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Featured Did mind–body dualism exist before original sin?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by pittsburghjoe, Jan 24, 2021.

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  1. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    In scripture, "dust" is a very key word in that it is the way God tells us that we are in mortal bodies, that will certainly not last -- we have limited time here!

    Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your bread, until you return to the ground--because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return."

    So, "dust" is a key scriptural word, that tells us these bodies are merely 'dust' -- not the important thing! -- and we should not be too attached to them, but look to the real hope, instead.

    We are something far more important than the dust side of our self:
    Ecclesiastes 12:7 before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
     
  2. pittsburghjoe

    pittsburghjoe Member

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    I'm saying everything was waves before original sin. If you are waves you don't know you are not physical.
     
  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    While it's an interesting speculation to imagine that our condition of the Garden before the fall is certain way or another, such as another natural state of being (as having quantum coherence with God for instance for one of many possible speculations), keep in mind always that it is only a speculative idea, nothing more, and not a key thing we must know or learn about, but only an interesting speculation. There are many possible speculations. I've speculated once that in the Garden time did not operate as it does here in our mortal world, so that time passing in the Garden might have been very different in duration than the simultaneous (if it is!) time passing here in the mortal world. (ergo, a day for Adam before the fall may have been a vastly longer time out in the ordinary world) Of course, that's only a speculation, and not very important. I'd drop it in a minute, or even just eventually forget it. It's not key to anything. Much more key would be to notice that crucial thing that happened where Even and Adam distrusted God (!) -- now that actually matters, and not just a little! Through Christ we can be reconciled to God, and put our trust -- faith -- in Him!
     
  4. pittsburghjoe

    pittsburghjoe Member

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  5. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    The real security (we all must have) is that Christ tells us of in Matthew 7:24-27

    So, here's a first-things-first practice we all need to do: ask God for help each day by the perfect prayer Christ gave us to pray in
    Matthew 6 NIV.

    Once we believe in Christ risen as our Savior, putting faith in Him to redeem us from our sins, turning to Him in repentance, the next thing we are to do is to begin to listen to Him, the teachings He said which we have now in the 4 gospels, words for us to hear -- and put His instructions to us into practice.
     
  6. pittsburghjoe

    pittsburghjoe Member

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    You don't see this as a tool to wake the sleeping?
     
  7. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    If by sleeping you mean the lost who don't know the full truth about Christ, then the key message, and the only one that can save anyone is solely the good news, the "gospel", of Jesus, our Christ.

    But, yes, inevitably we at times try to address people were they are at, as a prelude, such as Paul did in Athens.

    Because it's so central, key, a first-things-first, here is where Christ teaches us about what happens when someone does hear the Word:

    Mark 4 ESV
    (through most of the chapter, in several sections)
     
  8. pittsburghjoe

    pittsburghjoe Member

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    Didn't God say, “My Glory and hand is evident in all invisible attributes of Creation so that all will be without excuse.”?​

    So, we need to be able to point to those attributes and say “look, here is the hand of God.”​
     
  9. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
     
  10. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Isn't everything still waves today?
     
  11. pittsburghjoe

    pittsburghjoe Member

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    Waves become physical in this fallen reality.
     
  12. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Hence the two creation stories?
     
  13. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    So non physical waves no longer exist?
     
  14. pittsburghjoe

    pittsburghjoe Member

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    When unobserved.
     
  15. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    They No longer exist when unobserved, or they only exist when unobserved?
     
  16. pittsburghjoe

    pittsburghjoe Member

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    no longer exist ..to us here in this physical fallen reality
     
  17. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    But they still exist when observed?
     
  18. pittsburghjoe

    pittsburghjoe Member

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    Yes, that is what wave-particle duality is.
     
  19. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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  20. pittsburghjoe

    pittsburghjoe Member

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    I'm saying the physical part didn't happen until original sin. ..decoherence ..wave collapse
     
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