LDS Did the Mormon Jesus (aka Jehovah) lie?

[Peter1000]

1 Peter 3:18-20
"He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.”

You thinking that the spirits in prison that Jesus visited had a choice to accept or reject at that point is not supported at all by Scripture.

Why was Jesus preaching to these spirits, just to hear himself preach?

PhoebeAnn says he was telling them that he had completed his mission on earth. That is great, so Jesus comes to the spirits in prison and tells them that his mission is complete, but you poor dogs will still remain in prison whether you have heard of me or not, accepted me or not, and will go to hell as soon as I can send you there for the ever and ever, but the good news is, I have finished my mission, isn't that wonderful.

 

[Peter1000]

The passage is not confusing to me---I said there is no way that you can come up with your interpretation of the scriptures from just reading these passages.
It's pretty obvious that celestial, just from the definition alone, is dealing with the heavenly and terrestrial is dealing with earthly things. You must twist the meaning of the words in order to come up with your interpretation.

Strong's Greek: 2032. ἐπουράνιος (epouranios) -- of heaven
biblehub.com/greek/2032.htm
Short Definition: heavenly, celestial Definition: heavenly, celestial, in the heavenly sphere, the sphere of spiritual activities; ... Thayer's Greek Lexicon.

Strong's Greek: 1919. ἐπίγειος (epigeios) -- of the earth
biblehub.com/greek/1919.htm
Short Definition: earthly ... -- earthly, in earth, terrestrial. see GREEK epi. see GREEK ge. Forms and Transliterations. ... Strong's Greek 1919

But then, JS had no clue about the Greek language and had to make up his own meanings.

The bodies that Paul is talking about in vs 40-42 are the bodies that will rise with us in the resurrection. This section of 1 Corinthians 15 is about the resurrection.
Paul says that there will be celestial bodies that are comparable to the glory of the sun.
Paul says that there will be terrestrial bodies that are comparable to the glory of the moon.
And Paul says that there will be bodies that will be comparable to the glory of the stars, but does not give a name for these bodies. JS was told that the name of these bodies will be Telestial.

In this section on the resurrection Paul would not be talking about the resurrection of the planets, sun, moon and stars (celestial), or the resurrection of the beasts, fish, earth (terrestrial). But he is talking about the resurrection of men's mortal bodies.
This is an insight into the 3 heavens that LDS talk about. The people that are resurrected into the highest heaven will have celestial bodies, comparable to the glory of the sun.
Those who are resurrected into the next highest heaven will have terrestrial bodies, comparable to the glory of the moon.
Those who are resurrected into the next highest heaven will have telestial bodies, comparable to the glory of the stars.

It is metaphorical look at the comparable glories that people will recieve in the resurrection. But notice that all of these glories are considered heaven. So the vast majority of persons that have ever lived on earth will go to heaven, but it depends on Jesus Christ and them as to which heaven and kind of glorified body they will enjoy for eternity.

Finally, we do not get this information just from the bible. JS recieved this information directly from the Lord Jesus Christ. JS just references the 15th chapter of Corinthians. That is how the apostles received information in the first century church, by revelation from Jesus Christ who was in heaven.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Why was Jesus preaching to these spirits, just to hear himself preach?

PhoebeAnn says he was telling them that he had completed his mission on earth. That is great, so Jesus comes to the spirits in prison and tells them that his mission is complete, but you poor dogs will still remain in prison whether you have heard of me or not, accepted me or not, and will go to hell as soon as I can send you there for the ever and ever, but the good news is, I have finished my mission, isn't that wonderful.

Do you think Jesus went there to preach a sermon or something? The word that you say is "preaching" also means to proclaim (as used in the Scripture quoted). Jesus likely proclaimed the Kingdom of Heaven has come.

The rest of your post just dismisses what the Bible says in Romans 1:20 and forward for a few chapters, as well as Hebrews 9:27. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not true.

 

[Peter1000]

Do you think Jesus went there to preach a sermon or something? The word that you say is "preaching" also means to proclaim (as used in the Scripture quoted). Jesus likely proclaimed the Kingdom of Heaven has come.

The rest of your post just dismisses what the Bible says in Romans 1:20 and forward for a few chapters, as well as Hebrews 9:27. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not true.

