chapter 8 we see that there was an Evening and a Morning, but Daniel never called them Sacrifices, the English translators ADDED THAT, Watch this below in the Hebrew Massoretic Bible.

Yea, he magnified 1431 z8689 [himself] even to x5704 the prince 8269 of the host, 6635 and by x4480 him the daily 8548 [sacrifice] was taken away, 7311 z8717 z8675 z8689 and the place 4349 of his sanctuary 4720 was cast down. 7993 z8717

I am using a Hebrew Translation Massoretic bible, it has the original Hebrew, the Later Hebrew translation and the actual English Words that match with the Hebrew meaning. The KJV version has added words, and my Hebrew bible places them in BRACKETS []. So above we see that [himself] and [sacrifice] are not in the original Hebrew texts.

So what does the DAILY actually mean? Is it really going to be a Sacrifice in the Temple, or have the English translations gotten it wrong? Well since Daniel was Praying unto God, Worshiping God at the Evening Oblation, why can't the Jews be in the Temple worshiping the TRUE GOD/Jesus in like manner after they have accepted Jesus as their Messiah?

So the 2300 is really the 1150 and we know the Beasts reign of Jerusalem and over the Saints is for 1260 Days. So it fits right into the time frame. The Beast must conquer Jerusalem and then he defiles the Temple at a later date. Maybe 110 days or so later he takes away the Daily [OBLATIONS] instead of [SACRIFICES]. Prayers unto God !!

I think we are getting at the truth of this matter slowly but surely.