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Featured Did Jesus really say do not preach to the gentiles?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    In Matthew 10:5 Jesus tells the 12 "Do not go among the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel" this also is later confirmed in the book of Acts when the 12 mostly visited and preached the Gospel to the Jews. It wasn't until Paul came into the picture that salvation was offered to the Gentiles. So was salvation meant for the Gentiles? Or for Jews only?
     
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  2. tampasteve

    tampasteve Lutheran Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    At the time, yes. But after the Resurrection Jesus opened the commission:
    Matthew 28:
    18 AndJesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

    "all nations" is the same as saying all people, or the gentiles.
     
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  3. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    That's true. So maybe the gentiles at the time couldn't be saved? Because otherwise why would Jesus say "Don't go to the Gentiles but the Jews?"
     
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  4. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    Yes. It was to be preached first to the Jews and then to the gentiles.
     
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  5. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Of course they could be saved but the mission was to Israel first.

    People have always been justified by faith alone. There are no separate dispensation when God does a "gotcha" on anybody.
     
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  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Looking at Commentaries can help. "Pulpit Commentary" is a favorite of mine.

    Matthew 10:5 biblehub

    Matthew 10:5 Commentaries: biblehub

    Pulpit Commentary
    *snip*

    (1) That it was only right that the proclamation of the coming of Messiah should be thoroughly made to the Jews first. Had they accepted it, they would have become the great factors in the evangelization of the Gentiles (cf. Romans 11:12, 15); as they rejected it, it was necessary that the offer should, apart from them, be made to others (Acts 28:28). ...........................................

    (2) The apostles were as yet in no fit state spiritually to carry the message beyond their own nation, and the facts which they were in a position to proclaim might, when proclaimed alone, have proved a stumbling-block to the after-acceptance by Gentiles and Samaritaus of a fuller and therefore truer message (cf. Matthew 28:18, sqq.; Acts 1:8). Therefore they are now bid perform their present duty without turning away from it, and, as we may add, will-out anticipating their entrance upon a wider sphere. Saying, Go not. This would be outside your course (ἀπέλθητε). In the Greek, however, the following words receive the emphasis. Into the (any, Revised Version) way of the Gentiles (εἰς ὁδὸν ἐθνῶν).

    Footnotes

    (1) These words are generally understood to mean "into any road that would lead to Gentile lands or districts." So Tyndale, "Go not into the wayes that leade to the gentyls." (For this genitive of direction, cf. Matthew 4:15; Jeremiah 2:18, and perhaps, Judith 5:14.)

    (2) Weiss, 'Matthaus-ev.,' takes them as equivalent to "into any street in a heathen land," making the genitives, ἐθνῶν and Σαμαρειτῶν, both possessive. There are serious objections to these two interpretations; to the first, that the genitives are then used in different senses; to the second, that it suggests something altogether outside the Israelitish border.

    (3) Is not a third interpretation possible - to consider flint our Lord had in his mind the parts of towns, otherwise Jewish, which were inhabited by heathen, just as, in the days of Omri and Ahab, such parts were assigned to Syrians in Samaria, and to Israelites in Damascus, or in modern times to Jews in Christian towns? We have not, indeed, direct evidence of Gentiles, during the time of our Lord, thus living in separate streets, but with the Jewish aversion to even letting them houses and to having more to do with them than possible (cf. Schurer, II. 1:51-56), it would seem probable that, without any formal arrangement being made, the result would be separation of this kind. It is true that ὁδός is not used elsewhere in this sense in the New Testament, but a comparison of passages in the LXX. seems to justify our so interpreting it........................
    ===============
    Barnes' Notes on the Bible
    Into the way of the Gentiles - That is, among the Gentiles, or nowhere but among the Jews. The full time for preaching the gospel to the Gentiles was not come. It was proper that it should be first preached to the Jews, the ancient covenant people of God, and the people among whom the Messiah was born. Afterward he gave them a charge to go into all the world, Matthew 28:19.
    ===================
    Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
    These twelve Jesus sent forth,...

    saying, go not into the way of the Gentiles; meaning, not the customs' and manners of the Heathens, they were to avoid; but that they were not to steer their course, or take their journey towards them: they were not, as yet, to go among them, and preach the Gospel to them; the calling of the Gentiles was not a matter, as yet, so clearly revealed and known, nor was the time of their calling come: besides it was the will of God, that the Gospel should be first preached to the Jews, to take off all excuse from them, and that their obstinacy and perverseness in rejecting Jesus as the Messiah, might manifestly appear; and since Christ himself was the minister of the circumcision, he would have his apostles, for the present, whilst he was on earth, act agreeably to the character he bore, that there might be an entire harmony in their conduct.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
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  7. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    To the Jew first and then to the Nations. The New Covenant was for Israel...read Jeremiah.
     