As for Romans 1:20 it is that there is no excuse for a person who knows God (see vs 21). Billions of men and women that have been born on this earth have never had the opportunity to know the true and living Christian God. Therefore until they do, they do have an excuse and Jesus in that 3 days preaching to the spirits in prison, bridged the gap between prison and paradise and the prison doors were opened and many did accept and escape, being armed with the gospel of Jesus Christ and having great faith in their God. Jesus proclaimed or preached (either word you wish) his gospel for the purpose of giving those who knew not him the chance to know him and accept him, and rejoice with him in his gospel proclamation.

As for Hebrews 9:27, it does not tell you that the judgement is immediately after death. It seems to me, judgment will not take place until after the millenium and the rule of Jesus for 1,000 years. After that, satan will be finally defeated and the final resurrection will take place and all will be judged according to their works. So you will not die, and find yourself immediately at the judgement bar of God. There is time between death and the resurrecion/judgement.

 

[Anto9us]

Hebrews 9:27 has always been used as a "clobber verse" against reincarnation - but it could be taken as how Peter1000 describes it, or even as the Christian reincarnationists see it.

That is, there is no definite article there in the Greek to conjure up a THE Great White Throne Judgement

The Koine just says 'it is appointed a man once to die and judgement (krisis) after that. Reincarnationists at a Unity Church I used to go to looked at it just like that -- a judgement right after death that in part determines what that soul's next fate is to be -- in whatever state of existence

IOW, they said the verse simply means there is krisis after every death; that the point of the verse was not to declare that "a human being can only die once"; but that there is judgement after death.

 

[Anto9us]

In fact the entire ninth chapter of Hebrews is right up this thread's ally -- contrasting as it does a spiritual tabernacle with the earthly tabernacle that was to be built with the heavenly as a pattern -- and ending with saying it is Christ that only had to die once and unto them that look for Him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[BigDaddy4]

As for Romans 1:20 it is that there is no excuse for a person who knows God (see vs 21). Billions of men and women that have been born on this earth have never had the opportunity to know the true and living Christian God. Therefore until they do, they do have an excuse and Jesus in that 3 days preaching to the spirits in prison, bridged the gap between prison and paradise and the prison doors were opened and many did accept and escape, being armed with the gospel of Jesus Christ and having great faith in their God. Jesus proclaimed or preached (either word you wish) his gospel for the purpose of giving those who knew not him the chance to know him and accept him, and rejoice with him in his gospel proclamation.

Are you God? No? Then how could you possibly know whether or not billions of men and women have encountered God or not? God says they are without excuse, so excuse me if I'll believe God over your nonsensical argument.

As for Hebrews 9:27, it does not tell you that the judgement is immediately after death. It seems to me, judgment will not take place until after the millenium and the rule of Jesus for 1,000 years. After that, satan will be finally defeated and the final resurrection will take place and all will be judged according to their works. So you will not die, and find yourself immediately at the judgement bar of God. There is time between death and the resurrecion/judgement.

You keep telling us what certain Scriptures don't say, then turn around and try to argue a point which is not supported by Scripture! You can't have it both ways.

Hebrews 9:27 is supported by Lazerus and the rich man in Luke 16:19-31. The rich man could not go back and warn his brothers. He made his choice and it could not be changed. His brothers would make theirs and would not be able to change theirs, either. Furthermore, when Jesus said "I never knew you" on "that day" (judgement day) in Matthew 7:15, he didn't give them a chance to repent and change their ways. I think Jesus knows what he is talking about, so I'll believe him.

The lds has no Biblical support for one to change their mind after death. Only a misguided theology spawned by their so-called prophet who wondered if his little brother was in heaven.

 

[Rescued One]

As for Romans 1:20 it is that there is no excuse for a person who knows God (see vs 21). Billions of men and women that have been born on this earth have never had the opportunity to know the true and living Christian God. Therefore until they do, they do have an excuse and Jesus in that 3 days preaching to the spirits in prison, bridged the gap between prison and paradise and the prison doors were opened and many did accept and escape, being armed with the gospel of Jesus Christ and having great faith in their God. Jesus proclaimed or preached (either word you wish) his gospel for the purpose of giving those who knew not him the chance to know him and accept him, and rejoice with him in his gospel proclamation.

As for Hebrews 9:27, it does not tell you that the judgement is immediately after death. It seems to me, judgment will not take place until after the millenium and the rule of Jesus for 1,000 years. After that, satan will be finally defeated and the final resurrection will take place and all will be judged according to their works. So you will not die, and find yourself immediately at the judgement bar of God. There is time between death and the resurrecion/judgement.

Everyone has had the opportunity to reach out to God. After death comes the completely just judgment of God. We don't follow an unjust God.

