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Did some giants escaped The Noah Flood ?

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by R. Hartono, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. R. Hartono

    R. Hartono Well-Known Member

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    This video explained the origin of giants after the flood.
     
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  2. Theophan

    Theophan Member

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    What is the purpose of your fixation on this topic? I understand your struggle. I also find myself constantly focused on meaningless topics.
     
  3. R. Hartono

    R. Hartono Well-Known Member

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    Many people wonder who were those giants enemies of Israel whether some giants hv escaped Noah flood and hv descendants.
     
  4. Creekwalker

    Creekwalker New Member

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    I’ve found that Michael Heiser is one of the best on this topic. See his book The Unseen Realm, or check him out on YouTube.
     
  5. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    The closest thing to "giants" in the Bible are people like Goliath. Pretty tall, especially for the time, but not inhumanly tall. There are NBA athletes taller than Goliath. Goliath stood about 6'9 (2.06 meters) according to all our oldest sources (LXX, DSS, and Josephus), only the late medieval Masoretic Text gives his height as absurdly tall (over 9 feet, or 2.74 meters). By comparison, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is 7'2 and Yao Ming is 7'6.

    Mythical, inhumanly tall "giants" of the "fee fi fo fum" variety never existed.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  6. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    Does Heiser's interpretation depend on the Documentary Hypothesis for Gen 6? If so, do you agree with the Documentary Hypothesis?
     
  7. Creekwalker

    Creekwalker New Member

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    I haven’t done enough OT scholarship to answer the questions on the Documentary Hypothesis. I’ll be looking into it now that you’ve brought it up though. Heiser does some very good lectures on YouTube that might quickly reveal his position on this. You might like some of The Unseen Realm lectures.
     
  8. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    I'm familiar with what he says, but I find that it may be dependent to some degree on the Documentary Hypothesis (DH). And I bring up the DH because most Christians don't believe it, yet they will use arguments from scholars whose arguments are built on the assumption of the DH. I'm sort of partial to it myself, but I think that makes me a minority among Christian believers and OT authorship.

    This is especially true regarding Genesis 6. The DH would say that there are at least two flood narratives, one from the J author and one from the P author, and it's only J that has the part about the nephilim in Gen 6:1-8. It seems the sons of God=giants/nephilim works best when (1) the DH is assumed and (2) the origins of Gen 6 are seen as incorporating myths from the wider Canaanite/Ancient-Near-Eastern world.

    Use of the DH may be necessary for this understanding of Gen 6:1-8 as well due to the text's placement and function within the Cannon.

    (1) Considering the canon, sons of God doesn't always mean "divine beings/gods." Both Israel and the king are referred to as God's son. But viewed in isolation from the canon due to DH assumptions, and considering the myths of the wider ancient near east, then it functions more along the lines where gods have fallen and procreated with humans.

    (2) The text seems to function more closely with nephilim=sons of god=gods/angels if it is viewed in isolation from the preceding genealogy in chapter 5, which would render more credence to the line of Seth theory.

    (3) It also functions more along those lines if it is viewed independently from the rest of Genesis. Given it's placement in Genesis, it seems to function more in line with the recurring themes of creation, fall, God chooses someone to start over, then re-creation. Consider: Adam->fall->God chooses Seth->fall->God chooses Noah->fall->God chooses Abraham (and hence Israel)->success! In this case, Gen 6:1-8 seems to fit more in line with a Sethite theory (or some variant). Consider how well this repeated theme fits with the Christian narrative and would go something like this: Adam->fall->Seth->fall->Noah->fall->Israel->fall->Jesus, success!

    (4) It functions more along the lines of gods-procreating-with-human-women when viewed independently from the P source, which has a different explanation for the flood (6:11-13) unrelated to the sons of God. If it's not viewed independently from P, then there is more credibility to a Sethite understanding of the text.

    To accept the divine-beings-procreate-with-humans view, it seems you would also probably have to reject the interpretation that these "sons of God" are angels, and instead view them as gods in their own right. But since Christians are monotheists, this will probably be unacceptable for most.

