Did John the baptist participate in the passover?

MarkeSmith

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There are 4 cups of wine!

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Luk 1:15 - For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
 
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BobRyan

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There are 4 cups of wine!

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Luk 1:15 - For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

it was grape juice "New wine". The word there is more specifically "grape beverage" -- context determines the type and yeast of any kind was not allowed during Passover.
 
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it was grape juice "New wine". The word there is more specifically "grape beverage" -- context determines the type and yeast of any kind was not allowed during Passover.

I've seen nothing in the Torah that compels us to drink wine, nor grape juice, on Passover.

There were no fresh grapes during Hag Matzot in first century Israel; so any grape juice would have had to have been fermented.

However the general narrative is that John the Baptist was of the Nazarite vow from birth.

Here is the verse that this doctrine is derived from:

(CLV) Lk 1:15
for he shall be great in the sight of the Lord. And wine and intoxicant may he under no circumstances be drinking, and with holy spirit shall he be |filled while still o of his mother's womb.

Did John take the Nazarite vow? Who knows? That's why I view doctrine as conjecture.

If John was Nazarite for all of his life; then he would have been prohibited of anything of the grape vine.

To answer the OP, No.

There is no commandment to drink wine for any of the Moedim.

I trust the scripture.

P.S. Hey Mark,

I just noticed that you're new here.

WELCOME TO CF!
 
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BobRyan

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Really no the passover used wine!

I suppose Jesus turned the water into grape juice also?

True - the word is equivalent to our phrase "grape beverage"

And at passover ..."no yeast" of any kind - not even wine yeast was allowed.

Here is an article on preserving grape juice (so it does not ferment) without a frig.

Preserving grape juice

And BTW -- when grape juice "goes bad" it is rotten rather than tasty.

To get it to be a desirable form of fermented wine - is a bit of a science ... just having rotten food around is not the secret involving wine yeast.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Do you know whether or not people had the tools (tightly sealed containers), and knowledge of pasteurization, in ancient times?

If they did (and there is no evidence whatsoever to that effect) the process got lost for a very long time until Louis Pasteur discovered it. During all of those centuries how did the Jews celebrate Passover if they had to use a beverage which was physically impossible to procure?

P. S. All of Judaism to this very day uses wine, not grape juice, at the Seder meal of Passover.
 
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During all of those centuries how did the Jews celebrate Passover if they had to use a beverage which was physically impossible to procure?

Where is the law that commands any grape product be consumed for Passover?
 
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bbbbbbb

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Where is the law that commands any grape product be consumed for Passover?

Now we are getting silly. Next, you will tell us that Jews have never drunk anything at all at their Passover seders because beverages are not commanded by God. In addition, you may also insist that Jesus actually did nothing at all concerning a cup at the Last Supper and that the writers of the New Testament got all their facts wrong.

Simply because Jews (not to mention Jesus Christ) drink actual wine at their Passover seders seems to be an unforgiveable sin in your world.
 
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Now we are getting silly. Next, you will tell us that Jews have never drunk anything at all at their Passover seders because beverages are not commanded by God. In addition, you may also insist that Jesus actually did nothing at all concerning a cup at the Last Supper and that the writers of the New Testament got all their facts wrong.

Simply because Jews (not to mention Jesus Christ) drink actual wine at their Passover seders seems to be an unforgiveable sin in your world.

The last supper was not a Passover seder; and there is no mandate to consume any grape product on Passover.
 
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Dkh587

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The last supper was not a Passover seder; and there is no mandate to consume any grape product on Passover.
You’re right, there is no commandment to drink grape juice, wine or strong drink on Passover or any other time.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The last supper was not a Passover seder; and there is no mandate to consume any grape product on Passover.

Excellent! Now we are going farther into Wonderland. Jesus decided on the spur of the moment to host the Last Supper (never mind that it just happened to be on the same night as the Passover celebration) and they did not eat any grapes or drink anything at all. The cup was completely empty.
 
