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Did the Roman Catholic church actually persecute and kill other Christians?

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by reddogs, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    Many today don't believe that the Roman Catholic church actually persecuted and killed other Christians and yet the record is clear it did.

    We see it in the slaughter of the Albigensians which was really the first Roman Catholic crusade intended to slay other Christians. [K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987, 29]The Albigensians...viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and dictates. Then on the command of pope Innocent III in 1209, Bezirs (today France) was destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims including Catholics refusing to turn over their neighbours and friends were up to 70,000. [H.Wollschlger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zrich 1973.179-181]

    In Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands were slain and in subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232to search and destroy any who did not hold to the what the church dictated.

    The Waldensians, and many others were exterminated, in the persecution of the Cathar of Southern Europe, northern Italy, it is estimated one million victims of the . [H.Wollschlger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zrich 1973.183]

    The Spanish Inquisition killed untold numbers and the Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings. Of course we cant leave out John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, who was burned at the stake in 1415.

    In the 15th century we find the Church lauching a persecution against Hussites, with thousands slain. In 1538 pope Paul III declared a crusade against England who had left its domination and all English made as slaves of Church, but England being a island made that a bit difficult to implement. In the 1568, the Spanish Inquisition tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands and thousands were slain. In1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987, 28-31]

    In the Catholic 17th century 30 years' war against the Protestants, at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987.31-32] And its recorded in the Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany, roughly 30,000Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller. [D.Stannard, American Holocaust, Oxford University Press 1992, 191. ]

    Now this does not include the persecution and killing of the Jews which the church to say the least did not discourage and worse were instigated by its bishops or led by its priests. By the 4th and 5th centuries we see the beginning of this phase of the persecution as the Jewish synagogues were burned and many Jews slain. We find in the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388. We find that as a result of the Council of Toledo 694, Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. The Bishop of Limoges (France) in 1010 had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [K.Deschner, Abermals krhte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962. 450-453]

    When the Crusades began, thousands of Jews were slaughtered all through Europe as they marched to the Holy Land or just got together on their way there. History records the killing of the Jews at Worms, Mainz , Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others. [S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977.]

    It continued in the Second Crusade in 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru in France). [WW57] and it continued in the Third Crusade as English Jewish communities were attacked and sacked 1189/90. And in 1257-1267 the Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated.

    The killing of Jews with the churches knowledge if not outright approval continued through all Europe through the 13 century to what we see all the way to World War II by the Nazis. In Spain, Seville's the Jews were killed with the Archbishop Martinez leading. 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear. [K.Deschner, Abermals krhte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962. 454]

    It was widespread in Poland with whole Jewish communities wiped out and the Jews killed. In the Chmielnitzki massacres of 1648 in Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain. And in Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland and in more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive . And all Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France were burned to death. [K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987. 40-43]

    ISIS/ISIL Muslim fanatics have nothing on the persecution of Christians by the Roman Catholic Church.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
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  2. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

    Word of Faith
    My question is does anyone care?
    The condemnation took place on 6 July 1415, in the presence of the assembly of the Council in the Cathedral. After the High Mass and Liturgy, Hus was led into the church. The Bishop of Lodi delivered an oration on the duty of eradicating heresy; then some theses of Hus and Wycliffe and a report of his trial were read.

    Refusals to recant
    An Italian prelate pronounced the sentence of condemnation upon Hus and his writings. Hus protested, saying that even at this hour he did not wish anything, but to be convinced from Holy Scripture. He fell upon his knees and asked God with a low voice to forgive all his enemies. Then followed his degradation — he was enrobed in priestly vestments and again asked to recant; again he refused. With curses his ornaments were taken from him, his priestly tonsure was destroyed, and the sentence was pronounced that the Church had deprived him of all rights and delivered him to the secular powers. Then a high paper hat was put upon his head, with the inscription "Haeresiarcha" (meaning the leader of a heretical movement). Hus was led away to the stake under a strong guard of armed men. At the place of execution he knelt down, spread out his hands, and prayed aloud. It is said that when he was about to expire, he cried out, "Christ, son of the Living God, have mercy on us!"

    I care because no matter how I detest Muslim violence,I would never think of burning them at the stake.
    On a battlefield you do not even commit such bloody atrocities.
  3. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    In Daniel we read that one of the characteristics of the Antichrist is that it would wear out the saints of the Most High:

    And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws (Daniel 7:25).
    The Papacy has a long history of "wearing out" the saints of the Most High. Below is a timeline of the generally aggressive history of the Roman Catholic Church, but the most tragic one that concerns the Word of God is the persecution during the Middle Ages of anyone daring to oppose the Church. The Bible predicts that the saints of the Most High would be persecuted for 1260 years.

