The Times

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2017
2,581
805
Australia
✟90,081.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
It seems that Yahweh God of the Old Testament according to Mormons is a Created God, who earned Godhood status and according to Jospeh Smith, the Father of Jesus has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's. Therefore according to Mormon teachings teachings, both the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost were created. The exception is that the Holy Ghost is not a person as per say like the Father and the Son, but is a life or energy force eminating from the Father and the Son, in the form of a personage. That is why Jospeh Smith says.....

The Holy Ghost us a personage of the Father and Son and therefore a person CANNOT have the personage of the Holy Ghost in his heart.

The above implies, that the Holy Ghost is impersonal to persons. This is totally contrary to scripture.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JoeP222w

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2015
3,358
1,748
55
✟77,175.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Dear Brothers and Sisters... We Christians believe in One true Living God. I am posting this thread to improve our knowledge in bible. Every muslims, Jehovah witness community, and other people who says that Jesus should not be worshipped, or some saying that He is only son of God, but not that God Himself or says that He should not be claimed as a son for God, but just a prophet. Anyway they just conclude to one question asking: Did Jesus himself say, "I am God and worship me"?.

I have answers for their ignorance. But, kindly share your opinions. We need to be very serious about this. Whether individually you are strong or not, there are many innocent christians getting converted to the wrong paths, since many believers as christians not properly answering to that exact question. We need to battle the dark forces through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus himself say: "I am God and worship me?".

Jesus did not refuse worship and He certainly claimed to be God in many places. John 1:1, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 20:28 et. al.

To demand that the Bible must have the exact quote "I am God and worship me" to be in the Bible to prove that Jesus is God is facile, simplistic and coming from one who really is not in search of the truth.
 
Upvote 0

gadar perets

Messianic Hebrew
May 11, 2016
4,252
1,042
70
NC
Visit site
✟130,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Matthew 4:11
"Then the devil left him, and behold, angels(ἄγγελος - aggelos) came and served him".

Revelation 22:8
Now I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. When I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel(ἄγγελος - aggelos) who had shown me these things.

In both these verses it says only about created Angels (ἄγγελος - aggelos), but you are saying difference of resurrected messenger and the created angel.
In what way are angels our "fellow bondservants"?
 
Upvote 0

gadar perets

Messianic Hebrew
May 11, 2016
4,252
1,042
70
NC
Visit site
✟130,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Revelation 19:13
He(Lord Jesus Christ) is clothed in a garment sprinkled with blood. His name is called “The Word of God.”
note: Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of God the Father.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of only begotten Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.
note: The Word of God, who is only begotten Son of God took flesh and came down as Son of Man. So, The Word of God as only begotten Son of God to the Son of Man(likeness of flesh and blood).

Isaiah 45:23
I(YHWH) have sworn by myself. The word(Jesus Christ) has gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and will not be revoked, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath.

Philippians 2:10
"that at the name of Jesus(The Word of God) every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth.

John 17:11-12
Jesus said: "Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name(the name: Jesus), which you have given me.........
"......When I was with them, I used to watch over them on account of your own name(the name: Jesus), which you have given me.."
note: That powerful name of God is Jesus, which was given to the Son of Man, and that Son of Man is the Lord and the Christ.

Revelation 21:22
" I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God, the Almighty, and the Lamb, are its temple."
note: Jesus said: " I and the Father are One". In the new Jerusalem city there is only one temple. That one temple is the Holy Father and His only begotten Son which Lord Jesus Christ was meaning in the gospel of John.

Revelation 21:23
"The city has no need for the sun or moon to shine, for the very glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb."
note: Light comes from the lamp. This verse says that the Glory of the Holy Father which dwells completely in His only begotten Son illumines the temple, where Christ is the lamp of the temple.

That's the reason Lord Jesus Christ will be called the great "Eternal Father" as Isaiah prophesied.

