Did "Time" as we know it exist in the Garden before the fall?

Revealing Times

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I used to believe God existed in all points in time simultaneously for a long time. But in time (no pun intended), I have come to learn that this thinking is false. I believe God is simply 100% aware of the future with pin point accuracy (which would even include the regular things we do through out the day or the week). But God is not existing in all points in time. Time does not exist like it does in some kind of Time Travel movie. For if the Lord exists in some kind of past dimension somewhere (simultaneously along with the present and the future), then God could not have technically rested on the 7th day and nor could He have offered up one sacrifice so as to forever perfect them that are sanctified.
God exists outside of time, thus He has no need of ever having been created, and is thus Eternal.

God created the Universe for us and thus we re subject to time via the creation of space time. God is not subject to its restraints and thus lives in the past, present and future all at once. How do you think He knows the future? He lives in it now. I am the alpha and omega the beginning and the ending.
 
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How do you think He knows the future? He lives in it now. I am the alpha and omega the beginning and the ending.

Do you think His childreth will experience the same timelessness that God inhabits when we go to heaven?
 
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God exists outside of time, thus He has no need of ever having been created, and is thus Eternal.

God created the Universe for us and thus we re subject to time via the creation of space time. God is not subject to its restraints and thus lives in the past, present and future all at once. How do you think He knows the future? He lives in it now. I am the alpha and omega the beginning and the ending.

But if the Lord exists in some past or future dimension in some other part of the universe, then how could have rested on the 7th day? If He is living in some future or past time line somewhere, then He is moving and taking action as a part of His creation. So technically He could not have rested or stopped from His work on the 7th day. Sure this may be just His work within creation, but it minimizes His rest if He is working somewhere else. For just collecting sticks on the Sabbath for an Israelite under the Old Covenant (not the New Covenant) was a crime punishable by death. Also, is Jesus being sacrificed over and over and over and over and over repeatedly every day in some past dimension every second? Scripture says Christ was sacrificed one time for those believers who live holy in HIm and not many times (Hebrews 10:14). Yes, the Lord is our beginning and our end but that does not mean He is outside of our time exactly. It could be in reference of how God creates us and how God is our conclusion. For a beginning and an end are two points in time and they are not endless points in eternity. Yes, He has the power to be outside of our linear time, but the testimony of Scripture says otherwise.

As for God knowing the future: Well, I believe God had plenty of time in Eternity's past to rehearse every outcome and possibility of creation in His mind before He brought forth the first atoms of His creation. God knows the hearts and personalities of every soul He creates. He knows them better than they know themselves.
 
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Revealing Times

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But if the Lord exists in some past or future dimension in some other part of the universe, then how could have rested on the 7th day? If He is living in some future or past time line somewhere, then He is moving and taking action as a part of His creation. So technically He could not have rested or stopped from His work on the 7th day.
To start with, I study all the Hebrew/Greek root words and God doesn't need to rest so the translation is not correct. The Hebrew word SHABATH really God CEASING His handy work, not RESTING.

Shabath
1) to cease, desist, rest
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to cease
1a2) to rest, desist (from labour)
1b) (Niphal) to cease
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to cause to cease, put an end to
1c2) to exterminate, destroy
1c3) to cause to desist from

A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion;

So the proper translation would be God Ceased creating, nit that he Rested.

God does not live in "some part" of our Universe, He lives in Heaven, He created our universe of cause and effect for us, I would argue that God is the Quantum Fluctuations that is just outside our universe as seen by scientists. God gave the Command for the Universe to come forth, thus when the universe was ordered to form the command went out, the universe is still expanding and thus its coming forth because of the very first command God gave. God living in the future doesn't mean is is still creating the Universe. God Ceased His creating.

Sure this may be just His work within creation, but it minimizes His rest if He is working somewhere else. For just collecting sticks on the Sabbath for an Israelite under the Old Covenant (not the New Covenant) was a crime punishable by death.
This is more about Man-kind honoring and recognizing God as the Creator, this Day of rest for man-kind is to acknowledge God as the Creator.

Also, is Jesus being sacrificed over and over and over and over and over repeatedly every day in some past dimension every second? Scripture says Christ was sacrificed one time for those believers who live holy in HIm and not many times (Hebrews 10:14).
God living in all times at once has no effect on mankind.

es, the Lord is our beginning and our end but that does not mean He is outside of our time exactly.
Yes it does, if God was from our universe he MUST NEEDS be Created.

