Did Jesus lust ???

[Andrewn]

Jesus was not tempted to fall down and worship Satan, although Satan tempted him to it

I expressed this a little differently in post #34, but I completely understand what you're saying.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't think this is theologically correct, Carl. The Lord Jesus had our nature. Whether you call it fallen, unredeemed, or fleshly, He had it all as the following verses show:

He had our humanity without sinful flesh and original sin. These came at the Cross.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

I expressed this a little differently in post #34, but I completely understand what you're saying.

I missed a big part of this thread, sometime I come in the middle or zoom in on one particular posts direction. I went back and read your post, you certainly did, and I agree with you.

 

[Jaxxi]

One among us insists that Jesus lusted and Paul lusted - what thinkest thou ???

Most modern translations refer to 'strong desire' in these cases.

Throughout the OT ad most of the NT the references to lust are describing a sinful condition.

I think some are trying to argue that lusting is in fact morally neutral.

Your comments appreciated.

Our generations have perverted the meaning of the word " lust". Haven't you ever lusted for the Word, or for more Biblical knowledge? I have. Of course our society has sexualized everything and lust can have a sexual element, but other elements as well. If you have ever felt like you were starving it could be said that you were lusting for food. No?

 

[Carl Emerson]

The issue that arises is the bible translators use classical english definitions.

In the main translations the word 'lust' refers to a sinful desire not just a strong morally neutral desire. Modern language modifies the meaning of words.

Take the word "Wicked"

In colloquial terms this now means awesome.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Our generations have perverted the meaning of the word " lust". Haven't you ever lusted for the Word, or for more Biblical knowledge? I have. Of course our society has sexualized everything and lust can have a sexual element, but other elements as well. If you have ever felt like you were starving it could be said that you were lusting for food. No?

There’s a correlation of desiring meeting God’s desires to accomplish great things, like Hannah in 1 Samuel 1. But it seems that even the urban dictionary hasn't caught up to your generation, (of Christians?) lust still means lust there too.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

The issue that arises is the bible translators use classical english definitions.

In the main translations the word 'lust' refers to a sinful desire not just a strong morally neutral desire. Modern language modifies the meaning of words.

Take the word "Wicked"

In colloquial terms this now means awesome.

What is a "main translation"?

Our awesome God is called terrible in the KJV while terrible in a secular dictionary means extremely bad it means awe, respect, honour and the like in the lexicon.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What is a "main translation"?

Our awesome God is called terrible in the KJV while terrible in a secular dictionary means extremely bad it means awe, respect, honour and the like in the lexicon.

Let me explain that the member who originally bought this up referred Luke 22:15

And He said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;


I have not found one translation on Bible Hub that renders the expression strongly or eagerly desire, as lust.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Let me explain that the member who originally bought this up referred Luke 22:15

And He said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;


I have not found one translation on Bible Hub that renders the expression strongly or eagerly desire, as lust.

Its just the word epithymeo

1. to turn upon a thing
   
   
2. to have a desire for, long for, to desire
   
   
3. to lust after, covet
   
   1. of those who seek things forbidden
      

Used this way AV — desire 8, covet 3, lust 3, lust after 1, fain 1

And one can scroll down and see that the same word is used in various verses in both a good and bad sense

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

I mean, even if you just replace the word with desireth in 1 Ti 3:1 you would click on that and still find it linked to the same definition above (regardless of the word).

 

[Carl Emerson]

So not a strong argument that Jesus lusted...

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

So not a strong argument that Jesus lusted...

Not in any bad sense, the same word is used for the same in a good sense, its not as problematic for me as it might be for you.

 

[Andrewn]

He had our humanity without sinful flesh and original sin. These came at the Cross.

This deserves a new thread:

Jesus and the 'sinful' Nature

 

[Ceallaigh]

One thing to keep in mind is that before he was born the Son of Man, He was with God and was God and all things were created by Him and through Him. And He probably remembered all of that.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Its just the word epithymeo

Rom 7:8

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. G1939 For without the law sin was dead.


Col 3:5

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, G1939 and covetousness, which is idolatry:


1Th 4:5

Not in the lust of concupiscence, G1939 even as the Gentiles which know not God:

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Rom 7:8

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. G1939 For without the law sin was dead.


Col 3:5

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, G1939 and covetousness, which is idolatry:


1Th 4:5

Not in the lust of concupiscence, G1939 even as the Gentiles which know not God:

Check our under the second desire in this verse here, its the same word epithymeo there.
Two different words used for desire

uke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire G1939 I have desired G1937 to eat this passover with you before I suffer.

