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Did Jesus Sin?

Discussion in 'Paterology, Christology & Pneumatology' started by edpobre, Jun 20, 2002.

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  1. Slave2SinNoMore

    Slave2SinNoMore Active Member

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    To believe in Christ, you must believe in who he is. Who he is - completely. Do think that in an issue as important as this, it is okay to not believe what the word plainly tells us? Read these verses, and then tell me that Paul didn't say that Christ never sinned.

    Hebrews 4:15: "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

    1 Peter 2:21-22: "...because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth."

    1John 3:5: "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." 

    If I said I believed in the wind, and someone asked me "Well, what is the wind?", and I answered "the wind can move leaves, trees, and paper cups", the person might say "that's true". Then I go on and say "and the wind looks like a piece of chocolate cake"...then I do not really believe in the same wind the person who asked me does. Understand?
     
  2. Slave2SinNoMore

    Slave2SinNoMore Active Member

    477
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    edprobe said:

    If Jesus were God or if he were a MAN who did NOT sin, why did Jesus say he was SANCTIFIED or PURIFIED by God (John 10:36)? Why didn't he say outrghtly that he did NOT sin?

    Slavenomore says:

    well, he did.

    Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God. (John 6:46-47).

    ed said:

    What becomes of a MAN whose sins have been forgiven my friend? Isn't that MAN sinless? In Isaiah 1:18 , God said that "though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red as crimson, they shall be as wool."

    Slavenomore says:

    As a Christian, I am indeed a new creation. But I would be lying if I told you that I never sin. God looks at me and doesn't see my sin, because his blood has washed me clean. However, I do still sin sometimes. My spirit is perfect, but not my flesh-it is still corrupt. If Christ had been just a man who had sinned but was "forgiven" as I am, his flesh would still be corrupt. And just as my sacrifice could not pay the price for you, because my flesh is corrupt, the same could be said for Christ. Christ never sinned, not once. If he had, he himself would need a savior. 

    ed said:

    Apostles Peter and Paul said Jesus knew no sin becuse God has SANCTIFIED Jesus. Thus, it no longer mattters whether he sinned or not. This is only necessary when people MAKE Jesus God because they read that "he knew no sin."

    Slavenomore says:

    Peter and Paul said Jesus knew no sin because he had never sinned. Don't believe that? Read the following verses:

    Hebrews 4:15:"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

    <B>1 Peter 2:21-22:</B> "...because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth."

    <B>1John 3:5:</B> "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."&nbsp;


    Ed, is sin of the Devil? Is sin the work of the Devil? if you say yes, then how can you say that the very son of God ever did the work of the Devil?
     
  3. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    Also I believe in 1 john it says that he was without sin....let me check on that..
     
  4. Slave2SinNoMore

    Slave2SinNoMore Active Member

    477
    +15
    Christian
    mistake
     
  5. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Veteran

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    US-Constitution
    Hmmm.....normally I would want to hop on in and talk with you guys, but things seem a little volatile in here. :( Maybe it is just the lack of emotion that comes from typed text. *shrugs*
     
  6. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,370
    United States
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    &nbsp;

    Perhaps your defination of sanctify is incorrect.

    According to the Strong's Concodance it means:&nbsp;

    1. to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow.

    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A. To venerate means to:to regard with reverential respect. Adore, revere, reverence, worship.

    2. to separate from profane things and dedicate to God.

    Reading the verse in context,&nbsp;verses 31 - 39 Jesus was being accused of blasphemy because He said He was God.&nbsp; That's what the&nbsp;Jews said in verse 33.

    Jesus was telling them that God had set Him&nbsp;(Jesus) apart&nbsp;to be regarded with reverential respect.&nbsp; To be adored and worshiped.&nbsp; That was the whole point of Him (The Son), leaving heaven to become the sacrifice that was needed to cleanse us from our sins.

    Since we are to worship no one but God (Rev 19:10, Jeremiah 25:6, Matt 4:10, Deut 6:13), then we must conclude that Jesus is Who He said He was. . . God! :bow:&nbsp;

    Acts 2:36 says, "that God has made the same Jesus, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Christ.&nbsp; And&nbsp;Ex 34:14 "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lrod, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:&nbsp;

    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

    &nbsp;&nbsp;

    &nbsp;
     
  7. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    Quaffer you are spot on. Great work! :)

    I wonder what Ed is cooking up to try and peddle to us now, lol.
     
  8. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    oh, and another verse in cor says there was no sin found in him :)
     
  9. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

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    Ed,

    Let us go with your story. Jesus lived and committed sin. And according to your theology God sanctified Jesus and thus made Him sinless. Correct?

    Ok if God sanctified Jesus(forgave him of his sin), then why must we believe in Jesus Christ? Why can't God just sanctify us as he supposedly did for Christ? Why did Christ even have to die? For if God can forgive Jesus without any sacrifice then why can't he forgive us? Your theology presents two types of salvation: 1) A special type of salvation reserved for just one man and 2) Faith in Jesus Christ?

    Doesn't make sense Ed? :scratch: The scriptures should bring continuity, your theology doesn't. :sorry:



    Jesaiah
     
  10. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

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    Throughout this thread John 17:19 has been referred to and discussed several times. To eleborate shall we look at the word "sanctify".

    The word sanctify is the Greek word hagiazo which means to make holy, purify, consecrate. Hagiazo is used within New Testament scriptures to speak of an internal sanctification (cf. Acts 20:32, 26:18; Romans 15:16; 1st Corinthians 1:2; 1st Thessalonians 5:23).



