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Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, May 23, 2019.

Did event of Israel 1948 fulfill any Bible prophecy?

  1. No

    45.2%
  2. Yes

    47.9%
  3. I don't know

    6.8%
  4. Other

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  1. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    You miss the fact of what is being said at Galatians 3...and even more!

    The seed of Abraham being referred to IS CHRIST....the passage clearly says so. Galatians 3:15-18:
    15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
    16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
    17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
    18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.


    The point here is the promise to Abraham and his SEED, is Christ...THE ONLY SEED God has in mind so Paul closes out with this tremndous statement at Galatians 3:29:
    29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

    The only way to get around this point that all in Christ are Abraham's seed is to tear out a whole lot of passages like:

    Romans 2-4, Romans 9-11, Ephesians 1-2, Philippians 3:2-3. The fact is...any Jew or Gentile that is in Christ, has a circumcised heart, and are the seed of Abraham which is Christ. They are spiritual Jews, (so to speak).
     
  2. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    All that you said I agree to except that we are spiritual Jews! No we are spiritual gentiles!

    Yes one of the many covenants God made with Abraham is about the Promised seed which you are talking about here and I agree.

    We are heirs according to eh promise (all nations shall be blessed in Abraham) but we are not children by blood of which there are still binding covenants God made!

    there are 8 covenants in the Bible 3 are for all mankind and 5 are for Israel!

    The 5 for Israel are
    The Abrahamic covenant
    the Mosaic covenant
    The Palestinian or land covenant
    The davidic Covenant and the New covenant!

    Of these only the Mosaic covenant is conditional and is now voided and fulfilled in Jesus! The other four God bound Himself to fulfill them and He will!

    An excellent study that shows all the Scriptures is found here:

    http://www.arielm.org/dcs/pdf/mbs021m.pdf

    Hopes this helps you to see that calling Christians "Spiritual Jews" is a misnomer!
     
  3. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Gods criteria for a natural Jew (not a proselyte) is they are born of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! This would make them a blood Jew! This was the formula in the OT and is still in effect today though relaxed by many of the rabbis.
     
  4. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well I see you are a true covenantal theologian and hold strongly to replacement theology and allegorical interpretation.

    I am surprised you are not fearful that God will remove believers from your alleged future path.

    If you believe god would yank Hos eternal promises to Israel, then we have no hope that God would keep His promises to the Body of Christ!

    It willbe glorious if we get to see the rise of satans physical son whom we call the antichrist! It will be glorious if we see the one world government, and then that government fail and give rise ot the 10 horns or rulers of the globe and then the military rise of the antichrist!

    But we will not see Him make the 7 year treaty with the nation of Isarael for the Bride will be yanked sometime between right now and before the ink dries and that covenant the State of Israel makes with the antichrist!
     
  5. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not according to Genesis 17:12. God's formula extended His Covenant to both Jew and Gentile alike, without ethnic distinction. Nowhere does Scripture claim that His Covenants are restricted to only the "blood Jew".

    His Covenants are contingent upon spiritual DNA -- faith and obedience -- alone.

    That has been true since the dawn of Covenant history.
     
  6. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wrong!

    Genesis 17 the covenant is between Abraham and his physical seed (Isaac) then God confirmed to Isaac and then to Jacob !

    Genesis 17 King James Version (KJV)
    17 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

    2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

    3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

    4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

    5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

    6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

    7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

    And Abraham is a father of many nations! they are known as the 12 tribes of the Arab peoples, who number about 1 billion.

    His spiritual children are the promised believers of the gentile nations.

    do the words "blood Jew" appear? No but it describes the people whom God made 5 specific and distinct covenants with, the physical children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! ! was conditional on Israel and that covenant was broken and removed (the Mosaic) The other four are called unconditional and God bound HImself to fulfill them apart from Israels obedience.

    I encourage you to study this small treatise: http://www.arielm.org/dcs/pdf/mbs021m.pdf

    and if you can see the truth in that small study I encourage you to get the text: "Israelology, the missing link in Systematic theology" by the same author. It is a weighty work (1300+ pages) but it shows dispensation and covenant theology and shows why covenant theology is weak!
     
  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why did you neglect to include verse 12?

    Here it is again:

    Genesis 17
    12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

    Circumcision was God's Covenant sign.

    It was extended to those born in Abraham's house, i.e. Jews.

    It was also extended to those not of Abraham's seed, i.e. Gentiles.

    Physical DNA was not and has never been a covenant criterion.

    Only spiritual DNA -- faith and obedience -- qualifies.
     