It could be in reference of how God creates us and how God is our conclusion. For a beginning and an end are two points in time and they are not endless points in eternity. Yes, He has the power to be outside of our linear time, but the testimony of Scripture says otherwise.

As for God knowing the future: Well, I believe God had plenty of time in Eternity's past to rehearse every outcome and possibility of creation in His mind before He brought forth the first atoms of His creation. God knows the hearts and personalities of every soul He creates. He knows them better than they know themselves.
I will post below from Richard Deem a blog that explains this in much more detail than I have to time to do it here.
 
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Revealing Times

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If God Created Everything, Who Created God?
By Rich Deem


How did God get here?
Richard Dawkins, among other atheists, thinks he has the ultimate proof that God doesn't exist. If God created a complex universe, wouldn't it take an even more complex entity to have created God? However, such logic assumes that time has always existed, rather than being merely a construct of this universe.

Who created God? It is an age-old question that has plagued all those who like to think about the big questions. Having grown up as an agnostic non-Christian, it provided me with a potential reason why there might not be any god. Various religions tend to solve the problem in different ways. The LDS church (Mormonism) says that the God (Elohim) to whom we are accountable had a father god, then grew up on a planet as a man, and progressed to become a god himself. Many other religions have claimed that gods beget other gods. Of course the problem with this idea is how did the first god get here? This problem of infinite regression invalidates such religions. Christianity claims that God has always existed. Is this idea even possible? Does science address such issues?

Christianity's answer
Christianity answers the question of who made God in the very first verse of the very first book, Genesis:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)

This verse tells us that God was acting before time when He created the universe. Many other verses from the New Testament tell us that God was acting before time began, and so, He created time, along with the other dimensions of our universe:

  • No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
  • This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)
  • The hope of eternal life, which God... promised before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)
  • To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)
The idea that God created time, along with the physical universe, is not just some wacky modern Christian interpretation of the Bible. Justin Martyr, a second century Christian apologist, in his Hortatory Address to the Greeks, said that Plato got the idea that time was created along with the universe from Moses:

"And from what source did Plato draw the information that time was created along with the heavens? For he wrote thus: 'Time, accordingly, was created along with the heavens; in order that, coming into being together, they might also be together dissolved, if ever their dissolution should take place.' Had he not learned this from the divine history of Moses?"1

God exists in timeless eternity
How does God acting before time began get around the problem of God's creation? There are two possible interpretations of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence.

God exists in multiple dimensions of time
The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimensions of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.

Why can't the universe be eternal?
The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn't need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Maybe Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical "science" that attempts to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger "multiverse" that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters. Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a substitute "god" for atheists. And, since this "god" is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.

What does science say about time?
When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning - at the moment of creation (i.e., the Big Bang). In fact, if you examine university websites, you will find that many professors make such a claim - that the universe had a beginning and that this beginning marked the beginning of time (see The Universe had a Beginning) . Such assertions support the Bible's claim that time began at the creation of the universe.

Conclusion
God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.8 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).
 
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To start with, I study all the Hebrew/Greek root words and God doesn't need to rest so the translation is not correct. The Hebrew word SHABATH really God CEASING His handy work, not RESTING.

I am not a new believer; Of course I know "rest" means to "cease from work" for God. God cannot get tired. The only way the Lord got tired was when the Word was made flesh.
You said:
Shabath
1) to cease, desist, rest
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to cease
1a2) to rest, desist (from labour)
1b) (Niphal) to cease
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to cause to cease, put an end to
1c2) to exterminate, destroy
1c3) to cause to desist from

A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion;

So the proper translation would be God Ceased creating, nit that he Rested.

I believe the use of the word "rest" is not an error in the English translation, but this was simply an example of Anthropomorphism because God created us in His image. God speaks to us in human ways so as to help us to relate to Him.

You said:
God does not live in "some part" of our Universe, He lives in Heaven, He created our universe of cause and effect for us, I would argue that God is the Quantum Fluctuations that is just outside our universe as seen by scientists. God gave the Command for the Universe to come forth, thus when the universe was ordered to form the command went out, the universe is still expanding and thus its coming forth because of the very first command God gave. God living in the future doesn't mean is is still creating the Universe. God Ceased His creating.