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Excellent! Now we are going farther into Wonderland. Jesus decided on the spur of the moment to host the Last Supper (never mind that it just happened to be on the same night as the Passover celebration) and they did not eat any grapes or drink anything at all. The cup was completely empty.

Where did I say that they didn't drink wine?

The Passover is eaten on the first day of Hag Matzot. The Passover is slaughtered on Passover, during daylight hours. We are not to leave the house, before daylight, on the night that the Passover is eaten. Yahshua said himself that he would not be eating the Passover until it was fulfilled in the kingdom of Elohim.

(CLV) Lk 22:16
For I am saying to you that under no circumstances may I be eating of it till it may be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

Yahshua didn't break the Torah; he didn't lie to his disciples; and he was in the grave before Passover was eaten.
 
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You’re right, there is no commandment to drink grape juice, wine or strong drink on Passover or any other time.

Such a law would have created a conflict for John the Baptist.
 
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Dkh587

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Where did I say that they didn't drink wine?

The Passover is eaten on the first day of Hag Matzot. The Passover is slaughtered on Passover, during daylight hours. We are not to leave the house, before daylight, on the night that the Passover is eaten. Yahshua said himself that he would not be eating the Passover until it was fulfilled in the kingdom of Elohim.

(CLV) Lk 22:16
For I am saying to you that under no circumstances may I be eating of it till it may be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

Yahshua didn't break the Torah; he didn't lie to his disciples; and he was in the grave before Passover was eaten.
Something interesting I noticed, that when the Messiah told Judas to “do it quickly”, that the disciples thought Judas was going to go & buy food for the feast.. could this be a witness that the Passover was indeed the next night?

John 13:17-20
And after the sop Satan entered into him.

Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him. For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.

He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.

the writer was there, as the writer is the disciple Jesus loved:

John 13:23
Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.

Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake
 
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Something interesting I noticed, that when the Messiah told Judas to “do it quickly”, that the disciples thought Judas was going to go & buy food for the feast.. could this be a witness that the Passover was indeed the next night?

There are so many signs that the last supper was not a Passover Seder; that I have trouble understanding how the men who started this false doctrine, could get away with it.

Maybe it has something to do with book burnings, and the Dark Ages.

If Yahshua ate Passover that; then he would have been executed on a high Shabbat, Hag Matzot. It would also mean that he was not executed on Passover Day, along with the rest of the Passover sacrifices. This false doctrine creates numerous scriptural problems. It defies the prophesies concerning him; and it paints him as a Torah breaker. I reject it; and I find it to be offensive.
 
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There are so many signs that the last supper was not a Passover Seder; that I have trouble understanding how the men who started this false doctrine, could get away with it.

Maybe it has something to do with book burnings, and the Dark Ages.

If Yahshua ate Passover that; then he would have been executed on a high Shabbat, Hag Matzot. It would also mean that he was not executed on Passover Day, along with the rest of the Passover sacrifices. This false doctrine creates numerous scriptural problems. It defies the prophesies concerning him; and it paints him as a Torah breaker. I reject it; and I find it to be offensive.

This brings up other issues such the actual day of the week of the crucifixion. Jesus was quite specific that he would be in the tomb three days and three nights. If, as is popularly believed, he was crucified on Friday and had risen from the dead by the morning of the first day of the week, that would obviously be one full day and two possible nights. On the other hand, if He was crucified on Wednesday, then He would have been in the tomb three days and three nights.

What do you think?
 
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This brings up other issues such the actual day of the week of the crucifixion. Jesus was quite specific that he would be in the tomb three days and three nights. If, as is popularly believed, he was crucified on Friday and had risen from the dead by the morning of the first day of the week, that would obviously be one full day and two possible nights. On the other hand, if He was crucified on Wednesday, then He would have been in the tomb three days and three nights.

What do you think?

It obviously wasn't Friday.
 
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