    Though I find source-theory interesting and useful, I think it's a mistake to disregard it's function within the wider narrative of Genesis, disregard it's function within the wider canon, and instead only consider it's function as an independent source relating to the wider ANE. We have to consider that biblical authors and editors may have incorporated and re-purposed older stories to other wider/newer/more important/more relevant narratives, and so it won't be sufficient to consider atomized sources and the wider cultural world alone in our attempts to understand the text. Though they are useful, they are not sufficient.
     
  9. Creekwalker

    Creekwalker New Member

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    Well said, but now my head hurts! Looks like Heiser doesn’t accept DH. He addresses the topic in a The Naked Bible blog from 2012, but it will take me awhile to get up to speed. But, and just from memory here, where would, say, Peter 2 and Jude stand on this subject? What about 1 Enoch? What does DH do to my Old Time Religion view of Bible infallibility?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  10. Shempster

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    I highly doubt it. They would have had to swim for months with no rest and no food. I guess they would have had water....
     
  11. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Good solid video:

    Here is a textual documentation after a similar fashion:

    For more on Angels, Heavenly unfallen beings, etc, and their nature, see:

    Any may download the structure of Daniel and Revelation here - Link

    Any may download the great Study here on the Michael the Archangel, The Character that will Stand in the Last Day [see Sections [3] and [4] for Angels, Unfallen worlds and their natures, etc - Link
    ]​

    Many do indeed confuse the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2,4 with those of Job 1:6, 38:5-7 KJB:

    The very “sons of God” who rule the unfallen worlds, as Adam [Luke 3:38 KJB], the first [1 Corinthians 15:45,46,47 KJB], on earth had [Genesis 1:26,28; Psalms 8:5 KJB] before his fall, and the angelic “morning stars”:

    Job 1:6 KJB - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 2:1 KJB - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. Job 38:4 KJB - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding

    Job 38:5 KJB - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

    Job 38:6 KJB - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

    Job 38:7 KJB - When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?​

    Side note, none of these Job texts, in regards the “sons of God”, are dealing with the Genesis 6-9 KJB account and are not referring to created heavenly beings. Job 1:6, 2:1 KJB deals with the timeframe in a period well after the flood, and Job 38:4-7 KJB deals with the timeframe long before the flood, when the earth was created. The only texts in Job which are dealing directly with the timeframe of the flood, are Job 22:15,16,17, 26:5 KJB, and please notice it speaks of “men”.

    For more on who the “sons of God” are in Genesis 6:2,4 KJB, please see Luke 3:38; Genesis 4:26 KJB, etc., and for the daughters of men, see Genesis 4:16-24 KJB.
    See also the following for “sons”, “children”, “father” of the good, etc:

    Genesis 6:2,4; Deuteronomy 14:1; 2 Samuel 7:14; Isaiah 8:18, 9:6, 63:16, 64:8; Hosea 1:10; Matthew 5:9,45 6:9; Luke 3:38, 6:35,36, 11:2, 20:26; John 1:12, 11:52, 12:36; Romans 1:7, 8:14,16,17,19,21, 9:8, 9:26 [citing Hosea 1:10 KJB]; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2, 6:18; Galatians 1:4, 3:26, 4:6,7; Ephesians 5:1; Philippians 1:2, 2:15, 4:20; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 3:11,13; 2 Thessalonians 1:1,2, 2:16; Titus 1:4; Philemon 1:3; Hebrews 2:10,13 [citing Isaiah 8:18 KJB], 12:7,9; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 1:3, 3:1,2, 5:2 KJB.​

    See also the following for the “sons”, “children”, “father” of the evil, etc.:

    Genesis 3:15; Matthew 13:38; John 8:42,44; Acts 13:10; Romans 6:16, 9:8; Ephesians 2:2, 5:6; Colossians 3:6; Hebrews 12:8; 1 Peter 3:19 [compare to Psalms 142:7; Isaiah 42:6,7, 61:1; Luke 4:18 KJB], 3:20; 1 John 3:8,10,12, 4:4,5,6,7,8 KJB.​

    See the following for comparison with the Genesis 6:2,4 KJB account:

    See Abraham and Isaac in Genesis 24:3,37 KJB.

    See Esau and Jacob in Genesis 26:34,35, 28:8,9 [comparing to Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6 KJB], 36:2.

