Did Pennsylvania Record Many More Mail-In Votes than Ballots Requested?

tulc

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Like the media claiming victory while in reality the lower courts are being gotten out of the way to head to the real players.
or the lower courts are doing their job and the higher courts are never going to hear from the Trump legal team?
tulc(suspects that's what's going to happen)
 
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tulc

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Oil rises to the surface
...oddly enough so do cans of diet pop. I learned that while running a coffee house snack bar over 29 4th of July festivals. At the end of every night (around 2:30 3:00 am) we'd have a "bobbing for cans of pop" competition in the metal horse trough we used to sell cold drinks out of. And even though the cans weighed the same, it was the diet ones that would float to the top and the regular cans would sink to the bottom. :)
tulc(learned how to kill flies by clapping at that same job as well) :coffee:
 
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miamited

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Hi velletta,

You responded:
Sworn statements under threat of perjury are evidence.

Yes, sworn statements under threat of perjury can be used as evidence. However, the sworn statements have to give evidence of some kind of crime. From what I've heard of the sworn statements that the Trump legal team has, they are fairly vague recollections of seeing something, but they don't really know whether what they saw was criminal.

Things like: I saw a man walking behind the voting booths who I don't think was supposed to be there.

When questioned as to what the man was doing? They don't know. Who was the man? They don't know. How do you know that the man wasn't supposed to be there? They don't know.

They merely saw something that looked suspicious to their untrained eye about a process that they know nothing about.

I believe one alleged that they saw someone burning ballots. When they got to the bottom of it they were practice ballots that the training facility had used to train poll workers and to absolutely ensure that they didn't find their way into the 'official' counting stream...they were burned!

Here on this site there is a thread going around about a picture of a shredding van leaving a vote counting facility a few days after the vote. Ok, did you see any ballots among the trash that was thrown out? They don't know. Do you have any idea what was in the trash? They don't know. They just thought it looked suspicious. People just see something that 'looks' suspicious to them and swear out an affidavit as to what they saw. But when it comes time to find out what it was they saw...well, they really don't know.

The charges that poll observers weren't allowed to observe is patently false. Poll observers were allowed into every single vote counting location. However, there were more poll observers than the room could handle and those excess poll observers were turned back. This happened because the Trump team pretty much called on everyone to be a poll observer and so hundreds of people showed up for a job that was only designed for 20 or so. One Democrat and one Republican poll watcher at each counting table. According to both affidavits of election officials, the 'trump election fraud team' and video evidence in most counting locations where cameras had been installed, there was the allowable number of poll workers at every location. When the 'trump election fraud team' were questioned by a judge as to how many Republican poll workers were actually in a location where they claimed they were being denied access, they answered "more than zero". Now how is that answering the question? The question was 'how many'. It was a disingenuous answer because they knew that if they said that there were 20 or so, they'd again be laughed out of the courtroom. Which they ultimately were anyway.

As to the charge that the poll observers were not close enough to actually read the ballots. There is no legal requirement as to how close a poll observer needs to be. Both Democrat and Republican observers were at the same distance, actually sitting side by side in folding chairs in most instances. It is not the poll observers 'right' to be able to actually read the information on the ballot. That is protected information. What happens if a Republican observer sees that his neighbor voted Democrat? The observers were not cleared to actually be able to read the information on the ballots. This is not fraud, but rather the way the count was supposed to be handled.

Here's a link to educate yourself about the allegations and what they actually allege: Trump lawsuit affidavits don't show widespread fraud in Michigan

Some allege that ballots were duplicated. Yes they were. It is the standard process for ballots that are difficult to read. It allows certain processes to be made to the ballot to see if it can be made more legible, but preserving the nature of the original ballot in case the 'certain processes' wound up doing more damage to the ballot.

Some alleged that they couldn't read the ballots that were being duplicated to verify the data. First of all, that isn't their job. There are paid poll workers who are tasked with working with troubled ballots. The observers job is just to watch over the process, but not to 'read' the ballot. Again, that's an election privacy requirement. Unless you the voter want to show your ballot to someone, the only people in the elections department that will be reading them are people who have been trained and sworn to secrecy concerning whatever information they may glean from a ballot. A poll worker doesn't get to go around and tell their friends that they saw who so-and-so voted for and neither is a poll observer.