    Historian J. A. Wylie said this:
    It is idle in Rome to say, "I gave you the Bible, and therefore you must believe in me before you can believe in it." The facts...conclusively dispose of this claim. Rome did not give us the Bible—she did all in her power to keep it form us; she retained it under the seal of a dead language; and when others broke that seal, and threw open its pages to all, she stood over the book, and unsheathing her fiery sword, would permit none to read the message of life, save at the peril of eternal anathema" J.A. Wylie, History of Protestantism Volume 1 (Virginia: Heartland Publications, 2002): 58.

    During these years of oppression in which the masses were kept in ignorance and the priest held sway over every aspect of life, here and there arose individuals willing to shine a light into the darkness. Christian author Dave Hunt tells us that because they rejected transubstantiation, "Christians were burned at the stake by Roman Catholics by the hundreds of thousands." Dave Hunt, A Cup of Trembling (Eugene, Oregon: Harvest House Publishers, 1995): 160. We find many instances in the historical record:

    The Albigensian 'crusade' in southern France included Albigensian Christians and Catholics were slain. By the time the Roman Catholic armies finished their “crusade,” almost the entire population of southern France (mostly Albigensian Christians) has been exterminated. During the six centuries of papal Inquisition that began in the 13th century, up to 50 million people were killed. Read what J. A. Wylie's The History of Protestantism has to say about the Crusades against the Abigenses

    1540 – 1570 Roman Catholic armies butcher at least 900,000 Waldensian Christians of all ages during this 30-year period.

    1550 – 1560 Roman Catholic troops slaughter at least 250,000 Dutch Protestants via torture, hanging, and burning during this ten-year period.

    1553 – 1558 Roman Catholic Queen Mary I of England (aka “bloody Mary”) attempts to bring England back under the yoke of papal tyranny and during her reign, many good Christian men and woman are burned to death at the sake. Her victims include bishops, scholars, and other Protestant leaders.

    1572 St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre. French Roman Catholic soldiers begin killing Protestants in Paris on the night of August 24, 1572. The soldiers kill at least 10,000 Protestants during the first three days. At least 8000 more Protestants are killed as the slaughter spreads to the countryside.

    1641 – 1649 Eight years of Jesuit-instigated Roman Catholic butchery of Irish Protestants claims the lives of at least 100,000 Protestants.

    1685 French Roman Catholic soldiers slaughter approximately 500,000 French Protestant Huguenots on the orders of Roman Catholic King Louis 14 of France.

    Seems to be the same non care attitude today with ISIS/ISL 'converting' Christians and others in the Middle East.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
  4. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

    Word of Faith
    There is as well mention of the great , .whore drunken on the blood of the saints in revelation.

    I have no malicious intent for Catholicism,most who are Catholic do not even know these things or will discount them to Heresy.
    Many Catholics will be in Heaven those who made Christ the Lord of there life rather that the

    Many denominations have by way of legalism ran people away from God.
    But I cannot think of a more violent one than the Roman Church.

    John Calvin murdered many as well,and was considered a reformer.
    Calvin was influenced by Saint Augustine of Hippo,to me that is not much reformation.
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    United States
    That last line is chilling.

    The RCC has two infallible statements still held to be valid today.

    1. Lateran IV - calling for the extermination of heretics.
    2. The Doctrine of Discovery - calling for the killing of people that are found when exploring new lands - who do agree to convert to Catholicism.

    in Christ,

  6. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    Calvin seems to have gotten Calvinism off to a bad start and Arminius brought it back on course..
  7. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    Well you also have to look into the Inquisition. While many people associate the Inquisition with Spain and Portugal, it was actually instituted by Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) in Rome. A later pope, Pope Gregory IX established the Inquisition, in 1233, to combat the heresy of the Abilgenses in France. By 1255, the Inquisition was in full gear throughout Central and Western Europe.

    Those accused of heresy were sentenced at an auto de fe, Act of Faith. Clergyman would sit at the proceedings and would deliver the punishments. Those who reconciled with the church were still punished and many had their property confiscated, so the churchmen had great financial incentive to find more 'herectics'. Those who never confessed were burned at the stake without strangulation; those who did confess were strangled first. At first, the Inquisition dealt only with Christian heretics and did not interfere with the affairs of Jews. However, disputes about Maimonides’ books (which addressed the synthesis of Judaism and other cultures) provided a pretext for harassing Jews and, in 1242, the Inquisition condemned the Talmud and burned thousands of volumes. In 1288, the first mass burning of Jews on the stake took place in France.