I never denied that God lives in Heaven. God also lives in our hearts and is ever interactive with His creation called "man" here on this Earth.

As for God ceasing from His creating on the 7th day and God existing in all points in time:

Stop and think for a second, if God exists in all points in time, then that means He is still creating everything on the six day creation in some past dimension somewhere. This would include the 7th Day He stopped from his work (i.e. "rest" - metaphoral). So He technically would not have ceased from His work if He exists in some past dimension like the six day creation (Whereby He is still creating the stars, plants, animals, and man, etc.).

You said:
This is more about Man-kind honoring and recognizing God as the Creator, this Day of rest for man-kind is to acknowledge God as the Creator.

Yes. I agree.

You said:
God living in all times at once has no effect on mankind.

Yes it does because God is present and interactive with man in the physical universe; And Hebrews 10:14 says, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

If God exists in some past dimension on our Earth and He is re-living the sacrifice for man's sin on the cross over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, then this would not be "one offering" but many offerings. It would be as if God was a slave to time and He was stuck in somekind of ground hog day movie doomed to repeat history over and over and over again. That doesn't make any sense.

You said:
Yes it does, if God was from our universe he MUST NEEDS be Created.

No. Alpha means "beginning" and Omega means "the end." Alpha does not mean "Eternity's past" and "Omega" does not mean "Eternity's future." This is spoken in context to us. We surely were not with God beyond Eternity's past. But God did create our beginning (at the creation week), which is what Alpha means. For Alpha means beginning. It is what Revelation says.
You said:
I will post below from Richard Deem a blog that explains this in much more detail than I have to time to do it here.

Well, you mentioned the Mormon church in your reply here. I sure hope you are not a Mormon. That means our understanding of the gospel, Jesus Christ, and Scripture are worlds apart.
 
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Revealing Times

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I am not a new believer; Of course I know "rest" means to "cease from work" for God. God cannot get tired. The only way the Lord got tired was when the Word was made flesh.
I wanted to clarify the point because you were/are implying that he could not have rested/stopped, but the fact is His creation comes from his original command, that's why the universe is still expanding/being created, but God is not ordering it, because the command went out 13.7 Billion years ago.

I believe the use of the word "rest" is not an error in the English translation, but this was simply an example of Anthropomorphism because God created us in His image. God speaks to us in human ways so as to help us to relate to Him.
He wants us to Rest, or CEASE our working, its an example, I agree.

I never denied that God lives in Heaven. God also lives in our hearts and is ever interactive with His creation called "man" here on this Earth.
God lives in our our hearts via the Holy Spirit, God the Father can not live in our hearts, its semantics, but I just wanted to clarify, else I confuse someone else.

As for God ceasing from His creating on the 7th day and God existing in all points in time:

Stop and think for a second, if God exists in all points in time, then that means He is still creating everything on the six day creation in some past dimension somewhere. This would include the 7th Day He stopped from his work (i.e. "rest" - metaphoral). So He technically would not have ceased from His work if He exists in some past dimension like the six day creation (Whereby He is still creating the stars, plants, animals, and man, etc.).

No, it means His commands are given and once they go forth He doesn't have to ever give them again.God living in all time doesn't equate to us still being in the past, we are not, God live in multiple planes of time. That has zero effect on how we interact with him.

Yes it does because God is present and interactive with man in the physical universe; And Hebrews 10:14 says, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

If God exists in some past dimension on our Earth and He is re-living the sacrifice for man's sin on the cross over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, then this would not be "one offering" but many offerings. It would be as if God was a slave to time and He was stuck in somekind of ground hog day movie doomed to repeat history over and over and over again. That doesn't make any sense.

I repeat, it has no effect on us how God exists. He lives in all time at once, but hes not reliving time as you suggest because time has no power over him. You are trying (via a misunderstanding) to limit God vs. this UNIVERSES TIME CONSTRAINTS, when God is not Bound by our Universes laws, He created the Universe and our "Space Time" for us so there would be consequences for our actions, we live in a "Cause and effect" Universe. God isn't bound by cause and effect.

No. Alpha means "beginning" and Omega means "the end." Alpha does not mean "Eternity's past" and "Omega" does not mean "Eternity's future." This is spoken in context to us. We surely were not with God beyond Eternity's past. But God did create our beginning (at the creation week), which is what Alpha means. For Alpha means beginning. It is what Revelation says.
It doesn't really mean beginning, it means the First and the Last, the First doesn't have to have a beginning. The beginning is in reference to our Universe I believe, He is the beginning of ALL THINGS.

