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Featured Did the incarnation happen upon conception or birth?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by DamianWarS, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Conception

    27 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. Birth

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Devoted to Truth Supporter

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    Emmanuel, God with us ... transfer being done at conception. Savior announced to the world by angelic beings at birth. Only begotten to bring in thru adoption all those who identify with the death of the Son of God who is the first born of many who have become the family of God thru the action of the Holy Spirit on mankind.
     
  2. iwbswiaihl

    iwbswiaihl Newbie

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    Everyone does not go by the creeds given by others, we walk and believe what the word of God declares, and I do believe that Jesus has always been in the bosom of the Father and have stated His eternal position in the Godhead. I simply posted what I see the scriptures saying, and allow others to post their beliefs, and neither is restricted from following their understanding of the word, but there are no contradictions in the word of God. Opposing beliefs mean someone is wrong, and it is not the scriptures. I agree to disagree, each tub must sit on its own bottom. Amos 3:3 can two walk together except they agreed?
     
  3. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is none other. He moves when and where HE wills.

    Forgive me...
     
  4. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

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    Ecclesiastes 6:3-6 (KJV2000) "If a man begets a hundred children, and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, and his soul is not filled with good, and also that he has no burial; I say, that a stillborn birth is better than he. For he comes in with vanity, and departs in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness. Moreover he has not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this one has more rest than the other."

    Blessings
     
  5. Saved.By.Grace

    Saved.By.Grace Member

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    Are you referring to the term "μονογενὴς" (one and only, unique) in the sense of "begetting", as in the Father eternally "begetting" the Son? The phrase "true God of true God" as from the early Church creeds, is not what the Holy Bible teaches, as it uses the Greek preposition, "εκ", which denotes, "out of" as in "from a source", which teaches a subordination of the Person of Jesus Christ within the Godhead, which is an impossibility. Jesus Christ as His Incarnation became the God-Man, and not simply "man". He did not cease to be Almighty God, but "took on Himself" the "nature of Man", while retaining the "nature of God", as Paul teaches in Philippians 2:5-8. Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man, apart from any sin in His human nature.
     
  6. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    so then the incarnation was at conception... I'll leave the rest up to Jesus
     
  7. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Or before... depending on the point of view. What would be the purpose of saying that "HE" prepared for himself a Holy Temple within her.

    See what I mean?

    I love a good mystery.

    Forgive me...
     
  8. jax5434

    jax5434 Member

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    I did not vote because as I said this is not an issue essential to salvation.
    The question was not "when can the Holy Spirit interact with someone?" but rather, when did God the Son the 2nd part of the Trinity become incarnate. In the Jewish culture to which he was born in that would have been the moment the newborn child took its' first breath.


    God Bless
    Jax
     
  9. Saved.By.Grace

    Saved.By.Grace Member

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    The Incarnation of Jesus Christ refers to the time when Jesus, the eternal God, took upon Himself the nature of a human Man, which He actually derived from the virgin Mary. In Matthew 1:16 we are clearly told, "Μαρίας, ἐξ ἧς ἐγεννήθη Ἰησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος χριστός", (Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ), the phrase "ἐξ ἧς" (of whom) is very important. Firstly it is in the feminine gender, and singular in number, which can only refer to Mary and not Joseph, who had no part in the physical conception of Jesus Christ. Secondly, the Greek preposition ""ἐξ" literally means "out of" as from a "source", which in this case is the "nature of Mary", therefore Jesus becoming at His "conception" in Mary's womb, the God-Man. Matthew 1:18, and Luke 1:35 (King James Version, which includes the two important words, "of you", which was removed by early heretics), tell us that Jesus' "conception" was by God the Holy Spirit. The actual "birth" of Jesus Christ is no miracle, as He was born as any other child is. It is His "conception" in the womb of the virgin Mary, apart from any human "father", that is the miracle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  10. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    perhaps I should approached it from a different angle. Which of the following is incorrect:

    1) the incarnation happened during conception
    2) the incarnation happened during birth
     
  11. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When did Christ take on a human form?
    Orthodox Christianity teaches that was at the moment Mary replied to Gabriel, "Let it be unto me as you have said."