    In 1481 the Inquisition started in Spain and ultimately surpassed the medieval Inquisition, in both scope and intensity. Conversos (Jews who were forcibly converted and appeared to continued to observe the Sabbath) and New Christians were targeted because of their close relations to the Jewish community, many of whom were Jews in all but their name. "New Christians" is a term applied specifically to three groups of Jewish converts to Christianity and their descendants in the Iberian Peninsula. The first group converted in the wake of the massacres in Spain in 1391 and the proselytizing fervor of the subsequent decades. The second, also in Spain, were baptized following the decree of Ferdinand and Isabella in 1492 expelling all Jews who refused to accept Christianity. The third group, in Portugal, was converted by force and royal fiat in 1497. Like the word Conversos, but unlike Marranos, the term New Christian carried no intrinsic pejorative connotation, but with the increasing power of the Inquisition and the growth of the concept of "limpieza de sangre," cleansing the blood, the name signaled the disabilities inevitably heaped on those who bore it.

    The New Christians who continued secretly to observe the precepts of Judaism as much as possible after their conversion were not regarded as voluntary apostates. The basis of this decision was the statement by Maimonides that although one should allow oneself to be put to death rather than abandon one's faith in times of persecution, "nevertheless, if he transgressed and did not choose the death of a martyr, even though he has annulled the positive precept of sanctifying the Name and transgressed the injunction not to desecrate the Name, since he transgressed under duress and could not escape, he is exempted from punishment." In accordance with this ruling, other rabbis ruled that those New Christians who remained in their countries because they were unable to escape and flee, if they conducted themselves in accordance with the precepts of Judaism, even if only privately, were full Jews.

    Fear of Jewish influence led Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand to write a petition to the Pope asking permission to start an Inquisition in Spain. In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain, he set tribunals in many cities. Also heading the Inquisition in Spain were two Dominican monks, Miguel de Morillo and Juan de San Martin.

    First, they arrested Conversos and notable figures in Seville; in Seville more than 700 Conversos were burned at the stake and 5,000 repented. Tribunals were also opened in Aragon, Catalonia and Valencia. An Inquisition Tribunal was set up in Ciudad Real, where 100 Conversos were condemned, and it was moved to Toledo in 1485. Between 1486-1492, 25 auto de fes were held in Toledo, 467 people were burned at the stake and others were imprisoned. The Inquisition finally made its way to Barcelona, where it was resisted at first because of the important place of Spanish Conversos in the economy and society.

    More than 13,000 Conversos were put on trial during the first 12 years of the Spanish Inquisition. Hoping to eliminate ties between the Jewish community and Conversos, the Jews of Spain were expelled in 1492..

    The next phase of the Inquisition began in Portugal in 1536: King Manuel I had initially asked Pope Leo X to begin an inquisition in 1515, but only after Leo's death in 1521 did Pope Paul III agree to Manuel's request. Thousands of Jews came to Portugal after the 1492 expulsion. A Spanish style Inquisition was constituted and tribunals were set up in Lisbon and other cities. Among the Jews who died at the hands of the Inquisition were well-known figures of the period such as Isaac de Castro Tartas, Antonio Serrao de Castro and Antonio Jose da Silva. The Inquisition never stopped in Spain and continued until the late 18th century.

    By the second half of the 18th century, the Inquisition abated, due to the spread of enlightened ideas and lack of resources. The last auto de fe in Portugal took place on October 27, 1765. Not until 1808, during the brief reign of Joseph Bonaparte, was the Inquisition abolished in Spain. An estimated 31,912 heretics were burned at the stake, 17,659 were burned in effigy and 291,450 made reconciliations in the Spanish Inquisition. In Portugal, about 40,000 cases were tried, although only 1,800 were burned, the rest made penance.

    The Inquisition was not limited to Europe; it also spread to Spanish and Portugese colonies in the New World and Asia. Many Jews and Conversos fled from Portugal and Spain to the New World seeking greater security and economic opportunities. Branches of the Portugese Inquisition were set up in Goa and Brazil. Spanish tribunals and auto de fes were set up in Mexico, the Philippine Islands, Guatemala, Peru, New Granada and the Canary Islands. By the late 18th century, most of these were dissolved.

    Sources: Encyclopedia Judaic; "The Spanish Inquisition Gates to Jewish Heritage"; "The Sephardic Jews in Portugal"...