Well, you mentioned the Mormon church in your reply here. I sure hope you are not a Mormon. That means our understanding of the gospel, Jesus Christ, and Scripture are worlds apart.

No, I didn't mention a Mormon Church, the Blog by Rich Deem mentioned the Mormon Church and if you read it you should see it is a put down of their beliefs about where God came from, they believe God was born....In some weird capacity. God is ETERNAL.
 
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I wanted to clarify the point because you were/are implying that he could not have rested/stopped, but the fact is His creation comes from his original command, that's why the universe is still expanding/being created, but God is not ordering it, because the command went out 13.7 Billion years ago.

As for your reference to billions of years: How old do you think the Earth is? Or are you are referring to the time of the physical universe when there was only darkness and there was water upon the face of the deep? (Genesis 1:1-2).

You said:
He wants us to Rest, or CEASE our working, its an example, I agree.

But it is not what many think it means today, though.

Hebrews 4:11 says, "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

For without holiness no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Granted, holiness or works is just proof that Christ lives in a believer or not (1 John 2:3-4).

For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).

You said:
God lives in our our hearts via the Holy Spirit, God the Father can not live in our hearts, its semantics, but I just wanted to clarify, else I confuse someone else.

Yes, all three distinct persons of the Godhead or the Trinity live in the hearts of believers.

You said:
No, it means His commands are given and once they go forth He doesn't have to ever give them again.God living in all time doesn't equate to us still being in the past, we are not, God live in multiple planes of time. That has zero effect on how we interact with him.

I repeat, it has no effect on us how God exists. He lives in all time at once, but hes not reliving time as you suggest because time has no power over him. You are trying (via a misunderstanding) to limit God vs. this UNIVERSES TIME CONSTRAINTS, when God is not Bound by our Universes laws, He created the Universe and our "Space Time" for us so there would be consequences for our actions, we live in a "Cause and effect" Universe. God isn't bound by cause and effect.

I considered this idea for a few hours. I really thought this theory could work but it just can't.
I will explain in my next post.
 
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Revealing Times

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As for your reference to billions of years: How old do you think the Earth is? Or are you are referring to the time of the physical universe when there was only darkness and there was water upon the face of the deep? (Genesis 1:1-2).
The Universe was ordered forth 13.75 Billion years ago thus that is how old it is. The Sun and its planets (including Earth) are 4.5 Billion years old. The Big Bang happened, then there was 380,000 years of after glow, followed by 400 Million years of DARKNESS, then Stars started forming and have been forming ever since.

But it is not what many think it means today, though.

Hebrews 4:11 says, "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

For without holiness no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Granted, holiness or works is just proof that Christ lives in a believer or not (1 John 2:3-4).

For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).
To me Gods REST is His being, His Essence, who He is as Jesus portrayed and lived, thus Jesus is His exact likeness as is the Holy Spirit, but neither are the FULLNESS of the Father, if that makes any sense. If Jesus was the Fullness of God we could not have looked upon his Glory, if the Holy Spirit was the Fullness of the Father he could not live in our Hearts, else we would not be able to house his Glory in our Hearts, of course. But both are the EXACT LIKENESS of the Father.

If this doesn't make sense I can clarify.


God the Holy Spirit can live in our Hearts as well as Jesus being in our presence and interceding for us, but God the Father can not live in our Hearts because God the Father has ALL THE GLORY.

I considered this idea for a few hours. I really thought this theory could work but it just can't.
I will explain in my next post.

You know what they say, you think long, you think wrong....SMILE....
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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And was the original garden a temporal state or was it eternal in its nature before the fall?
How has everyone measured time? Based on the day, fractions and multiples of it. One day is one revolution of the earth. Despite what some argue that the sun did not exist on the first day so the length of the first day is unknown, the earth did exist and it was spinning at the same rate it spins now. A change in that would be cataclysmic.

Now to dispel the common myth, the garden of Eden was not perfect and not meant to last forever. You just can't have people reproduce and live forever. Proof that it was not eternal is that there was the day, the measure of time.
When God makes everything new again, will Heaven be likened to a new Garden of Eden?
Compare the description of creation to the new world in Revelation 21 and 22. Not even close. The most important thing to note is that there will be no sun and no moon and we will live for ever. Now if there is no sun, and no night, there will be no measurement of time. Measurement of time is pointless when you live for ever.