 

[Rescued One]

It is metaphorical look at the comparable glories that people will recieve in the resurrection. But notice that all of these glories are considered heaven. So the vast majority of persons that have ever lived on earth will go to heaven, but it depends on Jesus Christ and them as to which heaven and kind of glorified body they will enjoy for eternity.

Each person who is deemed worthy by Christ's righteousness will receive the same glory. If you don't believe this, read:

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Thank You
Jesus for all the
Blessings You
have given me
yesterday,
today and
for all of
my tomorrows.

 

[mmksparbud]

The bodies that Paul is talking about in vs 40-42 are the bodies that will rise with us in the resurrection. This section of 1 Corinthians 15 is about the resurrection.
Paul says that there will be celestial bodies that are comparable to the glory of the sun.
Paul says that there will be terrestrial bodies that are comparable to the glory of the moon.
And Paul says that there will be bodies that will be comparable to the glory of the stars, but does not give a name for these bodies. JS was told that the name of these bodies will be Telestial.

In this section on the resurrection Paul would not be talking about the resurrection of the planets, sun, moon and stars (celestial), or the resurrection of the beasts, fish, earth (terrestrial). But he is talking about the resurrection of men's mortal bodies.
This is an insight into the 3 heavens that LDS talk about. The people that are resurrected into the highest heaven will have celestial bodies, comparable to the glory of the sun.
Those who are resurrected into the next highest heaven will have terrestrial bodies, comparable to the glory of the moon.
Those who are resurrected into the next highest heaven will have telestial bodies, comparable to the glory of the stars.

It is metaphorical look at the comparable glories that people will recieve in the resurrection. But notice that all of these glories are considered heaven. So the vast majority of persons that have ever lived on earth will go to heaven, but it depends on Jesus Christ and them as to which heaven and kind of glorified body they will enjoy for eternity.

Finally, we do not get this information just from the bible. JS recieved this information directly from the Lord Jesus Christ. JS just references the 15th chapter of Corinthians. That is how the apostles received information in the first century church, by revelation from Jesus Christ who was in heaven.

If it is truth you want then you can't believe this. If it's JS' believes you want, then believe them. This is not what the bible says---I've given you what those words mean in the Greek and you still refuse to understand. This is not saying we have different glorified bodies, it is saying we have different bodies from the sun, moon and stars, just as birds, fish and animals all have their different bodies. Nowhere does it say, we will have celestial bodies, it does say we will have spiritual bodies.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The whole of 1 Cor 15 is about the resurrection, that is right. But why do you take just a few words and disregard the rest? That is what you do with most verses.
Read everything to get to the truth of what is being said!!

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

JS received nothing from Jesus. Jesus knew the meaning of the words terrestrial and celestial---obviously JS didn't.

 

[Peter1000]

Are you God? No? Then how could you possibly know whether or not billions of men and women have encountered God or not? God says they are without excuse, so excuse me if I'll believe God over your nonsensical argument.


You keep telling us what certain Scriptures don't say, then turn around and try to argue a point which is not supported by Scripture! You can't have it both ways.

Hebrews 9:27 is supported by Lazerus and the rich man in Luke 16:19-31. The rich man could not go back and warn his brothers. He made his choice and it could not be changed. His brothers would make theirs and would not be able to change theirs, either. Furthermore, when Jesus said "I never knew you" on "that day" (judgement day) in Matthew 7:15, he didn't give them a chance to repent and change their ways. I think Jesus knows what he is talking about, so I'll believe him.

Only a misguided theology spawned by their so-called prophet who wondered if his little brother was in heaven.

The lds has no Biblical support for one to change their mind after death.

Except, Jesus did preach to the spirits in prison, who were dead. There is a reason that Jesus did this and not just to proclaim his mission was completed, and to proclaim that they were hellbound. There is reason to believe that he was preaching his gospel to them so that they would repent and have the opportunity to get out of that awful prison. Jesus is both the Lord of the living and the dead. (Romans 14:9)

Yes you are right, JS was interested to find that his older brother was in Celestial Kingdom and wondered how that happened. These are the very incidents that cause reflection and pondering and then asking God how this happened, knowing that he had not had the saving ordinances necessary for salvation.

At first the Lord Jesus Christ told JS that Alvin was in the Celestial Kingdom because God knew Alvin would have accepted what JS was doing to restore the Church of Jesus Christ to the earth again. He died before the church was organized in 1830.

