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Did Jesus have the Free Will (freedom of choice)?

Discussion in 'Questions by Non-Christians (Archived)' started by faith_in_consciousness, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. faith_in_consciousness

    faith_in_consciousness Newbie

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    Me and a friend of mine were discussing this for a while and i though I should get a few more educated opinions...

    The gist of the argument is that:

    Did Jesus have the freedom on choice? I say yes in that he was tempted by the devil but chose to reject him and accept his fate. Jesus was pure goodness (free from sin and could not as the son of god act in sin) but still retained free will.

    THE PROBLEM!
    From how I understand it, God created evil so that humans would have freedom of choice. They could choose to do good or evil and therefore were above animals, rocks, trees and justified having a soul etc, and the whole made in god's image thing...

    Now, the issue I have is that if god could create Jesus, with a soul and free will, then why didn't he create humans in that way as well? Why not create humans as his children like Jesus?

    ps. I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum, i wasn't sure, I'll repost it if you tell me which one to post it to :)
     
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  2. Emmy

    Emmy Senior Veteran

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    Salvation Army
    Dear faith in consciousness. If I told you that Jesus is God-Son, part of the Holy Trinity, and that He died for us, that we might live, you would be even more confused. Try and read the Gospel of St. John, then the other Gospels: Matthew, Mark and Luke. You will find that Jesus came to save us out of Love, and that we have free will to choose to follow Him back to God, or free will to refuse and go our own way. Whatever we will decide, will have consequences. It is very importent to know the truth, then decide. I say this humbly and kindly, faith in consciousness. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.
     
  3. tapero

    tapero Legend Supporter

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    Hi,

    God did not create evil. He created beings (angels and humans) with the capacity to choose to do good or evil. Humans chose either to do good things or evil things; whatever is in their heart to do; and of course still do so today. All sin.

    Jesus is God, was not created. Jesus always existed. Only God (Jesus) is sinless.

    That we have the free will to love God (Jesus) is perhaps why God created us the way He did. Not forcing anyone to love Him, letting each person make the choice.

    So God has always existed, but created humans and angels with free will. Without free will we would not be free to reject God or have faith/trust in God.

    Also, Jesus yes did have free will and one place it is spoken of is where He goes to be crucified. It talks about Him laying down His life of His own free will. Not my will but yours be done, to the Father He says.

    And yes, I agree with your example of the tempting of Jesus where again we see His free will to choose good and right and reject evil.

    blessings,
    tapero
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
  4. kl_lorent

    kl_lorent Seeker of Truth

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    I posted just a portion of this article I found at http://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-create-evil.html

    Question: "Did God create evil?"

    Answer:
    At first it might seem that if God created all things then evil must have been created by God. However, there is an assumption here that needs to be cleared up. Evil is not a "thing" - like a rock or electricity. You can't have a jar of evil! Rather, evil is something that occurs, like running. Evil has no existence of its own - it is really a lack in a good thing. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole - but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all that existed was good. One of the good things that God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or non-good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a "thing" that required God to create it.

    Perhaps a further illustration will help. If I were to ask the average person "does cold exist?" - his/her answer would likely be yes. However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist. Darkness is the absence of light. Similarly, evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

    Once again, the rest of this article is at http://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-create-evil.html
     
  5. Lion-Of-Zion

    Lion-Of-Zion Isaiah 54:17

    118
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    Well said KL Lorent!! Im going to Wal Mart to pick up a jar of evil!!

    "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
    "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death -- that is, the devil."

    I think he knew it was comming and chose to save the world!!
     