Isaiah 9:6
"For a child is born to us. A son is given to us; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."
note: One temple, from One body, from one throne the The Holy Father, and His only begotten Son will rule the new heaven and new earth. That only begotten Son of God will be called Eternal Father as no one can see the Holy father separately as He completely dwells in His Christ, the Son of God(who came down this earth as Son of Man).

Revelation 22:3-5
3 "The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will serve him.

4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

5 There will be no night, and they need no lamp light or sun light; for the Lord God will illuminate them. They will reign forever and ever.

note: Some of these verse from the final chapter of Revelation shows us some important words. These important words are "Throne"; "His face"; "His name". These verses does not say "thrones" or "two thrones", also not saying "their face" and "their name". Everything these verses concludes is One throne, One person's face and name from that one throne.

The Holy Father, who is dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen, nor can see(1 Timothy 6:16) completely dwells in His Christ and will rule us forever and ever.

Daniel 7:13-14

13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, there came with the clouds of the sky one like a Son of Man, and he came even to the ancient of days(YHWH), and they brought him near before him.

14 Dominion was given him, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which will not pass away, and his kingdom that which will not be destroyed.


Hail to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, let all knees shall bow to Him and worship Him.

The body of Lord Jesus Christ is the Tabernacle of YHWH.

Colossians 1:19
"For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in him".

Colossians 2:9
"For in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily,".

When I go to Heaven I will see that bodily form with the complete glory of God the Father and call Him as Abba Father. I can see Holy Father only in my Lord Jesus Christ.
I will not reply to Scripture bombing. Feel free to post a few verses at a time.
 
Upvote 0

gadar perets

Messianic Hebrew
May 11, 2016
4,252
1,042
70
NC
Visit site
✟130,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Jesus is the God of the OT. Jesus is God the Son, but Jesus is not God the Father. The Trinity says that They are separate and distinct Persons. LDS say, They are separate and distinct Individuals.
Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
The God of the OT is YHWH (Yeshua's Father).

There is no such phrase as "God the Son" in Scripture.
 
Upvote 0

gadar perets

Messianic Hebrew
May 11, 2016
4,252
1,042
70
NC
Visit site
✟130,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
You stated.....

Did Jesus himself say: "I am God and worship me?".

As a short reply to your statement above, Jesus not only made repeated statement like that, but he also required people's actions to abide and to fulfil that statement. Yet Jesus required people to not only consider him as the God of the Old Testament and to also worship him, yet he also wanted it be done in a sincere manner in love and not fear, though he be the King of kings.

It is one thing to make a claim of deity and request worship, but he also required people to act upon it, in sincerity and love.
Mere words with no Scriptural backing.
 
Upvote 0

gadar perets

Messianic Hebrew
May 11, 2016
4,252
1,042
70
NC
Visit site
✟130,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The Jews within their context of culture and in fear never directly used the word God, in case that they used his name in vain and this would be against the commandments given to Moses. So Jesus when speaking to the Jewish Pharisees (priests) repeatedly stated that it is He, which he directly inferred to the I Am, who is the God of Abraham.
See post #85
 
Upvote 0

The Times

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2017
2,581
805
Australia
✟90,081.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
See post #85

The Jews wanted to stone him because they knew that he was making himself to be God himself. I don't see the relevance of old testament scriptures as compared to that of the words spoken by Jesus himself and the events written in the new testament. Thanks anyway!
 
Upvote 0

Anand Prabhu Antony

Active Member
Jan 8, 2016
171
23
Chennai, India
✟20,316.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't know wether I believe in the word Trinity...but I believe in the Holy Father, His only begotten Son(Messiah) and the Holy Spirit. I believe these scriptures for my faith in FSHS.


Revelation 19:13
He(Lord Jesus Christ) is clothed in a garment sprinkled with blood. His name is called “The Word of God.”
note: Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of God the Father.

Isaiah 45:23
I(YHWH) have sworn by myself. The word(Jesus Christ) has gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and will not be revoked, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath.
note: YHWH sending His Word, and that Word is subject to the Father, because it's His Word.

