Did Jesus set the law aside at the Bethesda pool?

[Saint Steven]

The mat is not a load (Which would be regarded as carrying out manual labor). It is merely his sleeping mat. Nobody who carries a sleeping mat does so with the intention of carrying out physical labor. Well, unless one is a sleep doctor or something. But I don't think they had those back then.

Besides, even if it was a violation (Which it wasn't),

"...the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." (Matthew 12:8).

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30).

This says don't do ANY work on the Sabbath. And specifically not to carry a load on the Sabbath.

Jeremiah 17:21-22
This is what the Lord says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem.
22 Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your ancestors.

 

[bling]

Good question. I thought of this too. The other thing that comes to mind here is that Jesus did not overide any of the other commandments that I know of. Thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not steal etc. Only the Sabbath day. Or am I wrong?

In this gospel account (text below) of the healing at the Bethesda pool, Jesus commands the man to, "Pick up your mat and walk." In obeying Christ, the man broke Sabbath law. No load is to be carried on the Sabbath. Jesus could have asked the man to rise up and walk. Why did he include the mat carrying?

Notice that the gospel writer adds the note that the day on which this took place was a Sabbath. Why is this significant? There is no dispute in the passage that this was not a violation of Sabbath law.
.

The priests on the Sabbath did tons of stuff, but it was not "work" (something they were paid to do, since God would not have paid worshippers). Worship is not "work", so what is worship? Righteous worship is the offering up obedience to God's (Deity's) commands. Jesus (Deity) commanded the person to carry the mat so out of obedience to Deity's command the person should worship by obeying.
Jesus I feel was making a point about who He was.

 

[SkyWriting]

In this gospel account (text below) of the healing at the Bethesda pool, Jesus commands the man to, "Pick up your mat and walk." In obeying Christ, the man broke Sabbath law. No load is to be carried on the Sabbath. Jesus could have asked the man to rise up and walk. Why did he include the mat carrying?

Notice that the gospel writer adds the note that the day on which this took place was a Sabbath. Why is this significant? There is no dispute in the passage that this was not a violation of Sabbath law.

Was the law set aside when Jesus commanded this act of Sabbath-breaking?

John 5:8-11
Then Jesus said to him, “Get up! Pick up your mat and walk.”
9 At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked.
The day on which this took place was a Sabbath,
10 and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed,
“It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.”
11 But he replied, “The man who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’ ”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jeremiah 17:21-22
This is what the Lord says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem.
22 Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your ancestors.

Treating others as you would wish to be treated
is the foundation for all law. Jesus followed the
correct law and set aside miscellaneous laws
that would interfere with the foundation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This says don't do ANY work on the Sabbath. And specifically not to carry a load on the Sabbath.

Jeremiah 17:21-22
This is what the Lord says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem.
22 Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your ancestors.

Again, a load would be like a giant suitcase of your stuff or large sack full of goodies. A mat does not really qualify as a load. I know. I work with lifting heavy loads almost every day. A mat would not qualify as a load to me. It is also not work to carry something that is lightweight and intended for general needs like a small pouch full of water or food or something to sleep on. Labor or work was generally intensive back then. The Pharisees were nitpicking with their man made rules that were simply not true. God's Word does not condemn carrying light weight containers that held water, or food, or a sleeping mat, etc. on the Sabbath. It is only when the individual's intention is done with laborious intensive work that is condemned and they are carrying obvious heavy loads as a part of a job.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What do you make of this?

Ephesians 2:14-16
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

This officially took place at the cross. Many of the ceremonial and judicial laws in the Old Testament are now no more. We are primarily to look to the commands in the New Testament and not the Old Testament commands in order to obey God. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree.

It is interesting that Jesus was treating the law as hearsay in Matthew chapter five. And replacing the statements with his own. (the law set aside)

However, as you may be aware: Jesus was implementing New Laws or commands, and He was not eradicating all forms of Law entirely.

 

[Saint Steven]

The priests on the Sabbath did tons of stuff, but it was not "work" (something they were paid to do, since God would not have paid worshippers). Worship is not "work", so what is worship? Righteous worship is the offering up obedience to God's (Deity's) commands. Jesus (Deity) commanded the person to carry the mat so out of obedience to Deity's command the person should worship by obeying.
Jesus I feel was making a point about who He was.