    See Isaac and Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6 KJB.

    See Jacob and Hamor in Genesis 34:9,14 KJB.

    See Moses in Exodus 34:15,16 KJB.

    See in Deuteronomy 17:17 KJB.

    See Balaam in Numbers 25:1,2,3 KJB.

    See in Judges 3:5,6,7 KJB.

    See Samson the Judge in Judges 14:1,2,3 KJB.

    See the Chronicles in 1 Chronicles 5:24,25 KJB.

    See Ezra in Ezra 9:1,2,11,12 KJB.

    See Nehemiah in Nehemiah 9:2, 10:28,29,30, 13:23,25,26,27 KJB.

    See Solomon in 1 Kings 11:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 KJB.​

    Many “Sons of God” “looked”/“saw” [“saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair” and “took them wives of all which they chose” [Genesis 6:2 KJB]] and "beheld" [Just as did Samson, “she pleaseth me well”, or King David who went after Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite and his friend, through covetousness had Uriah killed in action “from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman [was] very beautiful to look upon” [2 Samuel 11:2, 12:9 KJB] and Solomon who “multiplied wives” and “loved many strange women” and all Israel who took of the “daughters of the land”], and then “lusted and coveted” and so were ensnared being “Vex[ed], Beguiled, To Commit Trespass Against The LORD, Commit Fornication, Eat things sacrificed unto Idols, worshipped idols” [Numbers 25:18, 31:16; Revelation 2:14 KJB]:

    Jude 1:11 KJB - Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.​

    See also the words of Jesus, as it was in the days of Noah and Lot:

    Job 21:7,14, 22:15,16,17; Matthew 24:37,38; Luke 17:26,27; 2 Peter 2:5, 3:3,6 KJB.​

    In the greater overall picture there is a like message and call for the “people of God” also today to “come out” of “Spiritual Babylon” [just as God had done with physical Babylon; Jeremiah 51:9; Isaiah 52:11 KJB] that “great Whore” [Revelation 17:1, 19:2 KJB]:

    See 2 Corinthians 6:14,15,16,17,18; Revelation 18:4 KJB.​

    For “giants” of men, after the flood, see:

    Genesis 10:8,9, 14:5, 15:20; Numbers 13:32,33; Deuteronomy 2:11,20,21, 3:11,13, 9:2; Joshua 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16; 2 Samuel 5:18,22, 21:16,18,19,20,22; 1 Chronicles 11:23, 14:9, 20:4,5,6; Isaiah 17:5, 45:14 KJB​

    For “men of reknown” see:

    Numbers 1:16, 16:2, 26:9; 1 Chronicles 5:24, 12:30 KJB​

    For more specific details see the Sons of God article.

    “Anak”, and descendants, and ancestors:

    “Anak” is found in the following verses:

    Numbers 13:22, 13:28, 13:33 KJB

    Deuteronomy 9:2 KJB

    Joshua 15:13, 15:14, 21:11 KJB

    Judges 1:20 KJB

    The “Children of Anak” are found:

    Ahiman; Numbers 13:22 KJB

    Sheshai; Numbers 13:22 KJB

    Talmai; Numbers 13:22 KJB

    The “Father of Anak”, named “Arba” is found in the following verses:

    Joshua 14:15, 15:13, 21:11 KJB

    “Arba” was the ruler of “Kirjath-Arba” [“City of Arba”, aka “Hebron”], found in the following verses:

    kirjatharba, 6 times


    City of Arba[h], 3 times


    The “City of Arbah” [“Hebron”], lies in the “plain of Mamre”:

    Genesis 13:18, 14:13,24, 18:1, 23:17,19, 25:9, 35:27, 49:30, 50:13 KJB​

    “The plain of Mamre” was in the “Land of Canaan”:


    “Mamre”, was an “Amorite”:


    The “Amorites” were descendants/children of “Canaan”:

    Genesis 10:15,16 KJB
    “Canaan” was a son of “Ham”

    Genesis 10:6 KJB​

    “Ham” was a son of “Noah” [“Noe”]:

    Genesis 5:32 KJB​

    “Noah” [“Noe”] was a son of “Lamech”:

    “Lamech” was a son of “Methuselah”[“Mathusala”]:


    “Methuselah” [“Mathusala”] was a son of “Enoch”:

    Genesis 5:21; Luke 3:37 KJB​

    “Enoch” was a son of “Jared”:

    Genesis 5:18; Luke 3:37 KJB​

    “Jared” was a son of “Mahalaleel” [“Maleleel”]:


    “Mahalaleel” [“Maleleel”] was a son of “Cainan”:

    Genesis 5:12,13; Luke 3:37 KJB​

    “Cainan” was a son of “Enos”:

    Genesis 5:9,10; Luke 3:38 KJB​

    “Enos” was a son of “Seth”:

    Genesis 4:26, 5:6,7; Luk 3:38 KJB​

    “Seth” was a son of “Adam” and his wife, “Eve” [Genesis 2:23; “the mother of all living” [Genesis 3:20]]:


    “Adam” [“the first man” 1Cor 15:45 ] was the “son of God”:

    Genesis 1 & 2; Luke 3:38 KJB​

    Acts 17:26 KJB - And hath made of onebloodallnations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;​

    Genesis 5:1 KJB - This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

    Genesis 10;1 KJB - Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.​

    Therefore, since Anak, was the child of Arba, and Arba founded the city of Arba[h], and the City of Arba [KirjathArba, Hebron] was in the plain of Mamre, and Mamre was an Amorite, which was in the land of Canaan, which were named for the persons which settled there, being the son of Ham, the son of Noah [Noe] … which was the son of Adam, the first man, and Eve, who was the mother of all living, we can see that “Anak”, was thereforean Amorite descendant of Canaan, etc.

    The Bible lists many people that suddenly appear without apparent ancestor genealogy, and some without descendant genealogy, but that does not indicate that the Scriptures are saying that there were other races of men around, other than descendants of Adam [of whom all races of men are of “one blood”]/Eve [“the mother of all living”]and/or Noah [since the flood only left the 8 [“Noah only remained alive” Genesis 7:23 KJB, the “eight” persons left alive; 1 Peter 3:20 KJB]]. It simply indicates that their ancestry is already indicated through the lineages primarily given in Genesis 5 and 10 and before unto Creation in Genesis 1 & 2. When we compare Scripture with Scripture, line upon line [Isaiah 28 KJB] we can also consider the locations/lands in which they lived, what cities, etc surround those names, in their context to obtain a clearer picture.

    When we compare Scripture with Scripture, line upon line [Isaiah 28] we can also consider the locations/lands in which they lived, what cities, etc surround those names, in their context to obtain a clearer picture.

    "Emims":

    Deuteronomy 2:11 KJB - Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims.​

    "Zamzummims":


    Deuteronomy 2:20 KJB - (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;

    Deuteronomy 2:21 KJB - A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:

    Deuteronomy 2:20 KJB - (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;

    Deuteronomy 2:21 KJB - A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:​

    Others, "children of the giant", "sons of the giant":

    1 Chronicles 11:23 KJB - And he slew an Egyptian, a man of [great] stature, five cubits high; and in the Egyptian's hand [was] a spear like a weaver's beam; and he went down to him with a staff, and plucked the spear out of the Egyptian's hand, and slew him with his own spear.

    1 Chronicles 20:4 KJB - And it came to pass after this, that there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, [that was] of the children of the giant: and they were subdued.

    1 Chronicles 20:5 KJB - And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff [was] like a weaver's beam.

    1 Chronicles 20:6 KJB - And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, whose fingers and toes [were] four and twenty, six [on each hand], and six [on each foot]: and he also was the son of the giant.

    2 Samuel 21:16 KJB - And Ishbibenob, which [was] of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear [weighed] three hundred [shekels] of brass in weight, he being girded with a new [sword], thought to have slain David.

    2 Samuel 21:18 KJB - And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which [was] of the sons of the giant.

    2 Samuel 21:19 KJB - And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew [the brother of] Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear [was] like a weaver's beam.

    2 Samuel 21:20 KJB - And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.

    2 Samuel 21:22 KJB - These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

    Isaiah 45:14 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, [saying], Surely God [is] in thee; and [there is] none else, [there is] no God.​

    There are two ways, the Ways of God, or the way of wickedness.

