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Did Jesus set the law aside when he opened the man’s eyes?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Aug 15, 2018.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Was the law put aside when Jesus created mud and opened the man's eyes on the Sabbath ?

    The mattress carrying was not an isolated incident. There are several.

    Jesus did not come to promote the law. The Father was prompting him to act in ways that provoked the Jewish religious leaders. The experts in the law.

    The gospel writer even makes the point clear. Jesus "made the mud" (a creative act) on the Sabbath. And obviously, the Father directed him in this clearly provocative act. Why?

    John 9:14
    Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man’s eyes was a Sabbath.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Compare.

    Genesis 2:2-3
    By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
    3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
     
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  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Not at all.

    HE appealed to (and thereby validated) the Pharisaic doctrine that any** of the 365 negative commands (Thou Shalt Not ...) are trumped by the positive commands.


    ** 2 exceptions: No adultery and no idolatry.
     
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Interesting question. I think Paul weighs in on this when he said love fulfills the Law (Sabbath too). The most hateful could keep the Ten Commandments for the wrong reason. God threatened death for disobedience and rewards for obedience. So in this he harnessed their greed and selfishness making it work for good. But Jesus fulfilled the Law in love. So loving people by healing them on the Sabbath fulfilled the law, where merely abstaining from one's own greed by not working did not.
     
  4. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    That is a New Covenant truth.
    The Mud was under the Mosaic covenant. And for our Lord (born a Jew, born under the Law - Gal 4.4) to break the Law or teach against it in any way would have been a sin and invalidated HIS sacrifice.
     
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  5. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He clarified the Law and demonstrated what he stated elsewhere:

    How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matthew 12:12, 1984 NIV)

    However, your thought is a good one. Whatever Jesus did would have had an impact on how we understand the Law.
     
  6. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Working on the Sabbath is never allowed. Work of any kind is forbidden. Some claim it has to be "occupational" work. But read the commandment. (see below)

    As a side note, Can you find the wife in this?

    Exodus 20:8-11
    “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
    9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
    10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God.
    On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter,
    nor your male or female servant, nor your animals,
    nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
    11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea,
    and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
    Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
     
  7. Doctor.Sphinx

    Doctor.Sphinx Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Jesus explain this Himself? The Pharisees were hypocrites, because they were quite happy to circumcise on the Sabbath, but when Jesus healed the whole man on the Sabbath, they accused Him of working. What's more work, to make some mud or touch a man, or to organise an entire circumcision ceremony?

    John 7:21 - 23
    Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

    Jesus even told them they'd go so far as to save an ass or an ox in a ditch, but he wasn't allowed to make some mud or touch someone?

    Luke 14:5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?

    The Sabbath was not for regular work, but healing is not a regular work, so the law was not put aside on the occasions Jesus healed.
     
  8. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    This has a very similar explanation to the mat carrying.

    The priest did tons of stuff on the Sabbath, which we might consider and define as being “work”, but since “worship” is not work they did it and kept the Sabbath Rest.

    Whatever Jesus did was in obedience to God and was thus worship and worship is not work.

    The priests circumcised on the eighth day even if it fell on a Sabbath since it was worship, so they were still keeping the Sabbath.

    The priest did lots of heavy lifting on the sabbath (wood, animals, water, flour) and lots of cleaning which made lots of mud on a dirty outer court floor, but that was worship.

    Jesus made mud because God directed Him to do so as part of worship. The fact that the person was healed shows God was part of it since Deity had to do the healing. If a person was not following God would you expect God to do what they asked? The Pharisees’ hearts would have to be extremely hard to see the person healed knowing it had to be Deity involved and turning to Jesus and saying: “You’re not obeying God”? They could not heal yet Jesus could, so who is following God’s leadership?
     
  9. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did it because he was LORD of sabbath , just like he conquer a city in OT on Sabbath
     
  10. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    Probably because God’s commandment doesn’t mean you are not allowed to do good. You should not do your work on shabbat day, but doing good is not same as doing your job.