Revelation 21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
Revelation 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.​

Further Jesus taught that there will be no marriage or reproduction in heaven so this cures the problem of people living forever and reproducing.

strictly speaking -time- does not exist -
it is used to measure motion in a physical world -
I don't think heaven will be physical -so- it will be timeless
Close but not exactly. Scripture starts with "In the beginning". Of course God existed before, so what began was this world that is physical. This world has a life span, so it has a beginning and an end, measured in days which is based on a physical motion as you say. I would agree that God in creation made all the physical laws that govern this world.

Now consider judgement day also know as the last day. This reinforces the concept that time will end in the next age. There will be no more days and no more way to measure time. If you can't measure time anymore, I say it has disappeared.

So in conclusion, I offer this puzzle to respond to your "time does not exist".

Time is not eternal.
 
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The Universe was ordered forth 13.75 Billion years ago thus that is how old it is. The Sun and its planets (including Earth) are 4.5 Billion years old. The Big Bang happened, then there was 380,000 years of after glow, followed by 400 Million years of DARKNESS, then Stars started forming and have been forming ever since.
You are so sure of yourself. Do you understand that what you state is only the most recent theory of science? If the Big Band happened, why does it seem like we are the center of it? If the universe is only about 14 billion years old, how can it be 93 billion years in size? Do you understand that the "laws of physics" are broken in both a 6000 year old earth and an old earth? Don't be sure of your dismissal.
 
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The Universe was ordered forth 13.75 Billion years ago thus that is how old it is.

Scripture verse please.

You said:
The Sun and its planets (including Earth) are 4.5 Billion years old.

Scripture verse please.

You said:
The Big Bang happened,

Scripture verse please.

You said:
then there was 380,000 years of after glow,

Scripture verse please.

You said:
followed by 400 Million years of DARKNESS, then Stars started forming and have been forming ever since.

Not true. The Bible says.

14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night:
He made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

You said:
To me Gods REST is his being, His Essence, who he is as Jesus portrayed ad lived, thus Jesus is His exact likeness as is the Holy Spirit,but neither are the FULLNESS of the Father, if that makes any sense. If Jesus was the Fullness of God we could not have looked upon his Glory, if the Holy Spirit was the Fullness of the Father he could not live in our Hearts, else we would not be able to house his Glory in our Hearts, of course. But both are the EXACT LIKENESS of the Father.

Two things here. One, Scripture tells us that we have to LABOR so as to enter into the rest of God (Hebrews 4:11). I would agree that this would be a person being at peace with God living in them. But we have to live holy and be fruitful so as to abide in Christ or to continue to abide in Christ (Who is our rest).

Two, while it is true that the Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5), the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

Here are a couple of quick points:

#1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.
#2. God refers to Himself in plural form (Genesis 1:26) (Genesis 3:22) (Genesis 11:7) (Isaiah 6:8).
#3. Plurality of God in New Testament (Matthew 28:19) (2 Corinthians 13:14) (John 14:16-20).
#4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (Daniel 7:9,10,13,14) (John 14:16)
#5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (Luke 3:21-22)
#6. Distinctions of Wills (Luke 22:42).
#7. Conversations Between the Godhead (Psalm 2:1-12) (Psalm 45:6-7) (Psalm 110:1) (Matthew 11:27) (John 17:24).

You said:
God the Holy Spirit can live in our Hearts as well as Jesus being in our presence and interceding for us, but God the Father can not live in our Hearts because God the Father has ALL THE GLORY.

Not true. The Bible says God the Father can also live in our hearts, too.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23).

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:21).

There is more Scripture that states this truth, but hopefully this should suffice.

You said:
You know what they say, you think long, you think wrong....SMILE....

But here is the thing. I was thinking that your belief was true for a few hours. I really honestly wanted to believe it, but the more I examined it, the more I discovered it was not true. In fact, the problem with the idea of God living in all points in time is three fold.

#1. Time Travel. Some people can get obsessed with time travel. A small few people think they can time travel using spirituality or their mind.

#2. If there was a future time line that has already happened, then it undermines many verses. God is desiring to be with His bride and yet in some future timeline or dimension He is with them.

#3. It minimizes the importance of what we do here. If we thought there was a future that already existed for us, then we could think that what we do here does not truly matter.