Philippians 2:10
"that at the name of Jesus(The Word of God) every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of only begotten Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.
note: We know that the Word of YHWH became flesh and was called Son of Man. The Word of God=Son of God > Son of Man.

John 17:11-12
Jesus said: "Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name(the name: Jesus), which you have given me.........
"......When I was with them, I used to watch over them on account of your own name(the name: Jesus), which you have given me.."
note: The name Jesus belongs YHWH as these above scriptures says, and it was given to the Son of Man, and that Son of Man is the Lord and the Messiah.

Revelation 21:22
" I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God, the Almighty, and the Lamb, are its temple."
note: Jesus said: " I and the Father are One". In the new Jerusalem city there is only one temple. That one temple is the Holy Father and His only begotten Son which Lord Jesus Christ was meaning in the gospel of John.

Revelation 21:23
"The city has no need for the sun or moon to shine, for the very glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb."
note: Light comes from the lamp. This verse says that the Glory of the Holy Father which dwells completely in His only begotten Son illumines the temple, where Christ is the lamp of the temple.

That's the reason Lord Jesus Christ will be called the great "Eternal Father" as Isaiah prophesied.

Isaiah 9:6
"For a child is born to us. A son is given to us; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."
note: One temple, from One body, from one throne the The Holy Father, and His only begotten Son will rule the new heaven and new earth. That only begotten Son of God will be called Eternal Father as no one can see the Holy father separately as He completely dwells in His Christ, the Son of God(who came down this earth as Son of Man).

Revelation 22:3-5
3 "The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will serve him.

4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

5 There will be no night, and they need no lamp light or sun light; for the Lord God will illuminate them. They will reign forever and ever.

note: Some of these verse from the final chapter of Revelation shows us some important words. These important words are "Throne"; "His face"; "His name". These verses does not say "thrones" or "two thrones", also not saying "their face" and "their name". Everything these verses concludes is One throne, One person's face and name from that one throne.

The Holy Father, who is dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen, nor can see(1 Timothy 6:16) completely dwells in His Christ and will rule us forever and ever.

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, there came with the clouds of the sky one like a Son of Man, and he came even to the ancient of days(YHWH), and they brought him near before him.
14 Dominion was given him, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which will not pass away, and his kingdom that which will not be destroyed.

Hail to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, let all knees shall bow to Him and worship Him.

The body of Lord Jesus Christ is the Tabernacle of YHWH.

Colossians 1:19
"For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in him".

Colossians 2:9
"For in him all the fullness of the Deity dwells bodily,".

When I go to Heaven I will see that bodily form with the complete glory of God the Father and call Him as Abba Father. I can see Holy Father only in my Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

gadar perets

Messianic Hebrew
May 11, 2016
4,252
1,042
70
NC
Visit site
✟130,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The Jews wanted to stone him because they knew that he was making himself to be God himself. I don't see the relevance of old testament scriptures as compared to that of the words spoken by Jesus himself and the events written in the new testament. Thanks anyway!
Which stoning event are you referring to?
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Heavenly Mother is a Gnostic belief that one of the seven Aeons called Sophia bore a heavenly child Yahweh and he earned God status, then Yahweh created a Godman child Jesus, against the wishes of the other Aeons. The Yahweh of the Old Testament according to Gnosticism is portrayed as a bad guy.

I suppose according Mormon teachings of Heavenly Mother or the Mother in Heaven as the mother of human spirits and the wife of God the Father, Yahweh, would explain why in the Old Testament there were Jews making images of her on cakes, in commemoration of her and it explains why the RCC use the same Queen of Heaven and Mother title alongside Sophia.

This means, that both the Mormons and the RCC unwittingly pay homage to Sophia Queen of Heaven. RCC may have a different doctrinal spin on this compared to Mormons, yet both use the same terms found in Gnostic Teachings.

In Jeremiah 7:18: The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven.


