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Featured Did Jesus Keep the Letter of the Law, the Spirit of the Law or both?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by corinth77777, Sep 1, 2018.

  1. Letter of the Law

    0 vote(s)
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  2. Spirit of Law

    46.7%
  3. Or both[ Letter and Spirit]

    53.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. gordonhooker

    gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

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    Sorry about that
     
  2. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Galatians 5:18
    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law (ten commandments).

    Galatians 5:22-23
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

    The law and the spirit are in direct conflict with one another. One forgives and the other condemns.
     
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  3. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Don't do that again.
     
  4. gordonhooker

    gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

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    Matt. 22:36-40
    36 Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37 He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

    Why? Because God is Love.
     
  5. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I didn't boil down my previous responses, because the original question leads to an answer that is not relevant to our walk with the Lord. It is better to give your heart to the Lord than to understand the answer to the question.

    But I can boil it down, but that doesn't mean it is comprehensible (read my previous posts for something along those lines). Jesus always kept the Spirit of the Law. Jesus always kept the letter of the Mosaic Law according to his (perfect) spiritual understanding. He did not always keep the Mosaic Law according to Pharisaical understanding.

    Furthermore, what Jesus did doesn't tell us what we should do. Jesus lived 2000 years ago in a culture that doesn't exist anymore. His purpose and mission field are not ours. The best way to state what we should do in the context of the question is: Keep the Spirit of the Law, not the letter of the Law—which no one can do without being in Christ and being led by the Spirit.

    For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. (Romans 8:13-14, 1984 NIV)
     
  6. corinth77777

    corinth77777 learner

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    When you say, "keep the Spirit of the law"
    What do you mean by that? How do you display that in your present walk?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  7. mathinspiration

    mathinspiration Active Member

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    Read Matthew. He came to fulfill the law.
     
  8. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    cool I read the entire thread up to some point and saw where it diverged into the argument I saw. My second post was answering SDA guys who too it in the direction I mistakenly thought was yours. You know they are not the 10 suggestions... lol
     
  9. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I didn't say that.
     
  10. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    The Letter of the Law is man's attempt to understand the Spirit of the Law.

    For the carnal Man, they are two different things. He thinks that he understands the first, but is completely clueless about the second.

    To God, they are one and the same. Jesus abiding by the latter, satisfied the former, because He knows the true intent of the Letter. And we, who have the Holy Spirit, likewise satisfy the (intended) Letter when we keep/obey the Spirit (as He reveals it).

    This can be seen when He rebuked the Pharisees about their take on the Sabbath [Mark 2:23-27]. (The Sabbath is still important, just not as the Pharisees understood it.)

    It can also be seen in His treatment of hand-washing [Matthew 15:1-10] and, by extension, Kosher rules. Since He only challenged it once, He probably practiced them the rest of the time (for the right reasons). Note that Peter was still abiding by them when God prompted him to visit Cornelius [Acts of the Apostles 10].
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  11. corinth77777

    corinth77777 learner

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    Sorry, "Spirit of the law" is what I meant
     
  12. marineimaging

    marineimaging Texas Baptist with attitude

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    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    Therein Jesus explains that both the breakers of the law and the teachers to break the law shall be called the least and those who teach the law shall be great..., In HEAVEN. Not breakers of it bound for hell, but in Heaven. Then, in v20 Jesus says; "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

    These statements by Jesus are relevant to those who teach and write the teachings so this is the first concern, but here even that those who mislead based on a false premise are still in Heaven and yet they have sinned and sinned about the law.

    Secondly, in the Beatitudes we have;
    7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

    9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

    10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    And in these we see that we are blessed for these behaviors. We know we are going to see Heaven if we do these things, right? God is not going to lie nor take them away from us. So if we strive to be pure in heart and our desires are to please God, yet we admit that our flesh is weak from birth, then aren't we bound for heaven.

