Did the Son of God have a physical body at creation?

[AnticipateHisComing]

In another thread one said that the Son of God always had a physical body. That at creation, we were made in the likeness of God and since we have physical bodies, that means the Son of God had a physical body when he created us in his image.

What do you think?

 

[Philip_B]

Because we believe in the eternal generation of the Son (see John 1:1) we believe that the Son precedes existence, physical or otherwise.

 

[Dave-W]

Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever. Hebrews 13:8

That includes a physical body.

 

[icxn]

The likeness to God doesn't refer to our physical body, but to the imitation of His virtues by doing that which is right. The image of God is seen in the qualities of our soul: invisibility, incorruptibility, immortality (the last two are by grace), the will to choose freely etc.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever. Hebrews 13:8

That includes a physical body.

The most obvious proof that your quoted text is not referring to Jesus physical body is that he was born. I remember how small my children were when they were born. Oh how much they changed as they grew. The body is not the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. If it was so, it would not be human.

This is where you start arguing over types vs. physique. I say the most certain aspect of Jesus that has never changed is his Spirit.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Because we believe in the eternal generation of the Son (see John 1:1) we believe that the Son precedes existence, physical or otherwise.

I can understand what you mean that the Son of God precedes his physical existence, but what is otherwise?

 

[FireDragon76]

I can understand what you mean that the Son of God precedes his physical existence, but what is otherwise?

Arianism, the notion that the Son of God is a created being or had a beginning in time. "There was a time when the Son was not" was the slogan for Arianism back in the day.

Arianism implies that Christ was a kind of semi-divine being. It was very much influenced by Greek thought, especially Neo-platonism.

 

[Dave-W]

I can understand what you mean that the Son of God precedes his physical existence, but what is otherwise?

I am not saying that. I am saying that HE had physical form from Eternity Past.

"Let us make man in OUR Image."

What image was there already in existence to make a man? This is AFTER the creation of light and day and night, so we are now in the realm of time.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever. Hebrews 13:8

That includes a physical body.

That is like saying if when I am born I have two legs, but in adulthood would say step on a gernade and loose a leg, that because I was born with two legs, it’s impossible to loose a leg.

Staying the same is not about the physical, but the attributes of holiness and perfection.

The Son is eternal. Therefore, under your guise of staying the same, the Son could never have come down from heaven. Because never changing physically in any way would have not enabled Him to take human form. Because leaving heaven and taking on a physical body is a change in the outer packaging.

The Son existed before the creation of man.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I am not saying that. I am saying that HE had physical form from Eternity Past.

"Let us make man in OUR Image."

What image was there already in existence to make a man? This is AFTER the creation of light and day and night, so we are now in the realm of time.

The image was never about a physical body alone. It is trinitarian in the mind, body and soul. The spiritual aspects that go beyond the physical.

Image does not have to be seen. God’s Word says that God is spirit.

Do you think the Father and Holy Spirit have physical bodies too?

Because it said ‘we’ in ‘our’ image. If Jesus was the only one with a physical body (by your statement) then who else had a physical body to be the “we” and “our”. Those are plural, not singular tense.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

The Son is eternal. Therefore, under your guise of staying the same, the Son could never have come down from heaven. Because never changing physically in any way would have not enabled Him to take human form. Because leaving heaven and taking on a physical body is a change in the outer packaging.

You are arguing with one that thinks the Son of God had a physical body before creation. Such a thing is possible even if not plausible in the context of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:1 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.​

But, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary and born a child that grew in stature, physical and mental. So if you try to use Hebrews 13:8 in a literal way applying to Jesus' physical body, it has some obvious holes. The reading without holes is to apply the verse in the context of Jesus' spirit which is clearly unchanging and eternal.

And in support, you have this verse where Jesus says he was around when Abraham was alive. Obviously he could not have been referring to his physical body.

John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

 

[ToBeLoved]

You are arguing with one that thinks the Son of God had a physical body before creation. Such a thing is possible even if not plausible in the context of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:1 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.​

But, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary and born a child that grew in stature, physical and mental. So if you try to use Hebrews 13:8 in a literal way applying to Jesus' physical body, it has some obvious holes. The reading without holes is to apply the verse in the context of Jesus' spirit which is clearly unchanging and eternal.

And in support, you have this verse where Jesus says he was around when Abraham was alive. Obviously he could not have been referring to his physical body.