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  8. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    The LORD made the promises to the nation of Israel and also recorded in the prophecies that the stone rejected has become the chief corner stone. You see way back to Abaraham was the promise that He would become a great nation and in his seed all the nations of the world would be blessed. This seed is Jesus and the genealogy goes from Abraham through David to Jesus. But the promise even goes back farther to the garden when the seed of the woman is said to crush the seed of the serpent and that genealogy goes to Noah up to Abraham to Jesus too. Jesus will crush the head of Satan at the 2nd coming and He will reign forever. The LORD road into Jerusalem on the donkey as the king coming and they hailed save now and all. Jesus wept for Jerusalem for He knew the cross would come and they would get wiped out as it happened in 70AD. The plot does not end there as Hosea said in the place where it was said you are not my people you shall be called sons of the living God Many have taught that the church is now Israel and in one sense that is true. The afterlife kingdom of heaven is only those who are saved. But if you read Zech 14 and Dan 2 7 and Rev 11 we see the kingdom coming to earth too. The LORD will save Israel and they will believe upon Jesus as God the son. In Luke 1 you can see the Holy Spirit speak through Zacharias.
    67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
    68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
    For He has visited and redeemed His people,
    69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
    In the house of His servant David,
    70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
    Who have been since the world began,
    71 That we should be saved from our enemies
    And from the hand of all who hate us,
    72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
    And to remember His holy covenant,
    73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
    74 To grant us that we,
    Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
    Might serve Him without fear,
    75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

    if you read Zech 14 it says in that day the LORD is king over all the earth. This kingdom does not come to earth until that point. Read this chapter on that day Jerusalem is being overrun, the women raped and then the LORD comes with his saints. This day it is dark in the day and bright at night. the mt of Olives splits in two and new valley and river are formed. The river flows year round and the nations which are left must now keep the feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain. Life continues after the LORD is king. The river flows year round.... This is the prophecy in LUKE of Israel being delivered from their enemies and from that point on they worship and serve the LORD without fear and in holiness all the days of their lives. This is as Joseph revealed himself to his brothers so Jesus will be revealed to Israel . All the plot lines of the story are tied together. The seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent. Israel is redeemed and receives the promise of Abraham to receive the land of Canaan. The LORD Jesus is king over all the earth and sits on the throne of David. This is a glorious conclusion and the 1st advent all the outcomes were understood. Jesus did save many Gentiles in His 1st advent and He even said Jerusalem would be trampled until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. In Revelation we are told Jerusalem again is trampled for 42 months, then what? Jesus comes and that is glorious news.
     
  9. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    As another said, the mission of evangelization was opened up to gentiles after the Resurrection (though Jesus made a few exceptions to His "lost sheep of Israel first" rule during His ministry). The Israelites- even if none of them decided to accept His message- were owed the message of salvation first because of the promises that God made with them. After killing the Messiah- the ultimate rejection of God- then it was right to preach to the gentiles.
     
  10. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I first understood that Jesus meant for the disciples to start with the Jews, but Jesus knew the time would come when He would have disciples reaching to the Gentiles.

    I think there are people who understand that Jesus knew the apostles would not be ready to handle the Gentiles who could have major evil which the apostles would not be ready to handle well. Even if this is true, they had major problems with hypocrisy of Jews and their own concern about who would be the greatest.

    So, possibly, Jesus understood how they had their own problems of sin, and needed to stay more at home while they found out how to get real correction, so then they could properly reach the Gentiles. It seems that even after they had the Holy Spirit, still they were capable of major discrimination problems > Galatians 2:11-13.

    So, this could be another thing; they might not have been ready to appreciate how God does love any and all Gentiles, and not only the Jews. They had possibly been brought up to hate Gentiles, and this would not have them ready to preach to them.
     
  11. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    As noted in post #5, salvation was always by faith. That was the proven and explicit point when Jesus provided it to the Syro-Phoenician woman.

    I suspect that Paul spent time reconciling that particular incident (and perhaps other incidents like the calling of Cornelius--which was the fulfillment of Isaiah 56) with the OT to determine how the mechanics of salvation works. What he concluded from that is what we read in Romans.
     
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  12. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    The Holy Spirit proved the salvageablity of gentiles with Cornelius. He left no shadow of a doubt in which bigots like Peter could take refuge.

    However, the Holy Spirit clearly had problem getting the Hebraic apostles out of Jerusalem in the early years.

    And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    Bigotry was the base driver in the martyrdom of Stephen and Saul's subsequent campaign against Hellenist Christians in Judea and beyond. But the immediate effect of Saul's ruthless campaign of persecution was to flush the Hellenist Christians out of Judea--which proved to be a good thing for the gospel. We see immediately that they began to evangelize those who had been considered outside the pale of Judaism.

    The Holy Spirit leap-frogged the Hebraic apostles, and for years He used Hellenist Christians to spread the gospel, even to the extent that it seemed the center of evangelist work was Antioch and it was Hellenists who first were called "Christians."
     
  13. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    God has always been the God of the Jews and Gentiles and he worked specifically with the Jews but he still worked with Gentiles since the beginning. The true Light has always lighted every man that comets into the world John 1:9.