God bless,
ted
 
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tulc

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Just the syrup
Oh, okay that makes sense...we should probably move on before we get in trouble...although I'm now tempted to start a thread somewhere about things that unexpectedly float. :sorry:
tulc(thanks timothyu for an interesting thing to look up) :oldthumbsup:
 
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Yarddog

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Sworn statements under threat of perjury are evidence.
What court have those people took an oath? Making a statement isn't illegal unless it was made to a law enforcement branch where it is illegal by a statute. It's not admissible in most courts.
 
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miamited

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What court have those people took an oath? Making a statement isn't illegal unless it was made to a law enforcement branch where it is illegal by a statute. It's not admissible in most courts.

Hi yarddog,

I rather imagine that the 'sworn statements' is just their way of saying that a notary public was there to swear that the person who wrote the account was the true and correct person signing the attestation. Just some lawyer or notary asking, after the written statements were completed: Do you swear and affirm that this is the actual account of something that you witnessed personally? If the answer is yes, then the notary slaps their seal on the affidavit.

It most certainly is not a court swearing, and the swearing of an attestation given before a notary, while the document may say that any false information 'may' be punishable by fine or imprisonment. Probably wouldn't get someone thrown in jail.

God bless,
ted
 
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Yarddog

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Hi yarddog,

I rather imagine that the 'sworn statements' is just their way of saying that a notary public was there to swear that the person who wrote the account was the true and correct person signing the attestation. Just some lawyer or notary asking, after the written statements were completed: Do you swear and affirm that this is the actual account of something that you witnessed personally? If the answer is yes, then the notary slaps their seal on the affidavit.

It most certainly is not a court swearing, and the swearing of an attestation given before a notary, while the document may say that any false information 'may' be punishable by fine or imprisonment. Probably wouldn't get someone thrown in jail.

God bless,
ted
Are you referring to Court reporters, who may or may not be a notary. I've given several depositions, at lawyer's offices and a Court reporter has to be present, to swear people in and record their sworn statements in the deposition. It is illegal to lie in these cases but I think the deposition has to be entered into evidence by the attorneys before any action would be taken on a lie. Trump's lawyers haven't submitted their claims because they know they are false and they could be disbarred for doing so
 
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Archivist

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Like the media claiming victory while in reality the lower courts are being gotten out of the way to head to the real players.
Not sure what your point is. Appellate courts often overrule lower courts when the lower courts are wrong .
 
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SilverBear

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The media has consistently lied about there being no evidence of fraud when there is a massive amount of evidence, sworn statements. The same ballots were run through over and over in multiple states.
which would leave evidence of having been done and no such evidence exists.

Democrat "fixed" ballots for Democrat voters in heavily Democrat areas and tossed out ballots in Republican areas--not handling ballots the same is a violation of the equal protection clause of our U.S. Constitution.
of which there is again no evidence.

Poll watchers were stopped from doing their jobs.
except the courts said they weren't stopped.


Biden broke his promise to wait until their was certification before declaring himself the victor.
except he din't

Attorneys supporting President Trump have been threatened and some had to quit.
threatened by who?

and exactly who has quit?



Every American has a right to an attorney. Leftists have shown contempt for the law and contempt for the voters.
yes voter suppression laws, mass purges of minority voters form rolls and gerrymandering sure do show contempt for voters....but it's the right that does these things

Every Democrat should be outraged because it makes them all look corrupt when they not only don't step up against the wrongdoing, but try to censor it. Joe needs to call for the left to stop attacking families and the elderly and to let the legal process continue without threatening the attorneys.
whos threatening the elderly?


As to these numbers, the origin may or may not have been deliberate misinformation, this situation would never have occurred were the law obeyed and observers from both parties allowed to observe as to the law. The information comes fast and anyone can be fooled, but don't kid yourself as to where the vast majority of corruption, violence and hatred are coming from.
where it usually originates...from the right
 
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Valletta

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which would leave evidence of having been done and no such evidence exists.

of which there is again no evidence.

except the courts said they weren't stopped.


except he din't

threatened by who?

and exactly who has quit?



yes voter suppression laws, mass purges of minority voters form rolls and gerrymandering sure do show contempt for voters....but it's the right that does these things

whos threatening the elderly?