    Forgive me...
     
  12. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    The incarnation happened at conception because His conception came by the Holy Spirit, not man's seed.
    Second person of the Triune God, and only person of the Triune God. For God the Father is Energy alone, The Word is the physical manifest station of the energy and the Holy spirit is the mutual love between them both. The Word becoming flesh , has nothing to do with the fact Yeshua, Ancient of ancients could manifest anywhere at any time in our history , as He is.

    The purpose of His coming in the form of a man, born of a woman ,and living in the natural world to experience mans plight of life experiences and death, is to show us that we can conquer both sin and death. Though we are man we through the applications and teaching's of the SON OF MAN who is truly man and divine at this point , because he was conceived in the womb of Mary and born a natural mans birth through her flesh. This is where the flesh part of the Son of Man comes from. The Incarnation is the Holy Spirit seed placed into the egg , IMMACULATE CONCEPTION.

    This occurrence spontaneously made Mary Immaculate as well. Nothing is impossible for God. It is the fulfillment of the prophecy of Genesis 3:15" I will put enmity between you and the WOMAN, and between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise His heel." The Woman was Mary, the enmity was the Holy Spirit, her seed was Christ, the serpents seed was the knowledge of evil- SIN, and is why God the Father said "He shall bruise your head" = conquer his knowledge (Satan's knowledge and reign over Man.) Our Messiah was promised in Genesis, from the beginning. And through Mary we would receive our NEW BEGINNING, becoming BORN AGAIN!
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  13. Saved.By.Grace

    Saved.By.Grace Member

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    The second cannot ever be right, unless you believe that Jesus Christ was born a mere man, in Whom God dwelt!
     
  14. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    The question and answer are essential to salvation for this pertains to the belief that Jesus came in the flesh. Aversion of this is the spirit of antchrist, for spirits are tested by the profession of "Christ came in the flesh." Jewish culture has nothing to do with the doctrinal truth which is " The WORD OF GOD."
     
  15. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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  16. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "When" is not part of the DOGMATIC statement. "When" does not have to do with our salvation. We are only required to acknowledge that HE became incarnate. And even then, ignorance will suffice as long as we do not argue against that HE became incarnate.

    Forgive me...
     
  17. Saved.By.Grace

    Saved.By.Grace Member

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    Not quite so. If a person does not believe that Jesus Christ, the eternal God, became fully Man, while remaining fully God, AT the time of His "conception" in the womb of Mary, then they have a belief in a false Incarnation and false Messiah, Who could not have been the God-Man that the Holy Bible clearly teaches. Jesus' Incarnation did NOT start at His "birth", as this would make Him a mere man in whom God dwelt, with is a heresy!
     
  18. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    I was talking about the question posed in the poll and referring to the "When" of Incarnation. I believe it is important to know when, to prevent scriptural or presented Dogmatic instituted interpretations that are in error. To say Christ became Incarnated only at birth, would deny the divinity of Him ,and make Him merely a natural Man. It is the conception of Him by the Holy Spirit that makes Him Divine, "The-Jesus came in the flesh- profession" Order of events are necessary to understanding the profession. Natural birth, is what the statement I replied to implied. The understanding of "When" supports the "How". Jewish tradition matters not.
     
  19. jax5434

    jax5434 Member

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    1 John 4:2 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
    No one on this thread has denied that Jesus came in the flesh. To do so would be heresy.
    Please be careful of your accusations.
    God Bless
    Jax
     
  20. Saved.By.Grace

    Saved.By.Grace Member

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    what are you on about? I am stating a Bible fact and nowhere do I accuse anyone in my remark. Your Scripture quote does not fit what I am saying anyway!
     
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