That's a very interesting point of view on this. (winner)
Jesus made reference to what you are saying in the grainfield incident.

Matthew 12:5
Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

 

[Saint Steven]

Again, a load would be like a giant suitcase of your stuff or large sack full of goodies. A mat does not really qualify as a load. I know. I work with lifting heavy loads almost every day. A mat would not qualify as a load to me. It is also not work to carry something that is lightweight and intended for general needs like a small pouch full of water or food or something to sleep on. Labor or work was generally intensive back then. The Pharisees were nitpicking with their man made rules that were simply not true.

That seems like a personal opinion. We are talking about the law. How did you come to that conclusion?

Can you find the wife in this commandment? (see below)
What was "work" for everyone else listed here?

Exodus 20:8-10
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.

 

[Saint Steven]

This officially took place at the cross. Many of the ceremonial and judicial laws in the Old Testament are now no more. We are primarily to look to the commands in the New Testament and not the Old Testament commands in order to obey God. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

Was not the whole law set aside?

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[Saint Steven]

However, as you may be aware: Jesus was implementing New Laws or commands, and He was not eradicating all forms of Law entirely.

Just to be clear.
When I write "the law", I am referring to the law that God gave to Israel alone through Moses.

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

 

[discipler7]

In this gospel account (text below) of the healing at the Bethesda pool, Jesus commands the man to, "Pick up your mat and walk." In obeying Christ, the man broke Sabbath law. No load is to be carried on the Sabbath. Jesus could have asked the man to rise up and walk. Why did he include the mat carrying?
Did Jesus set the law aside at the Bethesda pool?

No, because the Scribes and Pharisees had corrupted the Law, eg by wrongly interpreting the Sabbath-rest-day. Was a beggar or disabled picking up his/her sleeping-mat equate to carrying a load.? Is picking up your wallet/purse equate to carrying a load.?

MATTHEW.23: = Woe to the Scribes and Pharisees
1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’

8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. ...

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's a very interesting point of view on this. (winner)
Jesus made reference to what you are saying in the grainfield incident.

Matthew 12:5
Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

Here is something another person wrote that I found helpful.

According to Christianity Jesus fulfills the office of Priest, Prophet and King. David is very unique in that he is the only other person in the scriptures that fulfills these offices as well. David wrote about the messiah. There is no doubt he is one of Israel's greatest prophets. The same can be said of him as king. But we rarely see him as priest. This is a mistake as there is a tremendous theological connection. 1 Samuel 21:6 says

so the priest have him holy bread, for no other bread was at hand except the showbread which had been removed from the Lords presence and replaced by fresh bread when it was taken away.

David ate holy bread. What's intriguing is that it was with the blessing of a priest. What's more intriguing is that he was the future king of Israel. Even more is how he partook of it with his men. And how they had kept themselves pure and consecrated for days prior to their arrival. David knew the bread was for priests only. His men knew it was for priests only.The priest knew it was for priests only. Yet something felt right about it. Something was right about it. Even with God. The bible says that the showbread was "removed from the Lords presence" just for David. This was no ordinary man. No ordinary anointing. No ordinary call. Had he partaken in an unworthy manner he would have fell dead the moment he ate the bread.

Jesus goes on to say something that gives us more insight into the matter. In Matthew 12, after he mentions David and his men eating the bread, Jesus says,

or have you not read in the law that in the Sabbath the priests serving in the temple violate the Sabbath and are innocent?

This is significant because by saying this Jesus is connecting the innocence of David with the innocence of the priests and ultimately with the innocence of the Apostles. What is important here is that the only way David can be innocent is if he is a priest and Jesus connects his innocence specifically to that of a priest.

Lastly, in 2 Samuel 6:12-14, after David was anointed and made king, he brought back the ark of the covenant and he sacrificed an ox and a fatlling. Sacrifices, as we know, were done by priests and In this passage we not only see David sacrificing but also wearing a linen apron which is just what a priest would wear.

Eating holy bread. Sacrificing. Wearing a linen apron. Building temples. Yes, I think he was a priest. I know he wasn't a Levite. But neither was Jesus. Or Melchizedek.