    Another piece of the text to consider in the context of Genesis 6:4 are the words "men of renown":

    English: "reknown" = Hebrew: "shem" "שֵׁם" [meaning: name, reputation, fame, glory, memorial, monument, stigma [a mark with which anyone is marked], notable, famous or infamous] [Strong's Concordance]​

    Compare to those in the camp of Moses, where the exact same words are used:

    Numbers 16:2 KJB - And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:
    ...or compare these passages which also deal with mankind alone:

    Numbers 1:16 KJB - These [were] the renowned of the congregation, princes of the tribes of their fathers, heads of thousands in Israel.

    Numbers 26:9 KJB - And the sons of Eliab; Nemuel, and Dathan, and Abiram. This [is that] Dathan and Abiram, [which were] famous in the congregation, who strove against Moses and against Aaron in the company of Korah, when they strove against the LORD:

    1 Chronicles 5:24 KJB - And these [were] the heads of the house of their fathers, even Epher, and Ishi, and Eliel, and Azriel, and Jeremiah, and Hodaviah, and Jahdiel, mighty men of valour, famous men, [and] heads of the house of their fathers.

    1 Chronicles 12:30 KJB - And of the children of Ephraim twenty thousand and eight hundred, mighty men of valour, famous throughout the house of their fathers.​

    ...or compare to those who allow God to make them a great name, to those who make a great name for themselves:

    [God makes the name great]

    Genesis 12:2 KJB - And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:​

    [Man makes the name great]

    Genesis 11:4 KJB - And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
    Of course all of this makes perfect sense, since, Angelic beings are a differing "kind" than mankind, and with differing "celestial" "bodies" [not 'spirit-bodies', which is a contradiction in terms scripturally [KJB; Luke 24:39 KJB, etc], but 'spiritual bodies', that is flesh under the control of the Holy Spirit], than our "terestrial" "bodies", and are not of the "same" "flesh" as mankind, but differing "flesh" as it is written: Jude 1:7; 1 Corinthans 15:38-41 KJB, ec. Angelic beings cannot procreate, but this was only given to the children [mankind] of this world, "be fruitful", "multiply", "replenish [fill] the earth", etc., never of which was said to the angelic beings. Mankind comes of the "seed", of man and woman, male and female.

    For more on this topic, just ask, or if any have a question ...
     
  12. Knee V

    Knee V It's phonetic.

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    I have come to form an opinion on this over time. This is largely my own conjecture, but I did not come up with it out of thin air.

    I suspect that the "Sons of God" was the name of a religious sect/class who preserved the true knowledge of God, at least for a while. I suspect that they spent most of their time on mountains, either living there permanently (which I lean towards), or spending the majority of their time there; and that their religious rites were based on encountering God on the mountain top.

    I suspect that there was a schism due to a heretical sect who were cast down from the mountain/mountains. Their offspring would have an advantage over others, and would have become kings and rulers and warriors.

    Noah would have been one of the last "Sons of God" who kept the true knowledge of God. Noah's children, or at least some of them, would have maintained the tradition given to them of the ascetical ascent up the mountain to encounter God, and then many generations later that cycle prior to the flood would have been repeated.

    I also suspect that this is the origin of the ancient word "Aryan" (that would be a post-Babel word, but would have meant the same as the pre-Babel word in whatever language that was); that "Ar" was their name for the one God, and "yan" is the source of words like "gen" and "kin" (also, I suspect that that consonant was actually somewhere between "R" and "L", and that in the Middle East the pronunciation shifted to "AL/EL). It was a religious sect in the tradition of Noah, although eventually corrupted. Those who came down from the mountains (from the "heavens") were "enlightened ones", but that word later became confused with "bright ones", and is the source of words like "deus" and "theos", i.e., the "gods". The memory of the "enlightened/bright ones" who appeared to have come down from the heavens/mountain tops also became corrupted over time, but their immediate descendants became kings and rulers and warriors.

    Thus, "nephilim" would refer to "fallen ones" in the sense of having "come down" or being "cast down" from the mountains due to being heretics or otherwise troublemakers, possessing knowledge and skills that most others did not have, both before and after the Flood.
     
