LDS Did the Mormon Jesus (aka Jehovah) lie?

[Peter1000]

No wonder I couldn't figure out what you were looking for---no way on this God's earth that you can come up with that kind of an interpretation from reading those scriptures!!

If it so confusing to you, why did you say it was self explanatory?

The only difference between my interpretation and yours is that you say celestial bodies mean the sun, moon, and stars and planets, and the terrestrial bodies are fish, men, beasts, etc.
I say they are our resurrected bodies. That is what chapter 15, in this section is talking about, the resurrection of our bodies.

So that is why I wanted you to tell me what bodies are associated with the glory of the sun?
What bodies are associated with the glory of the moon?
What bodies are associated with the glory of the stars?

You have mentioned what the first 2 bodies are, so just tell me what you think the bodies associated with the glory of the stars is?

 

[Peter1000]

There is no such thing as a telestial body.

Your right that the scripture does not mention the telestial body. What is does mention though, is that their are bodies that are associated with the glory of the stars. JS tells us that the bodies with this glory are telestial.

 

[dzheremi]

Joseph Smith is not a reliable source on anything, in any sense.

 

[Rescued One]

You are right, ask an LDS what that opportunity is. It is what Elijah says is the turning of the hearts to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers. It is a great plan to save everyone that will be saved.

Our God doesn't need to go against His word and provide repentance after death.

 

[Rescued One]

Joseph Smith is not a reliable source on anything, in any sense.

 

[Rescued One]

You are right, ask an LDS what that opportunity is. It is what Elijah says is the turning of the hearts to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers. It is a great plan to save everyone that will be saved.

I am right in that I already explained that there are two kinds of created human bodies: earthly and glorified. There are goats and sheep. There are wicked and righteous. The left and the right of Jesus. Hell and heaven. 1 and 2.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Joseph Smith is not a reliable source on anything, in any sense.

Some said that of Moses and all the prophets, some still say that and include Jesus. Doesn't make them right any more that it makes you right.

 

[Rescued One]

Does it say exactly what he preached to them?

Now you are admitting that you don't know.

It doesn't matter though, because just the idea that he preached to them tells me that he intended to give them knowledge that they did not possess, hence he taught them. If Jesus taught them something, was it for their good? I would think so, otherwise why preach to them?

And He announced to them that He had completed what He came to do. He didn't say, "It's time to repent."

I do not believe that he made his way to the spirits in prison to announce that he had completed what He came to do, and turned away from them and said good-bye, I know there are many of you who do not have any idea who I am, but that was your fault for being born at the wrong time, in the wrong place, I can do nothing for you, but I did want you to know that I have complete my mission. Sorry it didn't work out for you. That is not Jesus's style.

They are in prison instead of in Abraham's bosom.

1. You don't know God's thoughts or ways.
2. People aren't at fault for when and where they are born. Those decisions belong to God.

Acts 17
26 “And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;”

3. Jesus doesn't say, "Sorry it didn't work out for you."

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

We know God is just and omniscient. He doesn't judge unfairly. You're painting a false picture.

Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Men don't die and then accomplish something before judgment. You can't squeeze men's words in between God's words.

 

[Rescued One]

Your right that the scripture does not mention the telestial body. What is does mention though, is that their are bodies that are associated with the glory of the stars. JS tells us that the bodies with this glory are telestial.

No, it says there is an earthly body and a glorified body.

 

[Rescued One]

You are right, ask an LDS what that opportunity is. It is what Elijah says is the turning of the hearts to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers. It is a great plan to save everyone that will be saved.

I'm very familiar with your answer. It's incorrect.

 

[mmksparbud]

If it so confusing to you, why did you say it was self explanatory?

The passage is not confusing to me---I said there is no way that you can come up with your interpretation of the scriptures from just reading these passages.
It's pretty obvious that celestial, just from the definition alone, is dealing with the heavenly and terrestrial is dealing with earthly things. You must twist the meaning of the words in order to come up with your interpretation.