I will later try and explain the problems with the idea of God living in some sort of future time (even while ignoring the physical laws of our universe).
 
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The world wants you to believe in time travel. Time travel movies, and books are very popular. But usually when things are popular, they are not true.

The problem I see with God living in all points in time is that if the future already happened to God, then why are we living in the present now? Are we also living in some future time line? That appears to undermine that what we do here in the present is not all the important because we are just doing things over again or repeating ourselves. Remember, when God says He does not like vain repetitious prayer? I would apply this truth for us living in a repeated endless loop of time, as well. If God is to be outside of time and to witness us reliving time over and over and over and over and over again, then that would be repetitious.

We would also have to be there in some future time line for God to also be there. But are we living in some kind of future time line? No. If we did, then we would have to endless live in some kind of groundhog day movie. That is not good. It makes no sense.
 
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You are so sure of yourself. Do you understand that what you state is only the most recent theory of science? If the Big Band happened, why does it seem like we are the center of it? If the universe is only about 14 billion years old, how can it be 93 billion years in size? Do you understand that the "laws of physics" are broken in both a 6000 year old earth and an old earth? Don't be sure of your dismissal.
Do you even understand that up until 50-150 years ago the Scientific community professed the Universe to be ETERNAL and thus needed no God to have bee created? When the Echo of the Big Bang was heard by 2 Scientists about 55 to 65 years ago, they forced Scientists to change their thinking, they forced them to ADMIT that the Universe had a Beginning, so the Big Bang you so vehemently argue against actually proves Genesis 1:1 to be correct, In the Beginning........

So your argument argues against the VERY EVENT that proves the bible right. Sure, Scientist keep changing the gal posts because many are Atheists, but that doesn't change the fact that God created the Universe from nothing, yu don't think all this energy got here without a big POW do you?

The Reason we are the center of he universe is because the Universe HAS TO BE this exact size to exist at all according to physics. If there had been a little less weight (GRAIN OF SAND) the Universe would have collapsed on itself, if the universe was any bigger their couldn't have been Nuclear fusion and the universe would have been 90 percent hydrogen, and thus no rocky planets would exist. The Universe is just the size it has to be to have been formed in like manner.
 
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In the beginning God created the Heaven And the earth. If you don't understand how old the Universe is that is on you.

Scripture verse please.
Look at the WMAP map, they mapped out the Universe measuring the Microwave Background.
wmap-timeline (1).jpg

You see that 400 Million years of DARKNESS? And there was DARKNESS on the FACE OF THE DEEP. Quantum Fluctuations is God, the Scientists are just ignorant of that fact.

Not true. The Bible says.

14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night:
He made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

What we have here is a common misconception by people who do not use logic and do not understand Gods POV. You can not have Planets without a Sun, they are all formed from a Nebula of gasses at the same time, you can not have grass without a sun, nor can you have an earth without a sun, this is kid stuff. The Fourth Day is about God creating the SEASONS !!! The Moon and Earth were about the same size, they violently crashed into each other and thus God SET THE SEASONS, and we get a perfect orderly Day and Night on regular cycles, without the Moon being so close to the earth we would wobble and get REAL WEIRD WEATHER, Violent weather, and the Seasons and Days would be odd, so God set the SEASONS.

God did make the Stars also, and is continuing to create the Stars, THY STILL FORM TO THIS VERY DAY. You thinking God created the Earth before the sun is kind of weird to me I guess, I see it all the time though so don't feel weird, I was just saying it doesn't fit so it seems weird.

They both are the EXACT SAME AGE. LOOK UP NEBULA and see how stars and planets form.


Not true. The Bible says God the Father can also live in our hearts, too.
God the Father has the Glory, you would die if you looked upon him, you can be one as in WHAT HE STANDS FOR just as Jesus is Gods Exact Likeness and as the Holy Spirit is, but we as men can not even look upon His glory, remember Moses? He told him if you look upon me you will die, any man who opened the Ark of the Covenant was told they would die.

The Glory of the Father can not even be looked upon.

I am a preacher of 30 years brother, its my business to know these facts.
 
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You just can't have people reproduce and live forever.

Ah, but Genesis 3:16 denotes a transition in the way human beings were to reproduce after taking from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This verse sounds like God changes the very nature of reproduction, taking it from His hands and leaving it to humans. There is nothing to indicate reproduction in the garden before their disobedience. In fact, God created Eve from Adam's rib as he slept. If the disobedient deed had been prolonged, perhaps God would have introduced more children to the garden in a similar fashion to how Eve was created.
 