In conclusion, one of the most beautiful theological messages of this passage has to do with the bread and the fact that everyone that was with David partook. I believe this is symbolic of the body of Jesus. The bread is Jesus.​

Source:
Rudy Caberera

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That seems like a personal opinion. We are talking about the law. How did you come to that conclusion?

Can you find the wife in this commandment? (see below)
What was "work" for everyone else listed here?

Exodus 20:8-10
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.

No, my friend. It is not personal opinion. The dictionary defines it the way I have always known the word my whole life.

Load

lōd/
noun
noun: load; plural noun: loads

• a heavy or bulky thing that is being carried or is about to be carried.
• the total number or amount that can be carried in something, especially a vehicle of a specified type.
  "a tractor-trailer load of new appliances"
• an amount of items washed or to be washed in a washing machine or dishwasher at one time.
  "I do at least six loads of washing a week"

Source:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/load

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just to be clear.
When I write "the law", I am referring to the law that God gave to Israel alone through Moses.

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

That is good. That is the way Paul regarded the word "law" most times, too. Many today think the word "law" mentioned by Paul was in reference to all forms of law (Including the commands of Jesus and His followers - when this was not the case).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Was not the whole law set aside?

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Yes, and no. In one sense, the Old Law is abolished because the "Law" was put away as a whole or in general in the fact that the Old Covenant is no more. However, in another sense (or way), there are still some laws that have been repeated or carried on over into the New Testament (Like the Moral Laws). Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, and do not commit adultery is referred to as the righteousness of the Law (which is another way of saying to love your neighbor (See Romans 8:4 cf. with Romans 13:8-10)).

For example: Rick had made a contract with Bob. However, Bob did not like the contract and desired for Rick to change it. So Rick destroyed or abolished the old contract and made a new one with some changes in it. The Old Contract is no more and yet there are changes made from the Old Contract (With some things still being the same).

 

[bling]

That's a very interesting point of view on this. (winner)
Jesus made reference to what you are saying in the grainfield incident.

Matthew 12:5
Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

Right! Under the Christian dispensation (the age of Jubilee) we are all priests in constant "worship". We can live each moment in obedience to God's commands and thus be able to offer up our obedient lives as worship to God.

 

[icxn]

What do you make of this?

Jeremiah 17:21-22
This is what the Lord says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem.
22 Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your ancestors.

Like I said above, sin is the true (spiritual) load here, whether it comes out of the heart (Matthew 15:19) that houses the inner man or it is performed in action as if work. I don't deny the literal performance of this law. It was given to the Jews as a type and a reminder in hopes that one day they will understand and carry out the intend behind it. That day came with the coming of Christ.

 

[Hank77]

I think that there are misunderstandings when Jesus is talking to the Pharisees about what the Pharisees had added to Moses' Law with their Rabbinical Oral Law.

The New Way:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39).

The Old Way:
"And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again." (Leviticus 24:19-20)

Matthew 5:38-39 is talking about taking revenge on someone who has wronged you.

Leviticus 24:19-20 is establishing civil law judgements through the court. What someone is owed when they cannot be made whole any other way. In the case of a servant they were given their freedom.

The New Way:
"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." (Matthew 15:11).

They weren't discussing food in this conversation. The Pharisees asked why the disciples didn't perform the hand washing/cleansing ritual before they ate. Jesus said that not performing this cleansing ritual before touching their food didn't defile the man but what came out of his mouth could.

The Old Way:
"And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
(Leviticus 11:1-18).

This is the Law of clean and unclean foods and not what Jesus and the Pharisees were discussing.

 

[Hank77]

That's a very interesting point of view on this. (winner)
Jesus made reference to what you are saying in the grainfield incident.

Matthew 12:5
Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

I agree with what @bling said.
The very next verses give the explanation.

Mat 12:6 and I say to you, that a greater than the temple is here;
Mat 12:7 and if ye had known what is: Kindness I will, and not sacrifice--ye had not condemned the blameless,
Mat 12:8 for the son of man is lord even of the sabbath.'

 

[Saint Steven]

Right! Under the Christian dispensation (the age of Jubilee) we are all priests in constant "worship". We can live each moment in obedience to God's commands and thus be able to offer up our obedient lives as worship to God.

What do you mean when you say "God's commands"?