Did Jesus save us from God?

[Clare73]

Repentence is physical not vicarious... God can't be bribed... especially in a system where the rich could be as sinful as they could afford to be.

Psalms 51:16-17 For if thou desiredst sacrifice, I would have given it: thou wilt not take pleasure in whole-burnt-offerings. 17 Sacrifice to God is a broken spirit: a broken and humbled heart God will not despise.

Esaias 66:2-3 For all these things are Mine, saith the Lord: and to whom will I have respect, but to the humble and meek, and the man that trembles at My words? 3 But the transgressor that sacrifices a calf to Me, is as he that kills a dog; and he that offers fine flour, as one that offers swine’s blood; he that gives frankincense for a memorial, is as a blasphemer. Yet they have chosen their own ways, and their soul has delighted in their abominations.LXX

Michaeas 6:6-8 Wherewithal shall I reach the Lord, and lay hold of My God most high? shall I reach Him by whole-burnt-offerings, by calves of a year old? 7 Will the Lord accept thousands of rams, or ten thousands of fat goats? should I give my first-born for ungodliness, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 Has it not been told thee, O man, what is good? or what does the Lord require of thee, but to do justice, and love mercy, and be ready to walk with the Lord thy God?LXX

So you reject the NT gospel?

Now where'd you get the idea that the circumcision has to either accept or reject the uncircumcision gospel?

That's a "yes."

We have no basis for discussion.

Other people's mail, not mine, Galatians 2:7-9.
I follow the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, for the circumcision:

Matthew 28:16-20 Then the Eleven Disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and disciple always the Nation, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matthew 10:5--Matthew 11:1 is one long commandment from Jesus to His Galilean Disciples, saying whom to teach and what to teach them:

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; and as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Therefore, the 11 of Galilee were forever commanded this about Paul's gentiles: "Go not into the way of the gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not"

 

[FredVB]

"Did Jesus save us from God?" seems to be a common question/saying among those who believe in universal salvation.

But Romans 5:9 seems to indicate that's exactly what happened:

"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him"

God's wrath does not negate that there is God's love and there is God's longsuffering. God is perfectly good. Jesus Christ is the same one being, God, being the incarnation of Logos the Word with God who is God, and is in perfect agreement with the heavenly Father, God, in any and all things. With repentance any should turn to Christ for being reconciled to God through atonement and being delivered from sinning. Without that any still perish, all need this. It was not God's will that any perish. Sin is alienating any from God, who still has wrath to that rebellion to God's will.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Gods wrath is the wrath of the Lamb..


Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

[renniks]

"Did Jesus save us from God?" seems to be a common question/saying among those who believe in universal salvation.

But Romans 5:9 seems to indicate that's exactly what happened:

"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him"

God's righteous anger is one of the things we are saved from through Christ.
We are also saved to eternity with God.
We are rescued from Satan's power by Christ ultimately defeating evil.
We are saved by Christ paying our ransom.
And he's our scapegoat.
Did I miss any?

 

[prophecy_uk]

God's righteous anger is one of the things we are saved from through Christ.
We are also saved to eternity with God.
We are rescued from Satan's power by Christ ultimately defeating evil.
We are saved by Christ paying our ransom.
And he's our scapegoat.
Did I miss any?

Yes, who is this we ?

You then cross over to He, and think that is some good description of a goat ?




Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Hmm]

Gods wrath is the wrath of the Lamb..

I find it hard to visualise a wrathful lamb!

 

[prophecy_uk]

I find it hard to visualise a wrathful lamb!

I guess that is why the nations will be angry, as they never believed in that wrath of God also, to now DESTROY THOSE WHO DESTROY THE EARTH...


Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[Clare73]

I find it hard to visualise a wrathful lamb!

Yep. . .we know. . .and if it doesn't suit our fancies, then it can't be true.

 

[renniks]

Yes, who is this we ?

The redeemed.

 

[Saint Steven]

God's righteous anger is one of the things we are saved from through Christ.

Then you must agree that Jesus died to save us from God, right?

 

[renniks]

Then you must agree that Jesus died to save us from God, right?

In a sense.

 

[Clare73]

Then you must agree that Jesus died to save us from God, right?

Why did he come to die an atoning death (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:9, Romans 5:11; Hebrews 2:17) for the ransom of many (Matthew 20:28)?

 

[Saint Steven]

In a sense.

Does that MAKE sense?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Then you must agree that Jesus died to save us from God, right?

 

[renniks]

Does that MAKE sense?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Then you must agree that Jesus died to save us from God, right?

Of course.

"Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all."


Note this isn't child abuse but that Jesus willingly took our punishment.

 

[Saint Steven]

Of course.

Somehow, you don't understand how crazy that is.
What does that say about God if Jesus had to die to save us from him?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Does that MAKE sense?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Then you must agree that Jesus died to save us from God, right?

 

[renniks]

Somehow, you don't understand how crazy that is.
What does that say about God if Jesus had to die to save us from him?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Does that MAKE sense?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Then you must agree that Jesus died to save us from God, right?

So, just ignore scripture and tell me it's crazy?
Not very convincing.

 

[Saint Steven]

So, just ignore scripture and tell me it's crazy?
Not very convincing.

If you think scripture tells you that Jesus died to save you from God, then you don't understand scripture.

 

[Clare73]

If you think scripture tells you that Jesus died to save you from God, then you don't understand scripture.

Why did he come to die an atoning death (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:9, Romans 5:11; Hebrews 2:17) for the ransom of many (Matthew 20:28)?

 

[renniks]

If you think scripture tells you that Jesus died to save you from God, then you don't understand scripture.

So what does this mean:
"the punishment that brought us peace was on him"

And this:
"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."

And do you just ignore all the places in the Bible where God punished people for sinning?

 

[Saint Steven]

So what does this mean:
"the punishment that brought us peace was on him"

And this:
"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."

And do you just ignore all the places in the Bible where God punished people for sinning?

If Jesus had to stand between us and God to save us, then there is no love in God. It means we weren't saved by the love of God, but rather by the love of Jesus. Does that make sense?