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In the beginning God created the Heaven And the earth. If you don't understand how old the Universe is that is on you.

No. I believe the physical universe of when there were was only water and darkness was upon the face of the deep is unknown in it's age because the Bible does not say. No Science today actually tells us how old the universe actually is. People are only guessing. Light, the Earth, and vegetation were formed first and then the sun, moon, and the stars came into existence. If you read Genesis chapter 1 this is what it says. The days in Genesis are not long periods of time but they are 24 hour days because it attaches the words "evening" and "morning" to the word "day."

You said:
Look at the WMAP map, they mapped out the Universe measuring the Microwave Background.
View attachment 207623
You see that 400 Million years of DARKNESS? And there was DARKNESS on the FACE OF THE DEEP. Quantum Fluctuations is God, the Scientists are just ignorant of that fact.

Pretty picture. But that is all that it is. This is not actual observable evidence from a starship or something. You are not reading and believing Genesis 1 at face value and you are making secular Science the basis for how things came to be and not God's Word.

You said:
What we have here is a common misconception by people who do not use logic and do not understand Gods POV. You ca have not Planets without a Sun, they are all formed from a Nebula of gasses at the same time, you can not have grass without a sun, not can you have an earth without a sun, this is kid stuff.

God spoke the universe into existence. How is that scientific? God created things in a non-scientific way. God's creation is a miracle by God's hand. God did not have to use Science that you can understand so as to make the universe. In fact, God made light first on day one and then God created the sun, the moon, and the stars on day four. Day 2, God provided the land with trees and on day 4 is when God made the sun to appear. This is what Genesis 1 says and it is also kid stuff if you read and believe your Bible like a child would.

You said:
The Fourth Day is about God creating the SEASONS !!! The Moon and Earth were about the same size, they violently crashed into each other and thus God SET THE SEASONS, and we get a perfect orderly Day and Night on regular cycles, without the Moon being so close to the earth we would wobble and get REAL WEIRD WEATHER, Violent weather, and the Seasons and Days would be odd, so God set the SEASONS.

No. Go back and read it again. It says God created the sun, the moon, and the stars on day four. God starts off on "Day 4" in saying, "Let there lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the light from night." This was for the purpose so as to give light upon the Earth.

Gen 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day." (Genesis 1:14-19).​

You said:
God did make the Stars also, and is continuing to create the Stars, THY STILL FORM TO THIS VERY DAY. You thinking God created the Earth before the sun is kind of weird to me I guess, I see it all the time though so don't feel weird, I was just saying it doesn't fit so it seems weird.

God is a miracle worker. Jesus walked on water. He can do whatever He pleases. God knows how to defy the laws of physics. You said so yourself. The reason it seems weird to you in how God created things is because God's ways are higher than our ways. God does not always operate using the natural laws. Many times God just uses miracles.

Oh, and God is not continuing to create the stars, either.

Gen 2:1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." (Genesis 2:1-2).​

You said:
They both are the EXACT SAME AGE. LOOK UP NEBULA and see how stars and planets form.

Seeing how nobody seen an actual planet and star form I would say that they do not know what they are talking about.

You said:
God the Father has the Glory, you would die if you looked upon him, you can be one as in WHAT HE STANDS FOR just as Jesus is Gods Exact Likeness and as the Holy Spirit is, but we as men can not even look upon His glory, remember Moses? He told him if you look upon me you will die, any man who opened the Ark of the Covenant was told they would die.

The Glory of the Father can not even be looked upon.

God is not revealing His full glory physically for people to see Him if He lives inside a person's heart.
The verses I quoted to you say that God the Father lives in a person. It is your choice to either believe those verses or not believe them. If you don't believe them, then you need to show me how those two verses I presented do not say that God the Father lives in a person.

You said:
I am a preacher of 30 years brother, its my business to know these facts.

No offense. But that does not impress me. There are many preachers today who do not know what God's Word says plainly. The problem is you are not reading and believing Genesis 1 at face value. How big is your church? Do they all agree with you on Genesis 1? Even if you did have a large following and they followed you in what God's Word says on this particular point, it does not mean you are correct, my friend. Truth is not determined by the acceptance of others.
 
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