    And

    Romans 2:14-16 “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another ; ) 16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”

    And

    Romans 3:29,30 “ Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.”

    And before the cross we read,

    Matthew 8:5-13 “And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, 6. And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. 7. And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. 8. The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9. For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10. When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 13. And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.”
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    It could also be that Jesus knew the Apostle Paul would be coming to them after Pentecost and the stoning of Stephen [when Saul/Paul is first seen in Acts 7:58].

    Acts 13:
    44 And on the coming sabbath, almost all the city was gathered together to hear the word of God,
    45 and the Jews having seen the multitudes, were filled with zeal, and did contradict the things spoken by Paul — contradicting and speaking blasphemies. [Revelation 16:9]
    46 And speaking boldly, Paul and Barnabas said,
    ‘To you it was necessary that first the word of God be spoken,
    and seeing ye do thrust it away, and do not judge yourselves worthy of the life age-during, behold! we do turn into the nations

    Romans 2:
    23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
    24 'For the name of the God is being blasphemed in the Nations because of ye' according as it has been written.'
    [Psalm 74:10 Revelation 16:8-9]

    Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

    Luke 16:24
    "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue;
    for I am anguished in this flame.' "
    [While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
    This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!]

    Revelation 16
    8 And the fourth Messenger pours out His Bowl upon the sun and was given Him to scorch the men in fire.
    9 And the men are scorched greatly and they blaspheme the Name of the God the One having the authority upon these blows and not the repent/reforum to give glory to Him. [John 10:33 Romans 2:24]

    .................................... saul paul cartoon.gif
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  15. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    First for Jews and then for others, as said in here:


    Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

    Mat. 28:19-20
     
  16. Uber Genius

    Uber Genius "Super Genius"

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    Gentiles were saved during the Old Covenant by becoming Jews. They studied, took oaths, got circumcised, kept the law, performed all the rituals but were only allowed in the outer court of the temple as I understand it. God has always made a provision for other non-Jews, have you read a book called "JOB?" God actually shows up face-to-face with Job. Enoch as well.
     
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  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Interesting. Isn't it the inner court of the Temple being measured in Revelation 11:2?

    It is actually shown being "cast out outside"............

    Luke 21:
    5 and of some saying concerning the Temple,

    Matthew 26:3
    Then were gathered together the Chief-priests and the Scribes, and the Elders of the people to the court/fold<833> of the Chief-priest who was called Caiaphas [Revelation 11:2]

    The Court in Revelation 11:2

    Revelation 11:
    1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
    2 and the Court/fold<833> outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations
    and the holy City they shall be trampling<3961> forty two months. [Luke 21:24]

    Luke 21:24
    “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.[Revelation 13:10]
    And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

    temple court.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    You answered the question in the sentence just before it.

    Mat 12:15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
    Mat 12:16 And charged them that they should not make him known:
    Mat 12:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
    Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
    Mat 12:19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
    Mat 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
    Mat 12:21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
     
  19. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Supporter

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    Luk 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
    Luk 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
    Luk 2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
    Luk 2:28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
    Luk 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
    Luk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
    Luk 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
    Luk 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
     
  20. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    I always point out Job.

    Notice that there is a conversation between God and Job that is unique in its content: God speaks to Job of His creation: The stars, the tides, the great animals of land and sea. God never has that conversation with other patriarchs. With them, God speaks of His deeds for them and His promises to them. With His Chosen People, God reveals His purposes and plans:

    When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.” -- Genesis 18

    But with Job, God speaks of His creation. I believe that's because Job represents people who have seen and recognized God through His creation:

    The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
    2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they reveal knowledge.
    3 They have no speech, they use no words;
    no sound is heard from them.
    4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.
    In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.
    5 It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,
    like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
    6 It rises at one end of the heavens
    and makes its circuit to the other;
    nothing is deprived of its warmth.
    -- Psalm 19

    And Job is not one of those Paul rails against:

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


    Rather, Job is one like those who worshiped the Unknown God, as Paul spoke directly to them:

    23 For as I was passing through and observing the objects of your worship, I even found an altar on which was inscribed:

    TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

    Therefore, what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you.

    24 The God who made the world and everything in it—He is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in shrines made by hands.

    25 Neither is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives everyone life and breath and all things.

    26 From one man He has made every nationality to live over the whole earth and has determined their appointed times and the boundaries of where they live.

    27 He did this so they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. -- Acts 17


    In the end, God still never tells Job of His plans and purposes, not even His plans for Job. Job must continue to worship in ignorance of God's plans and purposes.

    He is not a mere mortal like me that I might answer him, that we might confront each other in court.

    If only there were someone to mediate between us, someone to bring us together, someone to remove God's rod from me, so that his terror would frighten me no more. Then I would speak up without fear of him, but as it now stands with me, I cannot.
    Job 9

    Job does not know the name of Jesus, but he knows he needs Jesus.

    But God blesses Job, and thinks highly of Job, and I believe that God saves Job.
     
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