LDS Did Joseph Smith and the 1830 BOM plagairize the 1823 book "View of the Hebrews"?

[BigDaddy4]

So there is no claim that reformed Egyptian exist anywhere but on the plates. So for you to say there is no such thing has no meaning to it.

Well that's convenient. A made up language that only exists on non-existant plates. Yeah, nothing fishy about that!

 

[withwonderingawe]

Well that's convenient. A made up language that only exists on non-existant plates. Yeah, nothing fishy about that!

Well that's your problem. You can reject or not.

 

[CitizenD]

Well that's your problem. You can reject or not.

The plates either exist or they don't.

 

[Jane_Doe]

The plates either exist or they don't.

Hi CitizenD, were you going to answer my question?

 

[withwonderingawe]

The plates either exist or they don't.

There were 15 men + who handled them.

Oliver Cowdery
Some time after leaving the Church, Oliver Cowdery, who had studied law, became prosecuting attorney in one of the counties of the state of Michigan. During the course of a murder trial the attorney for the defendant challenged Oliver Cowdery in the following words:

"May it please the court, and gentlemen of the jury, I challenge Mr. Cowdery, since he seems to know so much about the poor defendant, to tell us something about his connection with Joe Smith, and the digging out of the hill of the Mormon Bible, and how Mr. Cowdery helped Joe Smith to defraud the American people out of a whole lot of money selling the Mormon Bible and telling them that an angel appeared to them from heaven, dressed in white clothes."

When it came Oliver Cowdery's turn to reply he arose in calm dignity and in a clear voice said:

"If your honor please, and gentlemen of the jury, the attorney on the opposite side has challenged me to state my connection with Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon: and as I cannot now avoid the responsibility, I must admit to you that I am the very Oliver Cowdery whose name is attached to the testimony, with others, as to the appearance of the Angel Moroni; and let me tell you that it is not because of my good deeds that I am here, away from the body of the Mormon Church, but because I have broken the covenants I once made, and I was cut off from the Church, but, gentlemen of the jury, I have never denied my testimony, which is attached to the Book of Mormon, and I declare to you here that these eyes saw the angel, and these ears of mine heard the voice of the angel, and he told us his name was Moroni; that the book was true, and contained the fulness of the gospel, and we were also told that if we ever denied what we had heard and seen that there would be no forgiveness for us, neither in this world nor in the world to come." (The Restored Church, 7th ed., p.74-75)

 

[withwonderingawe]

The plates either exist or they don't.

Isn't that the same as saying either Jesus existed or he doesn't, why do you believe he does? Is it because Mathew, John, Paul and Jude testified that he did? Luke apparently never met him and Mark either.

At the end of there is a short testimony from some un-named scribes

John 20
"24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

They knew that a second witness was necessary to make John's testimony authoritative.

Why is it easier to believe someone who lived over 2000 years ago than someone who lived just 173 years ago?

 

[Ironhold]

Agreed.

The translation of the papyri in the book of Abraham, by Joseph Smith himself, is an outright fraud. The papyri in question is a common funerary text, part of the Egyptian book of the dead that was often found in tombs. Smith had the most absurd translation of the embalming scene on the fragment that now, thanks to us actually learning Egyptian, we know to be a complete fiction.

The book of Abraham is now a canonized text in Mormonism. And it's a total fraud.

Mormon Answers, LDS FAQ: The Truth About the Book of Abraham, Part 1

Historic accounts indicate that the amount of material under preservation is a *fraction* of the material that JS was known to possess. The one image in question is the only element known to be shared between the two.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Well that's your problem. You can reject or not.

Great comeback. The credibility of the lds religion, and Joseph Smith as its founder, is not my problem.

 

[BigDaddy4]

There were 15 men + who handled them.

Oliver Cowdery...

Oliver Cowdery did not testify that he "handled them", so that doesn't support your assertion.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Isn't that the same as saying either Jesus existed or he doesn't, why do you believe he does? Is it because Mathew, John, Paul and Jude testified that he did? Luke apparently never met him and Mark either.

At the end of there is a short testimony from some un-named scribes

John 20
"24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

They knew that a second witness was necessary to make John's testimony authoritative.

Why is it easier to believe someone who lived over 2000 years ago than someone who lived just 173 years ago?

You're not doing very well today. First, it's John 21:24 that you are quoting, not John 20:24 as you stated. Second, John 21:24 is talking about himself, John, not some "un-named scribe". See verse 20.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Mormon Answers, LDS FAQ: The Truth About the Book of Abraham, Part 1

Historic accounts indicate that the amount of material under preservation is a *fraction* of the material that JS was known to possess. The one image in question is the only element known to be shared between the two.

And yet JS still got it wrong...

 

[withwonderingawe]

You're not doing very well today. First, it's John 21:24 that you are quoting, not John 20:24 as you stated. Second, John 21:24 is talking about himself, John, not some "un-named scribe". See verse 20.

" and we know that his testimony is true"

"Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come,.....This is the disciple (the one who was told he would terry until he comes again) which/who testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."

 

[BigDaddy4]

" and we know that his testimony is true"

"Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come,.....This is the disciple (the one who was told he would terry until he comes again) which/who testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."

Repeating and bolding doesn't make your point. The passage is about John himself, and he is part of the "we". At times he writes in the 3rd person.