  13. Knee V

    Knee V It's phonetic.

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    In light of that, we can see pyramids, and even Nimrod's tower, as a means of making their own "mountains" on which those "fallen ones" sought to bring themselves back to God in their own false way.
     
  14. Knee V

    Knee V It's phonetic.

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    Additionally, consider the Ananuki of Sumerian lore. The name Ananuki means, roughly, those who came from heaven down to earth, which is similar to the idea of Nephilim. The Ananuki also were reported to have green skin.

    At that point in history, the color blue was not its own idea. While blue colors certainly existed, any shade of what we know of as blue was considered to be on either the green or violet spectrum, depending on the shade of blue.

    Peoole living atop mountains with lower oxygen levels and living a lifestyle of intense fasting and strict diets, could easily have had a blue hue to their skin. That particular shade of blue would have been considered "green", as it would have fallen on the green spectrum. So while it would have been blue, it would have been called green.

    Consider also paintings of Hindu gods and goddesses. They are blue.
     
  15. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Did some giants escape the flood? Yes. They also escaped New York and they're playing baseball in San Francisco.
     
  16. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Well-Known Member

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    Og was 11-12 feet
    Genesis 3:11
    Goliath was 9'

    2 main types of giants in the bible
    Rephaim. Genesis 14:5
    Nephilim. Numbers 13:33

    Rephaim came after the flood- shorter ones 10-12'

    Nephilim came before the flood- taller 15-20?????

    The artuement with the spies in numbers 13 is were they the short ones or the big ones....nephilim

    In other words the 10 spies said the nephilim survived the flood and lived in canaan
    Thats why they looked like grasshopers
     
  17. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    Only if you accept the Masoretic Text uncritically. The LXX, Josephus (Ant 6.9), and 4Q51 from the DSS all have 4 cubits and a span - or about 6'9".
     
  18. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Well-Known Member

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    OG was still 11-12'
    genesis 3:11

    the bible says there were giants in the land...

    the spies said they looked like grasshopers.......
    numbers 13:32-33

    also joshua and caleb did not dispute their claims
    numbers 14:6-9


    however large they were the bible doesnt exactly say....but at least 11 foot ++++
     
  19. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    There are physical limitations to the size a human can grow to. The first such is known as the square-cube law. If a human were to be expanded to, say, three times his size while maintaining his same proportions he would not be three times heavier he would be three cubed or twenty seven times heavier. However, bone strength increases as the square of bone diameter so this hypothetical giant’s bone strength would not be three times greater, it would be three squared or nine times greater. In other words such a giant would have difficulty supporting his own weight without his bones collapsing under him. To illustrate, if a six foot tall man weighing 200 pounds were to be magnified three times, he would be eighteen feet tall and weigh 5400 pounds while his bone strength would only have increased enough to support 1800 pounds. Large creatures in the animal kingdom can compensate for this by having a much more massive bone structure to carry the weight. Think here of animals like the elephant, the rhinocerus and the hippo.. Some animals can also compensate by spending a lot of time being bouyed in an aquatic environment. Whales are the largest creatures to have ever lived and they must spend their entire lives in water. In the event of beaching they eventually die of asphixiation because they lack the strength to work their own lungs without the support of water. Some humans suffering from genetic gigantism have grown as tall as 9 feet. Such individuals have mostly been “bean poles”. Almost all of them have been extremely frail and clumsy. The clumsyness arises from the speed with which nerve impulses can travel from brain to muscle. In modern times the largest in proportion human being was Angus MacAskill who stood 7’9” tall and was 425 pounds. He seems to represent an upper limit to “normal” human giants.
     
  20. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Well-Known Member

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    all is true.....

    but the bible still says there were giants in the land before and after the flood.....

    i believe /Goliath was around 9' as the bible says.....
    dont think a whole nation of Irael warriors would be afraid of a 6'9" man??????

    interesting thing about MacAskill........
    he had huge sholders.....
    could pick up TWO 300 pound barrels in each arm

    also was reported to pick up a ship ancor weighing 2000 lbs.
    Angus MacAskill -

    so these giants must have had fierce strength on hand to hand combat........
     
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