Strong's Greek: 2032. ἐπουράνιος (epouranios) -- of heaven
biblehub.com/greek/2032.htm
Short Definition: heavenly, celestial Definition: heavenly, celestial, in the heavenly sphere, the sphere of spiritual activities; ... Thayer's Greek Lexicon.

Strong's Greek: 1919. ἐπίγειος (epigeios) -- of the earth
biblehub.com/greek/1919.htm
Short Definition: earthly ... -- earthly, in earth, terrestrial. see GREEK epi. see GREEK ge. Forms and Transliterations. ... Strong's Greek 1919

But then, JS had no clue about the Greek language and had to make up his own meanings.

 

[dzheremi]

Some said that of Moses and all the prophets, some still say that and include Jesus. Doesn't make them right any more that it makes you right.

This would almost be a point if all claims were of equal weight and nobody could actually be wrong about anything, but Joseph Smith claimed things that are demonstrably false, so shamelessly blaspheming the name of Christ our God and insulting and degrading the patriarchs and prophets does nothing but dig the hole that Mormonism has put all its partisans in even deeper.

Not to mention that just in terms of logic the claims of any people against any of the persons that you have mentioned could all be 100% true and this would not exonerate nor support Joseph Smith. The two (Biblical figures and Joseph Smith) are quite simply not related.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Ok, so I'm trying to understand you beliefs here. This is what I got so far, please let me know if I'm getting anything wrong.

1) You believe that accepting Christ is essential to salvation -- it is the only way.
2) Without accepting Christ, a person is damned.
3) There is no chance to accept Christ after this life: when you die that's it.

Is that right?

1 & 3 are correct and are in accordance with the Bible. #2 you are injection your judgement into who is saved and who is not. Millions of people lived before Christ, so I will not make that call. I cannot and will not make that determination on who is damned. Romans says God has made himself known to all, so all are without excuse. It also says what God will do with those who have not heard of Jesus. God has the final say, not me.

 

[BigDaddy4]

LDS firmly believe that God gives the opportunity for EVERYONE to hear the Gospel, even if it's not in this life. God is a loving Father who's not going to condemn anyone to Hell unless they choose to reject Christ.

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[BigDaddy4]

How do you figure that when there's millions and millions of people who've never even heard the name "Jesus"?

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Seeking clarification here: you believe person can be saved, not by having faith in Christ, but living as the best Christ-like Muslim they can? (Just for one example)

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I still feel like I'm misunderstanding you here. You're making this sound like "if they listen to this little voice in their head, that counts as having faith in Christ, even if they are active practicing Hindus." Is that right?

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I think part of the reason I'm having so much trouble "getting" your POV here is that I feel like I've listen to lots of "Christ can't have prophets and revelation in any where by ancient Middle East" talk from the mainstream Christians on this forum. This Eskimno perspective is... the different views aren't aligning super automatically.

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

What you struggle with, is the Biblical POV vs. the lds POV.

 

[BigDaddy4]

If LDS gives people false hopes, then why did Jesus go to preach to the 'spirits in prison' during his 3 days before he was resurrected?

Apparently Jesus was giving them more than just hope. He was preaching his gospel to those that did not have the opportunity to hear it here on earth. Did some accept after death and were let out of the prision? Yes. Did some reject and not get out of prison? Yes. But at least they had a choice, after they were dead on this earth and in the afterlife.

1 Peter 3:18-20
"He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.”

You thinking that the spirits in prison that Jesus visited had a choice to accept or reject at that point is not supported at all by Scripture.

 

[Peter1000]

Joseph Smith is not a reliable source on anything, in any sense.

Just your opinion, of course.

You have not studied JS with sincerety and honesty. So your opinion on the matter does not mean a lot to one who has.

Study JS with as much passion as you have studied the apostles, the apostolic fathers, and the church fathers, and you will convert to Mormonism.