Did The 120 In The Upper Room ALL Receive The "Sign Gifts"?

[Major1]

For years, I have been told, by many preachers of the Pentecostal persuasion, and many others, that the 120 in Acts 1:15 received the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit!" and all were given the "Sign Gifts" because they were all filled with Holy Spirit.

However, all one has to do is look at the context of Acts 1-6 and he can see clearly that the 120 did not receive the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit."

In Acts 1:2 the word Apostles is used and the "them" in Acts 1:3 refers to the apostles. So, also, is the pronoun "you" found in Acts 1:4. It is said to the apostles, in Acts 1:5..............., "for John indeed baptized with water; but YOU shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence." This promise is made to the apostles.

It was the apostles who continued to take the lead form the church's beginning. They performed miracles, Acts 3. They raised the dead. They were not hurt by poison water or poisonous snakes. They healed the sick.

It is stated that "by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch," in Acts 5:12.

So, all of the emphasis is placed on the "twelve" and it was the "Twelve" who were given the "Sign Gifts" of healing and tongues and not the 120.

The 120 people are not included because they did not receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit," given in Acts 2:1-4. Now, there will be those who claim the 120 receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit," but this my friends cannot be proved from the New Testament! Only the apostles were baptized with the baptism of the Holy Spirit receiving the Sign Gifts in and that is what the New Testament affirms.http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/120ReceivedTheBaptismOfTheHolySpirit.html

 

[Dave-W]

First off, I do not believe the outpouring in Acts 2 took place in the upper room. There is no where in those narrow streets for 3000 or more people to have heard Peter speak. And there is no where for them to get water baptized.

But at the Temple Mount, there was PLENTY of room for 10s of thousands to have heard him, and hundreds of baptismal pools. Pentecost (Shavuot in Hebrew) was a harvest festival and it also commemorated the giving of the 10 commandments on Sinai. If you read the 2 accounts together, it is striking how similar they are. Fire. On the Mountain. (Assuming the Temple Mount). Jewish tradition states the Decalogue was spoken in 70 languages due to the “mixed multitude.”

As to it being ONLY the 12, then Paul’s words in 1 Cor 12 and 14 are pointless. And what was it that Peter et al saw with Cornelius and family when the Holy Spirit came on them? In Acts 18 Paul prayed for a bunch of guys who ha not heard of the Holy Spirit. But after being rebaptized, the Holy Spirit came on them too.

But we really have to go back to where that was all promised: Joel 2. “Your sons and daughters shall prophesy...”. Were there any daughters in the 12????

 

[Dave L]

For years, I have been told, by many preachers of the Pentecostal persuasion, and many others, that the 120 in Acts 1:15 received the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit!" and all were given the "Sign Gifts" because they were all filled with Holy Spirit.

However, all one has to do is look at the context of Acts 1-6 and he can see clearly that the 120 did not receive the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit."

In Acts 1:2 the word Apostles is used and the "them" in Acts 1:3 refers to the apostles. So, also, is the pronoun "you" found in Acts 1:4. It is said to the apostles, in Acts 1:5..............., "for John indeed baptized with water; but YOU shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence." This promise is made to the apostles.

It was the apostles who continued to take the lead form the church's beginning. They performed miracles, Acts 3. They raised the dead. They were not hurt by poison water or poisonous snakes. They healed the sick.

It is stated that "by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch," in Acts 5:12.

So, all of the emphasis is placed on the "twelve" and it was the "Twelve" who were given the "Sign Gifts" of healing and tongues and not the 120.

The 120 people are not included because they did not receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit," given in Acts 2:1-4. Now, there will be those who claim the 120 receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit," but this my friends cannot be proved from the New Testament! Only the apostles were baptized with the baptism of the Holy Spirit receiving the Sign Gifts in and that is what the New Testament affirms.http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/120ReceivedTheBaptismOfTheHolySpirit.html

I'm confused about whether I can reply to this question or not. I'm non-denominational but have some insight in this matter.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Acts 2:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon only the Apostles and your sons and your daughters shall not prophesy because they are not Apostles, and your young men shall not see visions, and your old men shall not dream dreams, because these are reserved for the 12 Apostles only.

18 And on my 12 Apostles only I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost because it is reserved for us Apostles.

39 For the promise is unto the Apostles, and not to your children, nor to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

This would be how those who think that only the Apostles received the baptism of the Holy Spirit would like Peter to have said.