John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

That’s what I said too. That’s odd doctrine.

Scripture says that Jesus left heaven. No need for a body in heaven. We won’t even have human like bodies in heaven.

Plus the Father is spirit and the spirit is spirit. Makes little
Sense to me.

 

[HTacianas]

In another thread one said that the Son of God always had a physical body. That at creation, we were made in the likeness of God and since we have physical bodies, that means the Son of God had a physical body when he created us in his image.

What do you think?

I think that if he had a physical body in the beginning, it begs the question "what became of it"?

 

[david.d]

I think it could have been the Son who walked in the garden with Adam and Eve; he probably had a physical appearance when doing so. Also when the angels went to destroy Sodom and Gamorah, it could have been the Son who stayed behind with Abraham in a physical appearance. There are other instances when a physical appearance could have been the Son.

If so, that doesn't mean he had a body, just appeared as one. Do you think God is a bush or a donkey?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I think it could have been the Son who walked in the garden with Adam and Eve; he probably had a physical appearance when doing so. Also when the angels went to destroy Sodom and Gamorah, it could have been the Son who stayed behind with Abraham in a physical appearance. There are other instances when a physical appearance could have been the Son.

If so, that doesn't mean he had a body, just appeared as one. Do you think God is a bush or a donkey?

I think along these lines too. God has taken on forms of some kind throughout scripture, as you referenced the burning bush w Moses and a cloud of light to guide the Israelites and may have been in a form with Melchizedek.

Doesn’t mean God is a plant or vapors of a cloud or light or human.

 

[Ripheus27]

Well, if all matter/energy was condensed during the Big Bang, then the matter/energy that would eventually become that in Christ's human form would have existed from the beginning, and I imagine God would have set this quantity apart, even then (especially then?). Like it was made of energy particles that never decayed into matter particles until the appropriate time, or something like that.

 

[chad kincham]

In another thread one said that the Son of God always had a physical body. That at creation, we were made in the likeness of God and since we have physical bodies, that means the Son of God had a physical body when he created us in his image.

What do you think?

Genesis says, let US make man in OUR image. Note, it doesn't read, let US make man in JESUS' image.

God is a spirit, says scripture, so when He created man, He made Adam an eternal spirit, in His image, and put man's spirit in a mortal home, called our body.

As Paul states in 2 Corinthians ch. 5, our body is a home that we become absent from at physical death, and become present with the Lord.

 

[chad kincham]

Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever. Hebrews 13:8

That includes a physical body.

Yes, but at creation, God the word found in John 1;1 had not yet been born of a virgin into a physical body.

 

[chad kincham]

I think along these lines too. God has taken on forms of some kind throughout scripture, as you referenced the burning bush w Moses and a cloud of light to guide the Israelites and may have been in a form with Melchizedek.

Doesn’t mean God is a plant or vapors of a cloud or light or human.

Actually, since as it is written, God dwells in unapproachable light, no mortal body can survive looking at Gods full glory, thus God hid behind a bush to talk to Moses so he wouldn't be destroyed, and it looked to Moses like the bush was burning.

Similarly, when God the Father traveled with the Israelies, He hid His glory with a cloud, so they wouldn't be destroyed, and at night you could partially see His glory inside the cloud, which made it appear to be a pillar of fire.

This is why it says God went with them as a cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night.

 

[chad kincham]

I think it could have been the Son who walked in the garden with Adam and Eve; he probably had a physical appearance when doing so. Also when the angels went to destroy Sodom and Gamorah, it could have been the Son who stayed behind with Abraham in a physical appearance. There are other instances when a physical appearance could have been the Son.

If so, that doesn't mean he had a body, just appeared as one. Do you think God is a bush or a donkey?

I have no doubt that Jesus made many appearances in the OT, because time is said to be the fourth dimension, and Jesus being God the Word, can easily transcend time, and appear to Moses, Abraham, and Jacob, in the form o a man.

Jesus is the only manifestation of God in the flesh, so when He appeared to Moses "face to face and talked with him as a man talks to a friend", that had to be Jesus in an OT Christophany.

Then in Genesis 18 when YHWH appeared to Abraham as one of three men, and Abraham washes His feet, that was another OT appearance by Jesus.

He negotiates with Abraham about sparing Sodom, and in Gen 19. decides to destroy Sodom, and it says in the Hebrew, that Yahweh (on the earth) rained down fire and brimstone, from Yahweh in heaven.