    But he who gives in to temptation and sin knowing the law is bound for hell for it is the law. But if obeying the law is all that matters then what about what Jesus means to us? In the New Testament teachings we know that the purpose of the Mosaic Law was to let the world know what God considered sin. God frees man so that the desire to live in the spirit of knowing the difference and that when we chose to be righteous we choose God. The spirit in us, even though our flesh is weak, that is the deciding factor. The letter of the law is fulfilled by living in the Spirit of salvation through Jesus Christ.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  13. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Who is the spirit who may ask one to give all he has to the poor and ask someone else to manage ten cities? Who is it who gives commands by prayer day and night to those who are attentive?

    Was there ever a book that was without error from beginning to end? Will an error on one page not corrupt a righteous proverb on another page?

    There are sins of commission and sins of omission. Sometimes it is not what one did that was wrong, but the righteousness one did not do that hurt.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did Jesus fulfill the Ten Commandments on the Cross. Or did he fulfill the Two Great Commandments on the Cross?

    If he fulfilled the Ten only, he would not steal a soldier's spear. He would not covet the High Priest's sandals. He would not lie about any in the crowd to have them arrested for something they did not do. Etc., etc.

    But if he fulfilled the Two Great Commandments he would have Loved God with all his mind, body, soul, and strength. And this he did. He gave his body to the worst death imaginable in love for God. He gave his entire mind and soul in love for God when he said "thy will be done". And he gave his last ounce of strength as they wrenched his life out of him. And he loved his enemies as his own self when he asked God to forgive them for killing him.

    Which Law do you think he fulfilled on the cross? I think he fulfilled the Ten by fulfilling the Two.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
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  15. Valetic

    Valetic Addicted to CF Supporter

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    From my understanding of scripture, Jesus obeyed the law fully both in spirit and in body. However, I find it fascinating to wonder whether or not Jesus performed any animal sacrifices when He Himself was the perfect lamb that would be sacrificed near the end of His physical ministry. I would guess not because He was without sin, but still that just gives me the entire scope of how much He believed in the Old Testament when I wonder this.
     
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  16. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    The intention (spirit) of the Law was to keep the Israelites as a homogenous, unified society, ultimately for the purpose of ensuring the covenant and promises to Abraham were fulfilled, that Christ and the Church would come from Israel.

    Since Jesus gave the Law, how else could he do any other than fulfil its purpose?

    Judge Dredd said, "I am the Law".
     
  17. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    A little difficult to choose between the Spirit of the Law or both. Jesus appears to break the letter of the Law by healing on the Sabbath but the first two commandments call for us to love God and our fellow man, so, all things must be measured by how what we do is obedient to these.
     
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  18. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Was man made for the Law (sabbath) or the Law made for man?

    Jesus was really sticking two propositions to the Pharisees in his questions.

    Who made the Law?
    Who is it intended for?

    I.E. God made the law for disobedient men

    On account of being 1) God, 2) obedient to God
    Jesus was above the law
     
  19. expos4ever

    expos4ever Left This Site

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    Jesus did not keep the letter of the Law. For one, He declared that no food defiles.

    The larger point was that He “broke” the Law as a way to show that the Old Covenant was coming to an end.
     
  20. expos4ever

    expos4ever Left This Site

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    Further to the matter of Jesus and the purity laws from the Law of Moses (often called the "kosher" laws): Imagine this scenario: you go to your doctor, concerned that you may have acquired Tennessee Yodeling Sickness (a fictitious disorder for the sake of the argument) as a result of eating without washing your hands. Your doctor gently chides you for believing this and then goes on to say and then says "nothing you take into your body can give you Tennessee Yodeling Sickness".

    Now imagine that you leave the doctor`s office, believing that the doctor believes that, in fact, some things you eat can give you Tennessee Yodeling Sickness, reasoning that since the discussion started with a discussion of handwashing, it could not have evolved to a different, but related matter: whether anything that you eat could give you Tennessee Yodeling Sickness.

    You would, to be blunt, be whacked in the head.

    To me, this is exactly how people reason when they try to argue that this statement from Jesus:

    Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them

    ....does not challenge the Law of Moses (which, of course, declares that some foods indeed defile you) just because the entire discussion started with a dispute over handwashing.
     
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