  6. TwilightSol

    TwilightSol Member

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    My say may not mean much and it might not be what others think. God knew everthing. If God did not create evil, would there be a tree of the knowledge of good and evil? In my thought process, God created evil to test the faith of his followers. What good is it if we believe but are not strong in our reasons or are never pushed? God gave us free will because he wants to watch many of us grow in the faith and not simply know about it. And if not for evil deeds and actions who would there be to save but those who do not yet know? If you know, Jesus was friend to sinners not to those who were already believers, but that doesn't mean he stops caring for you after you recieve him. You can see this whenever his desiples strayed, he pointed them in the right direction. He wants us believers, followers to find our way ourselves, and just like a mother hen he's never too far away that we can't call for him.
    I hope I've at least helped a little, and I'm sorry if I spelled anything wrong. Please feel free to ask questions, God would love to answer. :wave:
     
  7. Adoniram

    Adoniram Senior Member

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    Just a couple of things to point out here-

    First, God did not "create" Jesus. Jesus is God and has always existed. In the following passages we see that Jesus is "the Word," and "the Word" became flesh, dwelling among us in the personage of Jesus Christ.

    From John 1
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
    10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
    16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


    Second, Jesus did indeed have free will. If he had chosen to do so, he could have abandoned the purpose for which he came to this world, that is, to die and provide the means of salvation for all mankind. In the following passage we see that this was weighing heavy on his mind as the hour of his death approached.

    Mark 14:35-36
    He went a little farther, and fell on the ground, and prayed that if it were possible, the hour might pass from Him. 36 And He said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will.”

    Third, God created humans in His image. We have intelligence, a soul, a spirit, the abilities to love and to choose between right and wrong (free will). We also feel deep emotional pain (grief) at times, just as God does when we make the wrong choices.

    Gen. 1
    26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

    The only difference between Jesus and the rest of mankind is that Jesus made the right choices 100% of the time. That we do not is the reason that Jesus made the choice to die for us. He showed us what it is to live in total accordance with God's will, and how we benefit by doing so.
     
  8. floss76

    floss76 New Member

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    Kl lorent.. id just like to say how fantastic your definition of "evil" is if only the bible could be made that simple!
     
  9. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

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    That's exactly what God did. We messed it up.

    Jesus, faced with the same temptations, didn't mess it up.
     
  10. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    He did. But they chose to go astray. ^_^
     
  11. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    I assume you have never had a polo mint? :p
     
  12. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

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    A nice way of expressing the classic Christian response. Clearer perhaps than this:

    To put it another way, an evil person like Hitler doesn't have something added, but something missing.
     
  13. PastorJim

    PastorJim Well-Known Member

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    Baptist
    First of all, God did not create Jesus. Jesus is God.

    Jesus is the second person of the Trinity who chose to step into an Earthly incarnation by being born as a result of the Holy Spirit causing Mary to become pregnant through miraculous and non-physical means.

    In that sense, while there was no physical contact, Jesus took on a role submitting Himself to the Father and is the Son of God (just to clarify, even though the the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each equally God, when we say "God", typically, we mean the Father).

    Now, skip over to Romans 5, which explains that a sin nature is the curse of Adam and is passed down through the generations to each person through their Earthly fathers' seed.

    It is because Jesus didn't have an Earthly father that He does not have a sin nature, not because God "created" Him that way.
     
  14. Lyle

    Lyle I am last minute stuff

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    Read Hebrews; it gives examples over and over about the things that Christ did being His own choices.

    Hebrews 12:2 (example) "Looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross..."

    Now here is the catch 22... God did not create evil. Everything evil is the opposite of what is good. God gave a command and it was broken. Darkness comes when there is no light. Darkness only exists where there is no light. It is not evident of itself and cannot create itself. It is simply not, if you follow me. The word for evil is perhaps over rated, but it not an anti-code God programed into everything. Where there is a command, liberty found room to fall in the gaps, those gaps are evil or sin.

    Now, we have a situation where everyone has fallen into these gaps. People are born into sin and there is no way to get back out of these 'cracks' by their own power. They have become flawed. God (the Son) chose to take on a human life and live as a human to pay for the sins. The freedom from sin comes only to the fact that all the punishment that I would have for my sin, Christ absorbed. He stood between me and the righteous hand of God.

    Hebrews is a great book for all your questions. Just go at it with a pen and paper to jot notes :)
     
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