 

[mark kennedy]

For years, I have been told, by many preachers of the Pentecostal persuasion, and many others, that the 120 in Acts 1:15 received the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit!" and all were given the "Sign Gifts" because they were all filled with Holy Spirit.

However, all one has to do is look at the context of Acts 1-6 and he can see clearly that the 120 did not receive the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit."

In Acts 1:2 the word Apostles is used and the "them" in Acts 1:3 refers to the apostles. So, also, is the pronoun "you" found in Acts 1:4. It is said to the apostles, in Acts 1:5..............., "for John indeed baptized with water; but YOU shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence." This promise is made to the apostles.

It was the apostles who continued to take the lead form the church's beginning. They performed miracles, Acts 3. They raised the dead. They were not hurt by poison water or poisonous snakes. They healed the sick.

It is stated that "by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch," in Acts 5:12.

So, all of the emphasis is placed on the "twelve" and it was the "Twelve" who were given the "Sign Gifts" of healing and tongues and not the 120.

The 120 people are not included because they did not receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit," given in Acts 2:1-4. Now, there will be those who claim the 120 receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit," but this my friends cannot be proved from the New Testament! Only the apostles were baptized with the baptism of the Holy Spirit receiving the Sign Gifts in and that is what the New Testament affirms.http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/120ReceivedTheBaptismOfTheHolySpirit.html

Each of the eleven Apostles came out speaking a specific language, that we know from the nations in the list of those who heard. Every Christian is given a gift of grace to build up the church and it need no be tongues or anything all that dramatic.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Each of the eleven Apostles came out speaking a specific language, that we know from the nations in the list of those who heard. Every Christian is given a gift of grace to build up the church and it need no be tongues or anything all that dramatic.

So you are saying that Joel and Peter were wrong when Peter quoted Joel and said that the baptism with the Spirit (including all the gifts) were available to all believers?

Perhaps the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit in every believer is something to be spiritual discerned, and those who don't believe that don't have spiritually discernment? Then, if there is no spiritual discernment, that person's religion is all in the natural and not in the Spirit. Does that mean that the person is not living or walking in the Spirit, but is still living and walking in the flesh?

 

[Major1]

I'm confused about whether I can reply to this question or not. I'm non-denominational but have some insight in this matter.

I do not see how your stance on denominalism would be a concern on what the Bible says my brother.

 

[Major1]

Each of the eleven Apostles came out speaking a specific language, that we know from the nations in the list of those who heard. Every Christian is given a gift of grace to build up the church and it need no be tongues or anything all that dramatic.

Agreed.

 

[Major1]

First off, I do not believe the outpouring in Acts 2 took place in the upper room. There is no where in those narrow streets for 3000 or more people to have heard Peter speak. And there is no where for them to get water baptized.

But at the Temple Mount, there was PLENTY of room for 10s of thousands to have heard him, and hundreds of baptismal pools. Pentecost (Shavuot in Hebrew) was a harvest festival and it also commemorated the giving of the 10 commandments on Sinai. If you read the 2 accounts together, it is striking how similar they are. Fire. On the Mountain. (Assuming the Temple Mount). Jewish tradition states the Decalogue was spoken in 70 languages due to the “mixed multitude.”

As to it being ONLY the 12, then Paul’s words in 1 Cor 12 and 14 are pointless. And what was it that Peter et al saw with Cornelius and family when the Holy Spirit came on them? In Acts 18 Paul prayed for a bunch of guys who ha not heard of the Holy Spirit. But after being rebaptized, the Holy Spirit came on them too.

But we really have to go back to where that was all promised: Joel 2. “Your sons and daughters shall prophesy...”. Were there any daughters in the 12????

Acts 2 was not the fulfillment of Joel 2 my dear brother.

Read Joel again and then Acts and tell me if the Sun turned to blood and the earth shook.
Was there signs in the sky???

 

[Major1]

So you are saying that Joel and Peter were wrong when Peter quoted Joel and said that the baptism with the Spirit (including all the gifts) were available to all believers?

Perhaps the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit in every believer is something to be spiritual discerned, and those who don't believe that don't have spiritually discernment? Then, if there is no spiritual discernment, that person's religion is all in the natural and not in the Spirit. Does that mean that the person is not living or walking in the Spirit, but is still living and walking in the flesh?

