Did Jesus save us from God?

[Confused-by-christianity]

You're the quintessential antagonist in these kinds of threads.

How ought we respond to antagonistic people? I’m not the most receptive person myself.

you’d say (mostly every Christian that is) “we ought respond in love without judging”, but how so ?? Personally - I have two sides, I’m conflicted…
One side says give benefit of doubt - you don’t know what they are struggling with.
The other side says cut them loose straight away. Only a fool gets sucked into pointless arguments.

I don’t know what’s right haha

 

[Clare73]

Its not so much emotions but passions that we have to control.
From the years of my youth, many passions combat me, but you who are my Savior, assist me and save me. –from the First Antiphon of the Anavathmoi

And there can be a lot of passion in emotion.

 

[Clare73]

How ought we respond to antagonistic people? I’m not the most receptive person myself.

you’d say (mostly every Christian that is) “we ought respond in love without judging”, but how so ??

Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. (1 Corinthians 13:6)

We ought to respond to all in patience, kindness, without envy, boasting, pride, rudeness, self-seeking, anger or keeping track of wrongs.

There is justified "directness" toward those not speaking in good faith; those opposed to God or his word; those misrepresenting, defaming or libeling; those deliberatly speaking untruth; etc., etc., etc. (John 8:40-41, 44; Luke 11:47-54, etc.)

Christians are to judge: doctrine and open sin in the body.

 

[Hmm]

I don't think I understand what you mean by "protesting too much."
Are you intending Shakespeare's meaning in his use of it. . .to cover guilt. . .or not what it appears to be?

To me the meaning is that if someone says something too persistently and fervently, it's to try to cover up the opposite feeling. E.g. a lovestruck teenager saying "No, I don't like her!".

 

[Ceallaigh]

Not if they are not grounded in the whole counsel of God, which one may need to seek before deciding.

What one considers the whole counsel of God, is based in part on perception (feelings). Otherwise the whole body of Christ would all be in agreement and have a unified doctrine.

 

[Ceallaigh]

To me the meaning is that if someone says something too persistently and fervently, it's to try to cover up the opposite feeling. E.g. a lovestruck teenager saying "No, I don't like her!".

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

[Hmm]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Exactly!

 

[Clare73]

You mean about trusting doctrine? Some doctrines are wrong and are quietly dropped.

More dodging, so for the third time, you have not answered my question in post #101.

To me the meaning is that if someone says something too persistently and fervently,
it's to try to cover up the opposite feeling. E.g. a lovestruck teenager saying "No, I don't like her!".

Thanks. . .
So what opposite "feeling" am I covering up?

And what does "feeling" have to do with the truth?

Pardon me for saying so, but that is so simplistic.

Could it be that assuming someone really has the '"opposite" feeling of what they are defending is simply one's own justification for denial of the truth they are presenting?

 

[Hmm]

So what opposite "feeling" am I covering up?

And what does "feeling" have to do with the truth?

I've already mentioned one. I don't believe you think God would eternally torment anyone. Another would be that I don't believe you think feelings have no meaning. The reason I think that is because you always immediately dismiss any counter views to those even as possibilities: you doth protest too much. But that's just my opinion of course and nothing really I can argue with you about, and so I won't!

 

[Clare73]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

What one considers the whole counsel of God, is based in part on perception (feelings). Otherwise the whole body of Christ would all be in agreement and have a unified doctrine.

So we are to view your statement regarding the wrath of God on sin from Romans 5:9 as simply a matter of your feelings, and your denial of our view as "not just a river in Egypt?"

The counsel of God is to be demonstrated (not based on just one's feelings), taking Scripture at its word in the light of all Scripture, just as you demonstrate the wrath of God on sin with Romans 5:9.

You're arguing against yourself here.

(Apology accepted.)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

And there can be a lot of passion in emotion.

Passion? Emotions? What are those?

 

[Clare73]

I've already mentioned one. I don't believe you think God would eternally torment anyone. Another would be that I don't believe you think feelings have no meaning.

Good for you, because that would be misrepresentation of what I have said.

The reason I think that is because you always immediately dismiss any counter views to those even as possibilities: you doth protest too much.

I do immediately dismiss what is contrary to clearly stated Scripture.

But that's just my opinion of course and nothing really I can argue with you about, and so I won't!

Well, for the sake of clarification regarding your opinion:

I am more than clear that our ways are not God's ways (Isaiah 55:8-9), and that when we determine the nature, in contradiction to his word, of anything about God based on our ways, we are dead wrong.
And that's not about my "feelings," that's about spiritual wisdom of the Holy Spirit.

And I still think you are a nice guy.

 

[Clare73]

Passion? Emotions? What are those?

Gads! What a nightmare of an avatar!

Where ya' been? Long time no see.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, God can't be both loving and sadistic. Trying to believe that he is will either lead to a moral dilemma which can be severe or to rejecting faith in him altogether.

The term cognitive dissonance seems to fit.

 

[Clare73]

The term cognitive dissonance seems to fit.

The only cognitove dissonance is in your theology.

 

[Saint Steven]

Its not so much emotions but passions that we have to control.
From the years of my youth, many passions combat me, but you who are my Savior, assist me and save me. –from the First Antiphon of the Anavathmoi

Some passions are good. And God put them in our heart.

 

[Clare73]

Some passions are good. And God put them in our heart.

All good things in excess become not good.

 

[lsume]

"Did Jesus save us from God?" seems to be a common question/saying among those who believe in universal salvation.

But Romans 5:9 seems to indicate that's exactly what happened:

"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him"

The question is answered in your quote from Romans 5:9. The beautiful plan through Christ is how we’re introduced to God The Father and His Perfect Love.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Passion? Emotions? What are those?

Why even ask such questions in a thread about wrath?

 

[Ceallaigh]

So we are to view your statement regarding the wrath of God on sin from Romans 5:9 as simply a matter of your feelings, and your denial of our view as "not just a river in Egypt?"

I haven't made a statement yet. And who's we and our?

The counsel of God is to be demonstrated (not based on just one's feelings), taking Scripture at its word in the light of all Scripture, just as you demonstrate the wrath of God on sin with Romans 5:9.

The whole counsel of God can't really be summed up in a single verse. In this case really a single word in a single verse.

You're arguing against yourself here.

You're the ones putting yourselves in plurals, not me.

(Apology accepted.)

What's the weather like on your planet?