where it usually originates...from the right
Are you referring to Court reporters, who may or may not be a notary. I've given several depositions, at lawyer's offices and a Court reporter has to be present, to swear people in and record their sworn statements in the deposition. It is illegal to lie in these cases but I think the deposition has to be entered into evidence by the attorneys before any action would be taken on a lie. Trump's lawyers haven't submitted their claims because they know they are false and they could be disbarred for doing so
In Pennsylvania the attorneys for Trump were not granted a hearing, so the witnesses who had sworn to the affidavits did not have an opportunity to speak before the court. But the legislature held hearings and witnesses were allowed to speak. I must say that the witnesses were impressive and to me they were matter of fact.
There will people who attended the MAGA march in Washington who were attacked by leftists. I hope that poor little girl is not traumatized for life. You should ask the big networks why they failed to properly report. Exclusive -- Trump Lawyer Jenna Ellis Receives Threats: 'You Deserved to Be Raped'
 
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Exactly. Get to the court buffet on top instead of playing around with the appetizers.
There is no “court buffet”. This was an appeal from Commonwealth Court to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court made the right decision.
 
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miamited

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Are you referring to Court reporters, who may or may not be a notary. I've given several depositions, at lawyer's offices and a Court reporter has to be present, to swear people in and record their sworn statements in the deposition. It is illegal to lie in these cases but I think the deposition has to be entered into evidence by the attorneys before any action would be taken on a lie. Trump's lawyers haven't submitted their claims because they know they are false and they could be disbarred for doing so

Hi yarddog,

Well, I will defer to your experience. It may be a court reporter that verifies affidavits or provides the swearing in for them. I'm not really familiar with the process, I just know that a sworn deposition given in some lawyer's office doesn't carry the same weight of reprisal as lying in the courtroom. Perhaps I'm wrong on that, but just as you say, the deposition may well have to make it into the court as evidence before one can be charged for being untruthful.

However, as I've posted, most of the depositions don't seem to be 'untruthful'. They just don't really describe any criminal activity, but rather activity that someone, likely not familiar with the process, saw and thought to themselves, "Hmmm, that looks suspicious." Just like the paper shredder truck. It may look suspicious to someone outside on the street that doesn't know that once a month on the third Tuesday of each month they pick up important documents that must be shredded rather than just thrown in some waste bin. However, this witness has a bone to pick and it's just days after an election has been completed and they see this truck and think to themselves, "Oh! They're shredding all of the ballots so that there won't be any paper trail of some nefarious plot to undermine the election because my guy didn't win and that's criminal".

However, I think we're moving far afield of the OP's original purpose for posting.

It seems that the truth of the matter concerning the OP's issue is that someone, who may have had nefarious intent, took only the count of Democratic mail-in ballots and then tried to reconcile how more than were requested were returned. Not giving any heed to Independent or Republican requests for mail-in ballots. The last number I saw was that Pennsylvania had actually mailed just over 3M ballots and a total of 2.6M were returned.

The same thing was done with the overvotes in Michigan. Someone, likely with nefarious intent, tried to make up numbers that showed that one township had a 350% vote participation. However, the actual township records showed that the township had about 71 registered voters, (it was a very small town) and that just over 60 had voted. I think it came out to, in truth, only an 89% vote participation rate.

The vast majority of these 'criminal' claims concerning the election are either just clearly made up, or, as I said above, people making complaints about something that they know little about but thought something looked suspicious.

Hopefully it will soon be over. In the meantime our commander in chief has put his tail between his legs while some 2500+ people are dying every day. He has gone AWOL. Now that! Is a treasonable offense.

God bless,
ted
 
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Yarddog

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In Pennsylvania the attorneys for Trump were not granted a hearing, so the witnesses who had sworn to the affidavits did not have an opportunity to speak before the court. But the legislature held hearings and witnesses were allowed to speak. I must say that the witnesses were impressive and to me they were matter of fact.
There will people who attended the MAGA march in Washington who were attacked by leftists. I hope that poor little girl is not traumatized for life. You should ask the big networks why they failed to properly report. Exclusive -- Trump Lawyer Jenna Ellis Receives Threats: 'You Deserved to Be Raped'
I'm not trying to justify these threats but parties on both the left and right are guilty of posing threats against the opposition.
 
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Valletta

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I'm not trying to justify these threats but parties on both the left and right are guilty of posing threats against the opposition.
There certainly has been corruption in the Republican party as well. George Bush Sr., John McCain.
 
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miamited

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There certainly has been corruption in the Republican party as well. George Bush Sr., John McCain.

Hi valletta,

I think you should be very, very careful in accusing the late Sen. John McCain of corruption. Do you have any evidence of either of these men being corrupt? Or, is this just a matter that they took a stand at some point against a Republican initiative and are now, therefore, in your estimation...corrupt?

Well, what'cha got?

God bless,
ted
 
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