G1939 is the one you posted to mine, is the same is epithymia as well as G1937

definition, desire, craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden, lust

Used positively in Phil 1:23 and also used the same words (as shown above) but using the word covet and lust as shown in Romans 7:7 in the negative " I had not known lust, G1939 except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. G1937

Like doubling down between the use of them (but same word)

and here positively in

Heb 6:11 "And we desire G1937 that every one of you do shew the same diligence"... although I would think axioo would have been better used in Heb 6:11 as it is used in Acts 28:22 where the same "we desire" is expressed there but that one is, " But we desire G515 to hear of thee" If you click on that one that seems like a better choice.

Back to desire

In the one desiring to be a Bishop 1 Ti 3:1 ... " he desireth G1937 a good work.

Is all coveting to be by default considered evil or is it just evil when you covet evil things? Does it said, "thou shalt not covet" PERIOD, or isnt it more often then not shown what specifically not to covet? Because 1 Cr 10:6 speaks of not lusting after evil things as they also lusted. G1937 The first mention of lust after evil is not the same word as the last which is also epithymia

Heres another word used in the OT

Hab 2:9 Woe to him that coveteth H1214 an evil H7451 covetousness H1215 to his house...

So there are tons of words, if desired mentioned twice it can be two different words also. But even the words the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and like wise the Spirit against the flesh, seems more like war between them until you come under the control of one.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Check our under the second desire in this verse here, its the same word epithymeo there.
Two different words used for desire

uke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire G1939 I have desired G1937 to eat this passover with you before I suffer.

G1939 is the one you posted to mine, is the same is epithymia as well as G1937

definition, desire, craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden, lust

Used positively in Phil 1:23 and also used the same words (as shown above) but using the word covet and lust as shown in Romans 7:7 in the negative " I had not known lust, G1939 except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. G1937

Like doubling down between the use of them (but same word)

and here positively in

Heb 6:11 "And we desire G1937 that every one of you do shew the same diligence"... although I would think axioo would have been better used in Heb 6:11 as it is used in Acts 28:22 where the same "we desire" is expressed there but that one is, " But we desire G515 to hear of thee" If you click on that one that seems like a better choice.

Back to desire

In the one desiring to be a Bishop 1 Ti 3:1 ... " he desireth G1937 a good work.

Is all coveting to be by default considered evil or is it just evil when you covet evil things? Does it said, "thou shalt not covet" PERIOD, or isnt it more often then not shown what specifically not to covet? Because 1 Cr 10:6 speaks of not lusting after evil things as they also lusted. G1937 The first mention of lust after evil is not the same word as the last which is also epithymia

Heres another word used in the OT

Hab 2:9 Woe to him that coveteth H1214 an evil H7451 covetousness H1215 to his house...

So there are tons of words, if desired mentioned twice it can be two different words also. But even the words the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and like wise the Spirit against the flesh, seems more like war between them until you come under the control of one.

Rom 7:8

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. G1939 For without the law sin was dead.


Col 3:5

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, G1939 and covetousness, which is idolatry:


1Th 4:5

Not in the lust of concupiscence, G1939 even as the Gentiles which know not God:

It might be that the verses need to be looked at separately from different wordage to get an idea of the context surrounding the interpretation. If someone has the time or inclination to do so.

Morally it would be what a desire is toward. Theologically the desire meeting God’s desire is ideal.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Both are used here in regards to being "with desire" desiring, and in respects to eating with them

Luke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire G1939 I have desired G1937 to eat this passover with you

As well as here with the poor beggar and his desiring to be fed with just crumbs

Luke 16:20 And desiring G1937 to be fed with the crumbs

G1971 is also another of the same word, such as here

1 Thes 3:6... ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly G1971 to see us...

2 Ti 1:4 Greatly desiring G1971 to see thee, being mindful of thy tears...

Its been fun combing through these things but I start to get a headache after too much of this sort of thing lol

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Both are used here in regards to being "with desire" desiring, and in respects to eating with them

Luke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire G1939 I have desired G1937 to eat this passover with you

As well as here with the poor beggar and his desiring to be fed with just crumbs

Luke 16:20 And desiring G1937 to be fed with the crumbs

G1971 is also another of the same word, such as here

1 Thes 3:6... ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly G1971 to see us...

2 Ti 1:4 Greatly desiring G1971 to see thee, being mindful of thy tears...

Its been fun combing through these things but I start to get a headache after too much of this sort of thing lol

Me too lol

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Okay, just one more

Shown as a good desire (epithymia) G1939

Phil 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire G1939 to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

And again here

1 Thes 2:17 But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire G1939

Have a dinner that needs my attention so I must depart for dinner (which is actually far better right now) lol

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks for your input folks...