Did Peter copy Jude?

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
80
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,295.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
Or did Jude copy Peter?

The wandering stars, foaming up their own shame...

In today's parlance, whoever wrote this SECOND might be guilty of plagiarism. And yet, these are both canonical, inspired epistles.

Thoughts?

There was a great deal of "innocent plagiarism" going on . For example both Matthew and Like copied a quite a bit from Mark.
When Matthew wrote his gospel some 10 years later, he had a copy of Mark open on the desk in front of him as he wrote. We know this because of the 664 verses in Mark, Matthew included 606 of them, in one way or another, into his gospel.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: public hermit
Upvote 0

public hermit

social troglodyte
Supporter
Aug 20, 2019
10,966
12,052
East Coast
✟830,414.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
It's a bit anachronistic to consider it plagiarism, I think. But, I get your point. It doesn't appear that ancient writers saw the use of other's material (or name) in the same way that we do, i.e. as intellectual property and such. A related practice: followers of some teacher who died might write pseudepigrapha in the teacher's name as a way to honor the teacher and carry on the teaching. But, more in line with your example, the gospel writers obviously borrowed and reused a good bit of the same material and didn't seem to think badly about it, as we do now.
 
Upvote 0

Tra Phull

Ecumenical Loose Canon
Oct 24, 2019
1,248
684
Waco
✟45,894.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Innocent plagiarism.

George Harrison was sued for the melody of MY SWEET LORD and found guilty of "subconscious plagiarism".

George had to pay like 80,000 pounds, about 200,000 bucks.

"Q" is a hypothetical source of sayings used by Matthew and Luke (allegedly).

Matthew and Luke are a lot of Mark, and some stuff from "Q" ( from German "Quelle" for SOURCE )
 
Upvote 0

Tra Phull

Ecumenical Loose Canon
Oct 24, 2019
1,248
684
Waco
✟45,894.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I think it is true in some sense that ancient times didn't look at plagiarism as we do.

It is true today in different cultures. In South Korea, there were no copyright laws as we know them, I got Bob Dylan albums with the cover of one actual Dylan album and contents of Another.

But I think modern Bible scholars go too far with their "pseudopigrahal" theories, Paul didn't write pastoral epistles, Peter didn't write 2 Peter - it's a bit much, IMO.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Or did Jude copy Peter?

The wandering stars, foaming up their own shame...

In today's parlance, whoever wrote this SECOND might be guilty of plagiarism. And yet, these are both canonical, inspired epistles.

Thoughts?
Your post was also inspired by God.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Tra Phull
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!
Supporter
Mar 18, 2014
38,116
34,054
Texas
✟176,076.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Or did Jude copy Peter?

The wandering stars, foaming up their own shame...

In today's parlance, whoever wrote this SECOND might be guilty of plagiarism. And yet, these are both canonical, inspired epistles.

Thoughts?
Almost forgot. Could you post the passages in question?
 
Upvote 0

DNB

Active Member
Jan 17, 2020
161
42
Toronto
✟19,589.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Or did Jude copy Peter?

The wandering stars, foaming up their own shame...

In today's parlance, whoever wrote this SECOND might be guilty of plagiarism. And yet, these are both canonical, inspired epistles.

Thoughts?
Sorry, I cannot offer an opinion on the chronology or dating of one manuscript over the other, I will leave that to the textual critics, paleographers and general scholars on the issue. But, as far as plagiarism is concerned, I agree with the insights of @public hermit. And would also like to add that, I strongly believe that either plagiarism itself (publication was instituted in those days, oral or written), or the principle of it, would never be a concern for men intending to get the words of salvation out, as quickly, and as to as many people as possible. They were all spreading the same Gospel, they all had the same objective, none of them claimed ownership to the message itself. I can't imagine a feud between the writers over someone copying a passage from their works, either verbatim, or in essence. Souls were at stake, so that quoting another author in order to assist in imparting a profound principle, would've been more than welcomed.
Plus, my understanding of inspiration, is not revelation necessarily, but mainly comprehension.
 
Upvote 0

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,458
8,967
Florida
✟321,765.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Or did Jude copy Peter?

The wandering stars, foaming up their own shame...

In today's parlance, whoever wrote this SECOND might be guilty of plagiarism. And yet, these are both canonical, inspired epistles.

Thoughts?

Or it could be that they both wrote independently but used the same language. Any group of people having a common philosophy is bound to share common language.
 
Upvote 0

1213

Disciple of Jesus
Jul 14, 2011
3,661
1,117
Visit site
✟146,199.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Or did Jude copy Peter?

The wandering stars, foaming up their own shame...

In today's parlance, whoever wrote this SECOND might be guilty of plagiarism. And yet, these are both canonical, inspired epistles.

Thoughts?

Basically, all people who are disciples of Jesus, or God’s children, have the same source (God). If the source is the same, it is possible that the message is also the same, and it doesn’t mean that they copy each other.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I think it is true in some sense that ancient times didn't look at plagiarism as we do.

It is true today in different cultures. In South Korea, there were no copyright laws as we know them, I got Bob Dylan albums with the cover of one actual Dylan album and contents of Another.

But I think modern Bible scholars go too far with their "pseudopigrahal" theories, Paul didn't write pastoral epistles, Peter didn't write 2 Peter - it's a bit much, IMO.

Dylan used melodies and lyrics from sources in the public domain all the time. I don't know if you were there when 2Peter was written so I cannot say you are not the authoritative source on who wrote that letter. But you began with plagiarism not with who wrote what epistle. So maybe you ought not get off on a tangent in your own thread. Q was in the public domain. Homer did not come up with the Iliad on his own he borrowed from previous authors, as did Shakespeare and Malory. Modern History textbooks depend heavily upon what would be considered plagiarism if the writer did not include footnotes. In the early AD centuries there was no such thing as a footnote.
 
Upvote 0