  8. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Both assumptions are wrong.
    I only hold to the New Covenant with Jesus and the Promises of God now belong to Christians.
    I only see allegories in prophecy when that is obvious. All the rest is literal and will literally happen, even the allegories can be explained and will also take place as prophesied.
    This is all quite wrong.
    The State of Israel will be no more after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Ezekiel 21:1-26, +
    Nowhere does the Bible say the Church will be removed from the earth.
     
  9. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    While Paul's reference to seed was in terms of the Messiah, the singular "seed" can be used in a singular or plural sense in other passages. For instance Daniel 2:43. Something other than the seed of men, and "they" as in a plural group, is mingling with the seed of men (also plural), and not just the seed of a man. So the word seed can indeed be plural depending on the context.

    So while Paul does apply it to Messiah, the promises were not limited to only the Messiah. The "I will bless them that bless you and curse those who curse you" had an intended application to all the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And it is the basis for the future judgement of the nations in Joel 3 and Matthew 25. And that promise is not conditional only the righteous decendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but all the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All the Hebrews are a litmus test for the entire world.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  10. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    See posts 882 and 888.

    We're all Hebrews. Rejoice.
     
  11. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    You may be, but I am not.... physically. I am one from the nations, a wild branch grafted in and feeding off the root of the patriarchs. The example of the Faith of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Abraham believed the Lord and it was the basis of him being righteous before the Lord. I am not one of those who claim to be a Jew and am not.

    Amazing, I wonder why so many didn't make the claim about being Hebrews under the Tzars, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc. Only when it is convenient and low risk do some folks publicly take that approach. But when there is a risk to life and limb, they reject being Hebrew with the next breath.

    And this little statement can be applied to this topic. Most have heard the statement "if one were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict?" Well, the same thing can be said here.... "if one claims to be Hebrew, and it was illegal, would there be enough evidence to convict?"
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mathematics and genetics are not based upon what people “claim”.

    They are scientific disciplines which originated in the mind of God, who is the Author of all science.

    The reality of Abrahamic genetic ubiquity is established in mathematics, and verified in genetics.

    People's “claims” which reject these God-originated disciplines are invariably proven to err.
     
  13. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Right.
     
  14. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    We don't reject the math and the genetic ubiquity of all humans.
    What is the truth, however is that God does know who the descendants of the people He originally chose to be His witnesses to the world. How He does that and with what criteria, we cannot tell.
    I posted 2 plain scriptures: Matthew 8:11-12 and Malachi 3:6-7 that say there is a people who are born into the Kingdom and that God does not change.
    Added to those are these:
    Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will show compassion for Jacob and will once again make Israel His choice....
    Jacob, Israel; the father of the 12 tribes, far more than just the Jews.
    Isaiah 65:8-16...as there is juice in a cluster of grapes....I will give descendants to Jacob and to Judah; heirs who will posses My holy Land...those who serve Me will live there. But you who forsake the Lord......I shall destine you for the Sword, they will not enter the Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38
    There are, in fact over 160 verses in the Bible that tell us about God's plans for His people, a people who don't know their ancestry, but have come back to God through the Way given to us by Jesus.
    Those who claim to be Israel and live in the Jewish State of Israel, are not true Israelites as their known ancestry and their rejection of Jesus precludes it.
    Jesus' Words prove it: Luke 19:27, Revelation 3:9 and Paul says in Romans 2:26 that the real Jew is one who is circumcised of the heart.
     
  15. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    The Revelation 3:9 reference could very well mean those who hold to a replacement theology as opposed to using it to support an idea that those who claim to be Israel are not so. Paul also has issues with gentiles laying claim to some aspects reserved to the Hebrew people and warns gentile believers to not think too highly of their relationship with Yeshua that they would look down on the Hebrew people.

    But what of Messianic Jews who live in Israel? They claim to be the same Jews as any other Jews in Israel, the only difference is they have acknowledged Yeshua as the promised Messiah. So they claim to be Israel and live in the Jewish state of Israel, then are they not true Israelites?

    And did not Ezekiel say that when Israel is restored, it would be initially in unbelief, no spirit in them? So for that to be the case, then it would seem that modern Israel fits that mold.
     
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    False.