    They were really hypocrites, after all, in OT, even guards (2 Kings 11:5) were allowed to work, but then Jesus was not allowed to heal the sick person. I think they were really evil.


    He said to them, "What man is there among you, who has one sheep, and if this one falls into a pit on the Sabbath day, won't he grab on to it, and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day."

    Matt. 12:11-12

    Law is still valid, but it should be understood as God has meant it.

    "Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
    Mat. 5:17-19
     
  11. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Jesus admitted the working part. Which was kind of a backwards "defense".

    John 5:16-18
    So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath,
    the Jewish leaders began to persecute him.
    17 In his defense Jesus said to them,
    “My Father is always at his work to this very day,
    and I too am working.”

    18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him;
    not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
    but he was even calling God his own Father,
    making himself equal with God.
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Jesus said this.

    Matthew 12:5
    Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?
     
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    No work of any kind on the Sabbath.

    Exodus 20:8-11
    “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
    9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
    10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God.
    On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter,
    nor your male or female servant, nor your animals,
    nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
    11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth,
    the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
    Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Thanks, Dave.

    I have noticed several of these examples where Jesus is intentionally provoking the experts in the law and leaders with these things he is doing. It seems to me that he is setting the law aside in each case. And not the stuff that was added to the law, but the law itself. Carrying mats and creating mud are violations of Sabbath law. IMO

    In the past I have concentrated on the writings of Paul for my position on the law, but then I started noticing these events in the gospels. I started collecting them as I studied further.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Right. I see several times in the gospels where Jesus is in clear violation of the Sabbath law. He cannot be sinning, therefore he must be setting the law aside. IMHO
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks for the post and comments. I think Jesus fulfilled the Law in love even though the Jews thought he was breaking it. Works of love on the Sabbath VS works of greed.
     
  17. John Bowen

    John Bowen Active Member Supporter

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    The sabbath was created for man, man wasn't created for the sabbath. Jesus did many things to provoke people to shake them out of their comfort zone The ways that seem right unto a man , but our the ways of death .If people aren't growing in spirit they are dying .
     
  18. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    We are all in agreement that Jesus was not sinning when he did these things.

    The disagreement I have with many is that I see these acts as violations of the actual law, not violations of the Jewish traditions added to the law, but a violation of the law itself.

    Simply put, work of any kind was a violation of Sabbath law. No mat-carrying, no mud-making. Even Jesus admitted that the healings were work. (John 5:17) And let's face it, that was his occupation. So, yes, occupational work for Jesus on the Sabbath.

    With that in mind I can only conclude that Jesus was putting the law aside. Something that began when John the Baptist arrived (Matthew 11:13), and continued throughout the life of Christ and beyond. When the Apostle Paul arrived and began to write, he was able to articulate this fact in words we could finally understand.

    Galatians 2:21
    I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

    Galatians 5:4
    You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

    Galatians 3:23-25
    Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law,
    locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
    24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
    25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
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  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Thanks.

    Since "man wasn't created for the sabbath" are we obligated to observe it?
     
  20. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    There are many who look at the Sabbath as a bad thing. A day where you cannot do things. They carefully consider each movement to avoid doing any work. That is what the Pharisees specialized in.

    What went completely over their heads is the fact that the Sabbath is supposed to be a blessing.
    But many view it as a curse. All they see is what they CANNOT do and miss the whole point of it.
    There are those who seem to never stop working and doing things. It is this type of person who needed to be told about not doing specific things because of their tendencies to unconsciously do them anyway.
    It would be like if you caught the flu and your doctor tells you "call off work, go home, turn off your phone, don't sweep the floor, don't watch tv - just get some sleep". Those things listed were not an absolute list. He could have named dozens of types of physical exertion, but he just named a few.
    So the purpose for this commandment is that we get a day to rest, recharge and have quality time with God. For many today, Sunday is the only day they ever get any spiritual activity.

    So I think that any act of kindness on the Sabbath may at times trump an item on the "do not" list.
     
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