JS still wondered about baptism and other ordinances that were necessary. Did God just put them aside because of a righteous man died before the restoration? The answer came by revelation again which said that all necessary ordinances can be performed by men still on the earth for and in behalf of a person that had died. If the dead person accepts the work done by proxy, he or she will have the same opportunities to progress as if he or she had heard and accepted on earth. This was the mechanism by which God allows all men the opportunity to hear and accept and receive the ordinances for salvation and be saved in the highest Kingdom of God.

LDS believe that Jesus went to preach the gospel in the spirit prison. We also believe that Jesus bridged the gulf that separated Lazarus and the rich man, so that when men repented, they could come out of that prison and be in Abrahams bosom. The bridging of the gulf was the allowance of missionaries from the area where Lazarus dwelled to the area where the rich man dwelled, and where billions of our brothers and sisters dwelled in prison. Then when these missionaries found a repentant person, they were allowed to go into the paradise portion of the spirit world where Lazarus dwelt. To further progress, they would need to accept the proxy baptism done by LDS now and during the millenium in order to enjoy the highest heaven after the judgment. That's how it works, and although not spelled out in easy terms in the bible, JS received this revelation and information directly from our Lord Jesus Christ, as he wondered about his older brother.

Alvin was his older brother, and died before the Lord Jesus Christ organized the church in 1830. His brother Hyrum Smith, stood in as a proxy for Alvin and was baptized and performed other saving ordinances for him in 1841 in Nauvoo.

 

[Peter1000]

If it is truth you want then you can't believe this. If it's JS' believes you want, then believe them. This is not what the bible says---I've given you what those words mean in the Greek and you still refuse to understand. This is not saying we have different glorified bodies, it is saying we have different bodies from the sun, moon and stars, just as birds, fish and animals all have their different bodies. Nowhere does it say, we will have celestial bodies, it does say we will have spiritual bodies.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The whole of 1 Cor 15 is about the resurrection, that is right. But why do you take just a few words and disregard the rest? That is what you do with most verses.
Read everything to get to the truth of what is being said!!

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

JS received nothing from Jesus. Jesus knew the meaning of the words terrestrial and celestial---obviously JS didn't.

It is understood that the mortal corrupt body will be raised a incorruptible spritual body. We know that. So not necessary to go over that point.

One thing is interesting: If verse 40 was talking about planets, sun, moon, stars as the celestial bodies, and beasts, fish, and animals as the terrestrial bodies, it does not make sense in this resurrection chapter.

In verse 41 it talks about the glory of the celestial bodies and the terrestrial bodies. However, all celestial bodies are not comparable to the sun, some are dark planets with no light or life, but dead planets. All terrstrial bodies are not not the same and certainly are not comparable to the glory of the moon. So any reasonable person would know that the bible is trying to tell you something else. JS's explanation came directly from the Lord Jesus Christ, and is superior to any other that you have heard of, but you will not hear from it simply because the name JS is attached to it. Reasonable or not you will not hear from it. Not smart. Because the Lord's explanation makes perfect sense even adding information that the bible lost along the way that makes it even more understandable.

What happens to all the celestial bodies in the resurrection? What happens to all the terrestrial bodies in the resurrection, do you know? What bodies are comparable to the glory of the stars? The Lord gave JS the answer to all of it.

What is interesting is the glory that these resurrected bodies will recieve. It is our belief that some will have a body that is comparable to the glory of the sun, some will have a body that is comparable to the glory of the moon, and finally some will have a body that is comparable to the glory of the stars.
Verses 40-42 is just telling us what our incoruptible body will be like.
Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial bodies.

If you don't think the doctrine is sound, again feel free to ignore it.

 

[Rescued One]

Except, Jesus did preach to the spirits in prison, who were dead. There is a reason that Jesus did this and not just to proclaim his mission was completed, and to proclaim that they were hellbound. There is reason to believe that he was preaching his gospel to them so that they would repent and have the opportunity to get out of that awful prison. Jesus is both the Lord of the living and the dead. (Romans 14:9)

There is no reason to believe that which contradicts God's own word. What you're claiming even contradicts Mormonism: the second estate is mortality, the time to prepare to meet God.

Alma 4
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

Abraham 3
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

Mormons say mortality is the second estate.

Isaiah 38
18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Psalm 6
5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

2 Corinthians 6
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

 

[Peter1000]

Each person who is deemed worthy by Christ's righteousness will receive the same glory. If you don't believe this, read:

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Thank You
Jesus for all the
Blessings You
have given me
yesterday,
today and
for all of
my tomorrows.