    John 13
    34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
    35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    True.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  17. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Sure they are, many thousands of them. They will be the survivors, Isaiah 29:1-4, and the remnant, Romans 9:27
    Try actually reading Ezekiel 37. That prophecy is clear; first the Spiritual regeneration, then the rejoining, Jeremiah 50:3-4, THEN the Restoration into the holy Land.
    Modern Israel is a fake and many prophesies tell of their demise.
    Perhaps you could give us the benefit of how all men know that you are the Lord's disciple.

    jgr, why are the facts I have posted insufficient for you to at least, consider the idea of God having a special people, those who have freely chosen to believe Him and keep His Commandments? And that they just may be those who are directly descended from the original Israelite people?
    Actually if it isn't like that, then much of the Bible is stuffed with useless and redundant details about Israel. And it isn't because we see them to the fore again in Revelation 7, 12 and 14 +
     
  18. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well if you consider it wrong- you have allegorized away most of OT prophesy! Israel the people and not teh church are Gods' covenanted people. He made specific eternal covenants not conditioned on Israels obedience.

    Every Jew alive at the last three days of the 70th week (the great trib) which is for Daniels people- the physical descendants of Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, will come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and will say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!" It is this declaration by Israel that prompts the Lord Jesus' return to earth! IN fulfillment of prophesy

    Matthew 23:37-39 King James Version (KJV)
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

    39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    Romans 11 King James Version (KJV)
    11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

    3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

    4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

    5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

    9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

    10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

    13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

    14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

    15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

    16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

    17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

    18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

    19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

    21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

    22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

    24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

    29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
     
  19. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because Circumcision was required!

    And yes DNA is THE criterion! Teh covenant was made to Abraham, reconfirmed with Isaac and His seed forever and then through Jacob and his seed forever.

    Genesis 12:1-3
    Genesis 12:7
    Genesis 13:14-17

    The land is for the descendants of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob only! The stranger had no right to land in Israel.

    Gen. 22:15-18 reconfirms this promise

    circumcision is not the sign- as other nations circumcised. But circumcision on the eighth day which was reserved only for the Jew! NOt the gentile with them.

    The covenant reconfirmed through Isaac: Gen. 26:2-5, 24

    And then Jacob (Israel) : Gen. 28:13-15

    I encourage you read out this study: http://www.arielm.org/dcs/pdf/mbs021m.pdf

    It goes into detail into the covenants shows which are conditional and which are unconditional and why. The only conditional covenant God made with Israel was the Mosaic and that was rendered inoperative through Jesus!

    But God went through great detail to sdpell out these covenants.

    We must remember that the New covenant is a covenant with Israel as it replaced the conditional Mosaic Covenant:

    Jeremiah 31:31-32 King James Version (KJV)
    31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    We Gentiles are beneficiaries of the covenant but it was not made to the gentile but to the Jew!
    Gentiles are beneficiaries

    Hebrews 8:8
    For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenantwith the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Hebrews 8:13
    In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    Hebrews 12:24
    And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    MAtt. 26:
    26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

    27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

    28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
     
  20. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Correct.

    What has gone on thru history is that there have been many attempts to eliminate Jacob (Israel). When that didn't work, then the move came to marginalize and negate them as a people and make another people appear to be the true Israel. And in doing so, provide the fuel for anti-semitic activities that have gone on thru history. First to prevent Yeshua from coming the first time and now to prevent Yeshua from coming the second time. In both instances, Israel is the conduit for Him to come. And many seem to hate that idea.

    All of it for one purpose... to prevent Messiah from returning, since it will take a non-believing Hebrew people to recognize their rejection of Yeshua and petition for His return before He will. If Satan can eliminate the Hebrew people, then he can prevent Yeshua from returning.

    Yeshua in Hosea 5 and Matthew 23 pretty much makes that clear. And it flies in the face of the ideas that go around. Hosea 5:14 makes it clear that both Judah and Ephraim (Israel) is in view. Hosea 5:15 makes it clear that Yeshua will return to His place until they (both) acknowledge their (both) rejection and call on Him. And "in their (both) affliction" likely is a reference to the "time of Jacob's trouble" of Jeremiah 30. Hosea 6 then talks about them (both) being chastised and that they would return after 2 days. On the third day they would be raised up. When one applies 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalms 90:4 to Hosea, the picture emerges of the period after Yeshua's return to His place and the last almost 2000 years. And Yeshua in Matthew 23, talking about how He wanted to gather them to Him and they would not have any part of it, then tells them that they will not see Him again (as the one who will gather them to Him) until they recite Psalms 118 and proclaim "blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord."

    If the believers make up "Israel", then when did the believers reject Yeshua and when will the believers then acknowledge that offense and return to Yeshua? It makes no sense. So the idea that the believers now make up physical, earthly Israel doesn't line up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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