• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

Did Jesus save us from God?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by MMXX, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +2,252
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Good question!

    In the context of Romans 2:7-8, the Greek reads:
    7: "to the (ones) on one hand seeking by endurance of (in) good work glory and honor and incorruption eternal life;
    8: to the (ones) on the other of self-seeking and disobeying the truth but obeying unrighteousness, wrath and anger."

    Grammatically, Romans 2:7-8 means:
    "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking, and who reject the truth and follow evil, (there will be) wrath and anger."

    Does that help?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  2. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +9,355
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Like this...

    Genesis 4:7 NIV
    If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

    James 1:14-15 NIV
    but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
     
  3. misput

    misput jimd

    626
    +236
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Analogy, if you create a dog that can bite and kill, and it bites and kills, you must die also.

    Christ/God did not die to save us from Himself, He died to save us from our self.
     
  4. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +2,252
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    God (Jesus Christ) died to save us from the wrath of God (himself). Romans 5:9
     
  5. misput

    misput jimd

    626
    +236
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I believe there is a sense in which God lives in every living thing. We humans have the ability to accept Him and live or reject Him too our own destruction. We can correctly speak of it as Gods wrath but actually it is our own wrath that destroys us.
     
  6. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +2,252
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    "We" don't speak of it as "God's wrath," the word of God does, and it is not ours to alter it
    (1 Corinthians 4:6).

    Why the need to wrestle the Scriptures (2 Peter 3:16)?
    .
     
  7. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

    +203
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    He saves us from the legal and natural consequences that GOD institutes against the freely chosen rebellion (sin) of HIS creation.
     
  8. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

    724
    +505
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    (1) Jesus is fully God and human. You're asking if Jesus saved us from himself?
    (2) God the first Person sent God the second Person in the power of God the third Person as the one true God to satisfy his own just verdict of guilty against humanity's rebellion.
    (3) Why would you ask that question?
     
  9. misput

    misput jimd

    626
    +236
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Because they are spiritual and not meant to be consumed as milk or read like a first grade text book our whole life.
     
  10. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +2,252
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    It's not about being "consumed as milk" (more futzing with the written word).

    "Milk" is not about how God's word is consumed, "milk" is about what of God's word is consumed' i.e., "milk" being the "elementary truths" of God's word (Hebrews 5:12)--repentance, faith in God, baptism, laying on of hands, the resurrection, eternal judgment (Hebrews 6:1-2)--not how God's word is to be "consumed," and
    "milk" being in contrast to "meat" (solid food) of God's word, which in this case is "the teaching about righteousness." (Hebrews 5:13-14).

    Where do we find in Scripture that Scripture is not to be taken at its word?

    What we do find in Scripture is that they are the truth written, beyond which we are not to go
    (1 Corinthians 4:6), as is being done here.

    Do you really think your "spiritual" presentation above is an improvement on the truth of the plain words themselves there?

    You usually do better than that. . .
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
  11. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +9,355
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    It seems to be the claim of those who believe in a forever burning hell. (though they likely won't admit it)

    Let me rephrase the question to see if you might agree, or disagree.

    Did Jesus die to save us from the wrath of God?

    If so, isn't there a more obvious solution to this problem?

    Children with temper tantrums are put in a corner until they can work it out. (control their temper) We don't allow them to incinerate their siblings.

    Did Jesus die to save us from the wrath of God?
     
  12. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

    +3,393
    Canada
    Anglican
    Married
    Karma: the law of sin and death.
     
  13. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

    +3,393
    Canada
    Anglican
    Married
    The 2nd Person didn't have enough power? He's not omnipotent in your view?

    The 1st Person could not be Good enough to forgive His enemies without having the 2nd person killed to get the 1st Person satisfied? Does God ask from us to live to higher standard than His own standard of goodness?

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +2,252
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    I couldn't have stated the glory of the gospel any better myself!

    That God himself (Jesus Christ) would suffer the penalty of his own just wrath on our sin in our place that he might have fellowship with those who be
    lieve in their Savior!

    Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to those who are reconciled to him through faith in their Savior, and the enmity set aside! (Romans 5:9-10)
    Children?

    Is that what we do with adult children in our own justice system for criminals who violate the law?

    Would you like to rewrite those laws also. . .so that we just stand murderers in the corner until they can work it out?

    It's not complicated. . .
    .
     
  15. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +2,252
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    You don't believe the gospel?

    God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement (payment of the penalty for sin, as the OT "trespass" animal sacrifices were the payment of the penalty for sin of the Israelite; i.e, death in place of the sinner--
    Leviticus 5:6-7, 15, 6:6, 26:41-43) through faith in his blood. (Romans 3:25)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
  16. misput

    misput jimd

    626
    +236
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    That is the problem, a literalist does not have a clue.
     
  17. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +2,252
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Circular. . .

    And if you did, would you not answer my question specifically. . .as well as address the Scriptures presented?
     
  18. misput

    misput jimd

    626
    +236
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Sorry Clare, I am unable to put into written words what I think and besides I may be wrong but I assure you most scripture is not meant to be understood literally like a child's textbook. It's usually much deeper than that. Like Paul Harvey used to say, "and that's the rest of the story, good day" : )
     
  19. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    +2,252
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    No problem. . .I understand. . .I know your good track record here.
     
  20. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

    +3,581
    Australia
    Christian
    Single
    God's justice system must be better than man's, correct?

    If so, then how Clare, pray tell, does the punishment fit the crime in ECT, where it's (a) a 'one size fits all' and (b) infinitely excessive to the sins committed?

    It's like a judge sentencing everyone from murderer to candy-pilferer to the electric chair.

    Justice is served!
     
Loading...