It is right that we who believe in Jesus Christ and live our lives in the way he intends us to live and offers us his grace, will lift us all up together and will let us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. There is no doubt that the scripture is true. These JS would call Celestial bodies, and their glory is comparable to the sun.

However, there are a lot of people who are honorable men and women, who will not follow Jesus Christ, mainly because of their traditions, but live lives that are worthy of good Christians. These good people will not be raised up to sit with the followers of Jesus in the Celestial realms, but will be raised up to live in the 2nd heaven, the Terrestrial bodies, and their glory is comparable to the moon. Much less glorified than those of the sun, but nonetheless a glory in and of itself.

There are also people that are not willing to live their lives the way that Jesus intended us to live and were what we might call, the wicked. These will be resurrected also, but only into the 3rd heaven, or the Telestial bodies, with glory comparable to the stars. Not much glory, but still in a part of heaven.

Finally there are those that reject the HS and are pure evil, that will find themselves without glory at all. They are they that will be cast into outer darkness and hell for ever and ever.

So you are right and have given 2 good scriptures. And you are wrong, not knowing or forgetting there are other good people that deserve some form of grace from Jesus, but not his full grace, like you have received and will receive if you stay faithful to Jesus Christ.

 

[mmksparbud]

There are also people that are not willing to live their lives the way that Jesus intended us to live and were what we might call, the wicked. These will be resurrected also, but only into the 3rd heaven, or the Telestial bodies, with glory comparable to the stars. Not much glory, but still in a part of heaven.

Telestial

Telestial is a mobile virtual network operator headquartered in Boston with a large share of North America’s international cell phone market. Telestial also has operations in Australia, the UK and Europe. Telestial works with over 300 companies in the travel industry. Telestial is a provider of international cell phones and SIM cards.

Other than the above---there is no such ting as Telestial. Never mentioned in the bible, certainly not in 1 Cor 15.
Not believing in Testial has noth9ng to do with JS alone. It is just never a concept mentioned anywhere in the bible, not known by anyone but JS, along with all his other made up stories and language. It is not my fault that JS did not know Greek (apparently not too much English either for those words belonged in the English language then, with the same meaning as the Greek fir that is where they came from) and had no idea what 1 Cor meant.

 

[Peter1000]

There is no reason to believe that which contradicts God's own word. What you're claiming even contradicts Mormonism: the second estate is mortality, the time to prepare to meet God.

Alma 4
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

Abraham 3
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

Mormons say mortality is the second estate.

Isaiah 38
18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Psalm 6
5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

2 Corinthians 6
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

I do not contradict the Word of the Lord, which says that Jesus preached unto the spirits in prison. Interpret that how you will. We interpret it one way, you another.

When it talks about this is the day of salvation or this life is the time to prepare to meet God. LDS believe that 'this day' or 'this life' includes this earth life and all time before the resurrection, which includes a temporary dwelling place for your spirit when it leaves your body at death.

At the resurrection, your spirit reunites with your body to form a new perfect incorruptable, body of flesh and bone and spirit. Now you will enjoy the judgment and find out what glory your body will accept and where in heaven they will end up.

LDS does not believe at death you go directly to judgment, and then go to heaven or hell.

 

[Peter1000]

Telestial

Telestial is a mobile virtual network operator headquartered in Boston with a large share of North America’s international cell phone market. Telestial also has operations in Australia, the UK and Europe. Telestial works with over 300 companies in the travel industry. Telestial is a provider of international cell phones and SIM cards.

Other than the above---there is no such ting as Telestial. Never mentioned in the bible, certainly not in 1 Cor 15.
Not believing in Testial has noth9ng to do with JS alone. It is just never a concept mentioned anywhere in the bible, not known by anyone but JS, along with all his other made up stories and language. It is not my fault that JS did not know Greek (apparently not too much English either for those words belonged in the English language then, with the same meaning as the Greek fir that is where they came from) and had no idea what 1 Cor meant.

Then tell me the name of the bodies that are comparable in glory to the stars?

 

[mmksparbud]

Then tell me the name of the bodies that are comparable in glory to the stars?

But that is the point---they are not comparable---that is what it is saying. They are all different.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

All different, each has it own "glory"--so all the resurrection of the dead. Each body is different, the earthy body and the spirituals body.
And there are only 2 words used, celestial and terrestrial---no telestial.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Both are different from each other as are
It is an answer to this:
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
It is about the body after resurrection being way different than our earthy bodies.
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Not a single solitary word about different levels of heaven---just the difference in our bodies post resurrection. It is very clear and if JS had had any spiritual discernment at all, he would have understood it, instead of making up a whole theory about this passage that it never even hints at.