    Jesaiah
     
  11. Patty

    Patty Nice ta see yas!

    +1
    Sin:

    A conscious and deliberate effort to do other than good when you can choose a better alternative.

    Jesus never consciously and deliberately chose to do wrong.


    Patty
     
  12. closer

    closer New Member

    38
    +0
    The term sanctify in this questioned verse does not mean he was forgiven. It means he was set apart for the purpose of salvation. As John the Baptist was set apart to be the forerunner; Jesus was set apart to be the redeemer. Unfortunately for man alone redemption was impossible. Jesus was God from beginning as John said in Chapter one. He was set apart from the foundation. And the sinless sacrifice was delivered on Calvary.
    Jesus did not sin because if Jesus sinned and God liberated him then God is not God for He violated his own nature. This cannot be and therefore Jesus could not have sinned
     
  13. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    Louis said "Christ is, was and always will be perfect..how else can he be the "lamb of God?"

    Ha Louis, caught you with this admission. So why are you now saying that Christ fell sick from time to time in another thread. I take it you mean spiritually perfect only?
     
  14. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    *sigh* perfect in terms of the law and spiritual, not in terms of never being sick. Read the context will ya? I do mean it spiritually. For that statement is made nonliterally.
     
  15. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

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    HiYall, I'm a little late in entering into this highly exposive, thought provoking topic and I would like to make some kind of a contribution to the discussion if I may. I would have to say that Jesus was a man who rendered perfect submission and obedience to God.&nbsp;So to answer the first question to this thread: Did Jesus sin? The answer is NO! He never commited one single sin! &nbsp;When the scripture refers to Christ as being sactified I beleive it is saying that&nbsp;He was a "man made strong" (Psalms 80:17); a man specially and divinely begotten by the eternal Spirit-Power of God; a man in whom God dwelt, and through whom God spoke and worked and manifested Himself; a man who recognized that of himself he could do nothing - that all power, wisdom and goodness was of God, a man who rendered perfect submission and obedience to God - "Not my will, but Thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). In Jn 10:35-36,&nbsp;as Jesus points out, the term "god" is occasionally used of men in Scripture to signify their sanctification and relationship to God. (See Psalms 82:6, "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."). The use of this term did not confuse them in any way with the one eternal God, the Almighty Creator, but it does show that the term "god," properly understood, is applied to such as are sanctified by God. When the scripture says, He knew no sin, does that mean to say,&nbsp;it was&nbsp;impossible that Jesus could sin? Or, but because of how he lived his life, was it improbable that he would have sinned, though there was the possibility he could have?&nbsp;If it was impossible for Jesus to have sinned, what value was the temptation? How could he be tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin (Hebrews 4:15)? If the temptation had no effect, because there wasn’t the remotest chance that Jesus could have sinned, there would be, in effect, no temptation!&nbsp;
     
  16. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "If the temptation had no effect, because there wasn’t the remotest chance that Jesus could have sinned, there would be, in effect, no temptation! "

    I'd say, no it wasn't impossible, but it was not acting like himself. For example if you frank wanted to go kill a random person you can, but it would be so totally unlike you.
     
  17. closer

    closer New Member

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    The best way I have heard the temptation put was that Jesus being both divine and human at the same time had a human nature that could sin. This being said that human nature did not sin.
    The issue I am seeing after starting this thread is that the apostle's Peter and Paul wrote Jesus did not sin. That being stated by the thread starter we must realize that to say Jesus did sin would be to totally void God's word. That becomes a very dangerous idea.
     
  18. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

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    Closer, Scores of statements could be given showing that Jesus was truly a man, truly fighting against sin, truly overcoming; truly learning, truly praying to the one true God who was greater than he. If Jesus was an all-powerful God just pretending to fight against temptation when really he could not be tempted, just pretending to pray to someone greater than himself for help and strength, then we in effect accuse the whole Gospel record of being a deception and a cruel mockery of man's real weakness, man's real and bitter struggle against sin.&nbsp;The trinity&nbsp;crushes all the beauty and meaning out of the life of Jesus Christ, the faithful and obedient Son who truly overcame and submitted to the will of the one true God, His Father.&nbsp; So to answer the question that started this thread, did Jesus sin?&nbsp; As I answered in my last post, a resounding NO! He never commited a single sin and it wasn't because it was impossible for Him to sin though He could have, it was because He&nbsp;rendered perfect submission and obedience to God.
     
  19. drmmjr

    drmmjr Regular Member

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    If Jesus were God and didn't have to worry about sinning, what does that do for us. NOTHING.

    But we have Jesus setting an example to us. By living and doing the will of the Father, He lived without sinning. That shows us that we too, buy living and doing the will of the Father can live without sin.

    A pastor in our area once mentioned at a Revival, that everyone sinned at least once a day. It was late in the evening, and someone asked him if he had sinned that day. He said that he hadn't. And the person then said, "Well, you should be able to do without sinning for the next 3 hours".

    The point is, if we live and do the will of God, then we to can live a sinless life.
     
  20. Warrior4Jah

    Warrior4Jah Conservative on a mission

    285
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    Have you read the bible? Everyone sins and thats the wya it is, which is why WE NEED CHRIST! To save us from our sins! Because to be without sin is to be perfect, and to be perfect in every way is to be God. Because only Jesus, only God, is perfect. We all sin every day.
     
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