Read all about it in the link below......

Blood, Gender and Power in Christianity and Judaism
We acknowledge that there is a Heavenly Mother, not a queen of heaven, but beyond that, we have not enough information to answer questions about her. It just has not been revealed any more than she exists.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Adzinfi

Active Member
Sep 27, 2017
59
16
43
Suva
✟1,161.00
Country
Fiji
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I don't know what you mean by "worship," and I suspect that whatever you and everyone else means by "worship" means nothing to Jesus. It's essentially an irrelevant question.

"The multitude of your sacrifices-- what are they to me?" says the LORD. "I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. -- Isaiah 1

For when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in obedience to all I command you, that it may go well with you. -- Jeremiah 7

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.-- Hosea 6

You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.-- Psalm 51

But Samuel replied: "Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams. --1 Samuel 15

If you love me, keep my commands. -- John 14

My point here is not to stop for a moment with that question, and don't let anyone else stop you with it. That is a diversion, a deflection from the gospel. Cornelius didn't have that worked out before he accepted Jesus.

The question is whether the person who hears the gospel accepts it, accepts Jesus as his Lord and is willing to obey Jesus. The "worship" procedures are irrelevant if the obedience is not there. If the obedience is there, the rest will come in due time. If the obedience is not there, the worship stuff is irrelevant.
Wrong Mr r d Kirk.
If the question of who Jesus is based upon who he claimed to be is not addressed then any one can worship any thing with the name of JESUS tagged on .
This is proven by the fact that the first person to agree with your post with a hearty Amen ..is a mormon.who absolutely do not worship the JESUS of the Bible. Because the Jesus of Mormonism has a father who was once a man and not the one true living eternal God.

So the point of WHOM JESUS of the Bible is MUST be addressed and made clear.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
The God of the OT is YHWH (Yeshua's Father).

There is no such phrase as "God the Son" in Scripture.
It is true that YHWH was the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of Israel, who appeared to Moses in the burning bush, who guided Israel out of Egypt, etc., etc., etc.

There was another God in front of YHWH, and that God is the only God mentioned in the 1st chapter of Genesis, and his name is Elohim. YHWH was not introduced until the 2nd chapter of Genesis, as Yahweh Elohim. It is our understanding that YHWH is the Son of Elohim, and Elohim gave all power and authority to His Son YHWH to create the earth and be the God of this earth, hence YHWH is the God of Abraham etc.

It is this God of creation and God of Abraham...Moses etc. that was incarnated and named Jesus Christ. Jesus was God before he was born of a 'virgin' in his earthly ministry, but he was not God/Elohim, he was God/Yahweh Elohim.

God/Elohim and God/Yahweh Elohim and the HS are in a Godhead and are so united in Their purpose, to bring salvation to all men, it is as if They are 1 God
All 3 in the Godhead are equal in power and authority, but there is a hierarchy in the Godhead. God the Father/Elohim first, then God the Son/Yahweh Elohim second, then the God the HS.

Our understanding does fit nicely with the scriptures.
 
Upvote 0

The Times

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2017
2,581
805
Australia
✟90,081.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
I meant your post provided no Scripture to back what you said.

That doesn't explain how and why you think why you think. You need to further elaborate by making a counter argument to refute my arguments, point by point.

Do you have a solid argument for your thinking?
 
Upvote 0

The Times

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2017
2,581
805
Australia
✟90,081.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Which stoning event are you referring to?

The same crowd ie Pharisees who had gathered against him the first time, had brought their fellow Pharisees to stone Jesus, after coming to an understanding of what Jesus was saying about himself. Both events are a follow on and are interconnected.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Times

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2017
2,581
805
Australia
✟90,081.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
We acknowledge that there is a Heavenly Mother, not a queen of heaven, but beyond that, we have not enough information to answer questions about her. It just has not been revealed any more than she exists.

Biblically speaking, there is no doctrine of Mother. So where do LDS get it from?
 
Upvote 0