 

[Peter1000]

But that is the point---they are not comparable---that is what it is saying. They are all different.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

All different, each has it own "glory"--so all the resurrection of the dead. Each body is different, the earthy body and the spirituals body.
And there are only 2 words used, celestial and terrestrial---no telestial.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Both are different from each other as are
It is an answer to this:
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
It is about the body after resurrection being way different than our earthy bodies.
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Not a single solitary word about different levels of heaven---just the difference in our bodies post resurrection. It is very clear and if JS had had any spiritual discernment at all, he would have understood it, instead of making up a whole theory about this passage that it never even hints at.

OK, so we now have the names of 2 of the 3 types of bodies in the resurrection. We have celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies, but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.(verse 40)
Verse 41 tells us what the glory of these bodies are comparable to. The celestial bodies are compared to the glory of the sun, and the terrestrial bodies are compared to the glory of the moon. It also says that there is a glory of the stars, but it does not mention its name.

So it makes sense that these 3 glories constitute 3 major divisions in heaven. IOW those who are terrestrial bodies could not withstand the glory of the celestial bodies, therefore they will not dwell in that part of heaven.

It is just like the scriptures say: By grace are ye saved, but we will still be judged according to our works. Our works and the judgment will create the 3 divisions in heaven. We will be resurrected and go to heaven, but according to our works, our bodies will be either celestial or terretrial. (There is a 3rd division where the bodies are compared to the glory of the stars). Those 3rd division bodies will not be able to dwell in the presence of the terrestrial bodies because of the glory that is shining forth is unbearable.

Another way to look at it is 'kinds of a feather, flock together'. You for instance would never be able to dwell with unbelievers. Believers act differntly, do things differently, talk differently, and it would become really uncomfortable to find yourself surrounded by unbelievers. You too, would make them uncomfortable, and they would eventually force you out. The wicked could not stand to be around you, who are holy and perfect and a believer in Jesus Christ. Your body and personality would have too much glory for them to withstand.

That is why there are 3 divisions in heaven, and 1 Corinthians 15, especially verses 40-42 touch upon it. JS is spot on. He should be, he learned it from Jesus Chirst. No man could come up with this doctrine.

 

[mmksparbud]

OK, so we now have the names of 2 of the 3 types of bodies in the resurrection. We have celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies, but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.(verse 40)
Verse 41 tells us what the glory of these bodies are comparable to. The celestial bodies are compared to the glory of the sun, and the terrestrial bodies are compared to the glory of the moon. It also says that there is a glory of the stars, but it does not mention its name.

So it makes sense that these 3 glories constitute 3 major divisions in heaven. IOW those who are terrestrial bodies could not withstand the glory of the celestial bodies, therefore they will not dwell in that part of heaven.

It is just like the scriptures say: By grace are ye saved, but we will still be judged according to our works. Our works and the judgment will create the 3 divisions in heaven. We will be resurrected and go to heaven, but according to our works, our bodies will be either celestial or terretrial. (There is a 3rd division where the bodies are compared to the glory of the stars). Those 3rd division bodies will not be able to dwell in the presence of the terrestrial bodies because of the glory that is shining forth is unbearable.

Another way to look at it is 'kinds of a feather, flock together'. You for instance would never be able to dwell with unbelievers. Believers act differntly, do things differently, talk differently, and it would become really uncomfortable to find yourself surrounded by unbelievers. You too, would make them uncomfortable, and they would eventually force you out. The wicked could not stand to be around you, who are holy and perfect and a believer in Jesus Christ. Your body and personality would have too much glory for them to withstand.

That is why there are 3 divisions in heaven, and 1 Corinthians 15, especially verses 40-42 touch upon it. JS is spot on. He should be, he learned it from Jesus Chirst. No man could come up with this doctrine.

Only man could come up with this doctrine!!
Terrestrial---earthly, celestial---heavenly---stars are celestial! There are no 3 divisions--only 2 and they are named for what they are and you did not even mention why all this came about ---because it was by explanation of
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
What body do they come???
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
That's it! No deep secret, Flat out plain and you repeating the same JS lie over and over, will not change this fact. Our bodies are terrestrial while on earth---natural body---after resurrection---celestial---spiritual. It's more and more obvious, the more you guys say about Mormonism, that there is nothing Godly, spiritual, Holy Spirit led, there is nothing celestial about him---he was totally and completely terrestrial.