If he isn't I am.

Acts 2 was NOT the event in Joel.

Now think for just a minute. IF all believers had the sign gifts then what was the purpose of Jesus giving the sign gifts to only the ELEVEN in Mark 16's Great Commission?

Of the early disciples who were endowed with spiritual gifts, Mark declares in 16:20:
"And they went forth,(The ELEVEN in verse 14) and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs that followed".

The function of the signs was to confirm the revelatory process, the word of truth being communicated from God to man.

The writer of Hebrews argues similarly in 2:3-4. He declares that the message regarding the “great salvation,” which at the first had been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard;(APOSTLES) God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will.

 

[Major1]

Acts 2:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon only the Apostles and your sons and your daughters shall not prophesy because they are not Apostles, and your young men shall not see visions, and your old men shall not dream dreams, because these are reserved for the 12 Apostles only.

18 And on my 12 Apostles only I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost because it is reserved for us Apostles.

39 For the promise is unto the Apostles, and not to your children, nor to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

This would be how those who think that only the Apostles received the baptism of the Holy Spirit would like Peter to have said.

I know that it is important for those who want to speak in tongues and experience the Sign Gifts to believe that the words of Joel were fulfilled in Acts 2. But upon careful reading of both Acts 2 and Joel 2 we can clearly see that they ate TWO SEPERATE events.

Peter quotes extensively from Joel 2:28-32 in his Pentecost sermon (2:17-21). In Acts 2:17, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Peter changes the phrase “after this” in Joel 2:28 to “in the last days,” underscoring the fact that his citation of the Joel passage was not being fulfilled in his day, but must await the future time of the tribulation.

“Last Days,” as used by Peter refers to the tribulation (cf. Deut. 4:30; 31:29; Isa. 2:2; Jer.- 2 23:20; 30:24; 48:47; Ezek. 38:16; Dan. 2:28; 10:14; Micah 4:1).

After Israel experiences the material blessings described in Joel 2:21-27, they will experience the spiritual blessings noted in 2:28-29. What does Joel describe in 2:28-32?
Joel describes the activity of God’s Spirit at work in events surrounding a yet future second coming of Christ. Thus, Peter’s point is that of similarity between what the Holy Spirit will do in the future with the nation of Israel and what He was doing almost 2,000 years ago.

The pouring out of the Spirit upon all flesh, in the context of the Joel passage, refers to the conversion of Israel during the future tribulation period as supported by the subsequent reference to the various echelons of Jewish society, “and your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions” (Joel 2:28).
https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/...ttpsredir=1&article=1086&context=pretrib_arch

Therefore, Acts 2 IS NOT the fulfillment of Joel 2 which would then allow ALL believers to receive the Sign Gifts which in fact Jesus only commissioned to the ELEVEN in Mark 16.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I know that it is important for those who want to speak in tongues and experience the Sign Gifts to believe that the words of Joel were fulfilled in Acts 2. But upon careful reading of both Acts 2 and Joel 2 we can clearly see that they ate TWO SEPERATE events.

Peter quotes extensively from Joel 2:28-32 in his Pentecost sermon (2:17-21). In Acts 2:17, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Peter changes the phrase “after this” in Joel 2:28 to “in the last days,” underscoring the fact that his citation of the Joel passage was not being fulfilled in his day, but must await the future time of the tribulation.

“Last Days,” as used by Peter refers to the tribulation (cf. Deut. 4:30; 31:29; Isa. 2:2; Jer.- 2 23:20; 30:24; 48:47; Ezek. 38:16; Dan. 2:28; 10:14; Micah 4:1).

After Israel experiences the material blessings described in Joel 2:21-27, they will experience the spiritual blessings noted in 2:28-29. What does Joel describe in 2:28-32?
Joel describes the activity of God’s Spirit at work in events surrounding a yet future second coming of Christ. Thus, Peter’s point is that of similarity between what the Holy Spirit will do in the future with the nation of Israel and what He was doing almost 2,000 years ago.

The pouring out of the Spirit upon all flesh, in the context of the Joel passage, refers to the conversion of Israel during the future tribulation period as supported by the subsequent reference to the various echelons of Jewish society, “and your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions” (Joel 2:28).
https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/...ttpsredir=1&article=1086&context=pretrib_arch

Therefore, Acts 2 IS NOT the fulfillment of Joel 2 which would then allow ALL believers to receive the Sign Gifts which in fact Jesus only commissioned to the ELEVEN in Mark 16.

You seem to be ignoring verse 39. where Peter states quite definitely that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit which came on the Apostles, was for those who were to repent and be baptised. It was not only for them, but for their children and those who are far off. Also, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles, Peter described as "that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel". So Peter was definitely linking Joel's prophecy to what was actually taking place on the day of Pentecost, and not at some later time. But then, I'm only read it literally, using grade school comprehension 101.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If he isn't I am.

Acts 2 was NOT the event in Joel.

Now think for just a minute. IF all believers had the sign gifts then what was the purpose of Jesus giving the sign gifts to only the ELEVEN in Mark 16's Great Commission?

Of the early disciples who were endowed with spiritual gifts, Mark declares in 16:20:
"And they went forth,(The ELEVEN in verse 14) and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs that followed".

The function of the signs was to confirm the revelatory process, the word of truth being communicated from God to man.

The writer of Hebrews argues similarly in 2:3-4. He declares that the message regarding the “great salvation,” which at the first had been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard;(APOSTLES) God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will.

So Stephen and Phillip, who both used the sign gifts in their preaching, were false then because they were not part of the Eleven?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Acts 2 was not the fulfillment of Joel 2 my dear brother.

Read Joel again and then Acts and tell me if the Sun turned to blood and the earth shook.
Was there signs in the sky???

So what was Peter talking about when he said "This is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel?"

 

[Major1]

You seem to be ignoring verse 39. where Peter states quite definitely that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit which came on the Apostles, was for those who were to repent and be baptised. It was not only for them, but for their children and those who are far off. Also, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles, Peter described as "that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel". So Peter was definitely linking Joel's prophecy to what was actually taking place on the day of Pentecost, and not at some later time. But then, I'm only read it literally, using grade school comprehension 101.

No sir. I am in fact saying that the Apostles were the ones the Holy Spirit came upon.

Acts 2:39 says the "PROMISE " of the Holy Spirit is for YOU and your children.
That literally means...……"Yet to come".

Just as you said, using only simple reading skills we can see that there is NO mention of Joels prophecy in Acts 2:39.

When we read the words literally we see that in verse that 3 thousand were saved at the end of Peters sermon but there is NO suggestion that any of them spoke in tongues nor did Peter say that they should.

He simply and literally told them to repent and follow Christ and THEN they would receive the Holy Ghost.

 

[Major1]

So Stephen and Phillip, who both used the sign gifts in their preaching, were false then because they were not part of the Eleven?

Actually I am surprised that you would ask that.

Acts 6:5-8.....…..
"The statement found approval with the whole congregation, and they chose Stephan, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicholas a proselythe from Antioch. And these they brought befor the Apostles and after praying, they laid hands on them.
Verse 8...…"And Stephan, full of grace and power was performing great wonders and signs among the people.

These men were specifaclly chosen by the Apostles. They were representivives of the Apostles.

Acts 14:3...……
"Therefore they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was testifying to the word of His grace GRANTING THAT SIGNS AND WONDERS BE DONE BY THEIR HANDS".

 

[Major1]

So what was Peter talking about when he said "This is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel?"

Oscar, as you yourself stated on another post....."I just use 101 simple understanding of literal meanings. I accept that 100%!!!!

Now using that kind of thinking lets read Joel 2:10...……
"The earth shall quake before them, The heavens will tremble, the sun and moon shall be dark, the stars shall withdraw their shinning."

Now, is there a record in the book of Acts that tells us those things happened on the day of Pentecost?
Was there an earthquake?
Did the heavens tremble?
Was the sun and moon dark?
Did the stars stop shinning?

Joel 2:3...…….
"A fire consumes before them and behind them a flame burns".

Where in Acts 2 is there a record of a consuming fire in fron and behind the people of Zion?

That is the LITERAL words used by Joel.

Or could it be exactly as the Bible does literally says Oscar...…….
Acts 2:17---"AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS".

Joels prophecy was all about the Day of the Lord.....the 2nd Coming of the Messiah and it is then that his words will be fulfilled, NOT at the day of Pentecost.

Peter simply reminded his hearers that, knowing Joels prophecy they should have recognized what they were seeing as a work of the Spirit and not a result of drunkenness which they were accused of being.