Did Jesus have faith? (Note: I have an answer, but I am curious as to what others have to say).

Did Jesus have faith?

  • I don’t know.

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  • Other (Please explain).

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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The Lord refers to Himself both as the Son of God and Son of man. You dismiss the notion
that He acted in faith because He is the Son of God. What about as Son of man?
This is not about your personal preferences. It is about Who He Was and Is and
Will be. Does He come again as Son of God, Son of man, or both?

I believe the titles of the names of Jesus are not referring to how the Living Word flip flopped from being one way or another in regards to His having power or ability of His own as the second person of the Trinity. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
 
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Mr. M

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I get the impression that you don’t believe Jesus had power of His own as the second person of the Trinity during His earthly ministry.
No, I said that He did not rely on that, but humbled himself as the Son of man.
Philippians 2:
5
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming
in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient
to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

He is teaching a walk by faith, as the Son of man, to be led by the Spirit.
We are taught to be led by the Spirit. To walk by faith. To walk as He walked.
As the Son of man.
 
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A revelation from the Father was possible before the Cross. Is that really a miracle of the Son?

You misunderstood me, friend. Nowhere did I say that this was a miracle of the Son. You asked before if the Father did miracles, too. This to me would be a miracle by the Father for Peter.

You said:
Nathaniel confessed Christ long before Peter.
John 1:
49
Nathanael answered and said to Him, Rabbi, You are the Son of God!
You are the King of Israel!
50 Jesus answered and said to him, Because I said to you, I saw you under the fig tree,
do you believe? You will see greater things than these.
51 And He said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open,
and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.

If Jesus only worked from a place of deity as the Son of God, what is the significance to
saying He is the Son of man? Why would the Son of God need angels to ascend and
descend upon Him? He did not, the scriptures say that He was acting as the Son of man.
I already provided two scriptures that state clearly that He was led by the Spirit. We are
taught that we are to be led by the Spirit to overcome the sinful nature. That is what He
came to teach us, how to walk in the Spirit as son of man.

I said before that Jesus operated by miracles of God the Father, and miracles of the Holy Spirit. This does not mean Jesus did not have power of His own and He did not use it, as well.

Colossians 2:9
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

The Godhead is the Trinity.

John 5:21
“For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.”

The word “quickeneth” (quickens) is defined as: “make alive.”

Jesus said this in reply to the Jews in healing a man’s legs at the pool of Bethesda on the Sabbath. So Jesus made alive this man’s legs when they were dead. Jesus is taking the credit here because He said the Son of man quickeneth (quickens or makes alive) in whom He will.

So this one point in Scripture that proves that Christ had deity or super natural power of His own during His earthly ministry.

Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today. This clearly is an establishment of Christ’s own power because Jesus is saying He is among believers in His spirit (as the Word) as the second person of the Triune God. This is clearly deity or the power of God at work here. So no. Jesus was not stripped of His powers like Superman was stripped of His powers in Superman 2: The movie (Starring Christopher Reeve).

Jesus is God.
This is just not in name only…. But in power.
(Power that He had in being the second person of the Trinity).
 
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No, I said that He did not rely on that, but humbled himself as the Son of man.
Philippians 2:
5
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming
in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient
to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

He is teaching a walk by faith, as the Son of man, to be led by the Spirit.
We are taught to be led by the Spirit. To walk by faith. To walk as He walked.
As the Son of man.

No. Even if Jesus did have faith (Which He didn’t because He is God), it would not be the same kind of faith as our faith. Our faith exists so that we can access God’s saving grace. Jesus did not need grace. Jesus was full of grace and truth. Jesus is eternal life. He is the source of it. So that is why we cannot follow His faith (even if he did have faith hypothetically speaking) because our faith is dealing with eternal life or salvation. Jesus needs no salvation. Jesus is salvation.
 
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Mr. M

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I believe the titles of the names of Jesus are not referring to how the Living Word flip flopped from being one way or another in regards to His having power or ability of His own as the second person of the Trinity.
So, what do you believe the significance is of His referring to Himself as the Son of man?
How would that affect His deity? Again, we are way past establishing His position in the
Godhead. You have not come close to showing that His miracles were an expression of
that deity. If He went to the cross as deity, then how is He fulfilling a covenant of man?
John 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will
know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me,
I speak these things.
You would have us believe that this statement implies that He was fully briefed in heaven
and by His own omniscience, what to expect on earth. He could know the horror of
crucifixion on our behalf only as the Son of man. Otherwise, people would say, and have said,
yeah, He suffered on the cross for us, but it wasn't the same because He is God. Actually,
it was much worse, knowing He could command 12 legions of angels. Instead:"for the joy that
was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand
of the throne of God." KJV. As Son of God, AND Son of man.
 
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You misunderstood me, friend. Nowhere did I say that this was a miracle of the Son. You asked before if the Father did miracles, too. This to me would be a miracle by the Father for Peter.
I caught that and fixed it already. You can call it a miracle if you want. I ask again, when
did the miracles of Messiah ever get separated into Father miracles, Son miracles, and Holy
Spirit miracles? Are they not all one? And yet, we have this Son of man, walking in the Spirit
doing exactly what we are commanded to do. Obey.
 
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No. Even if Jesus did have faith (Which He didn’t because He is God), it would not be the same kind of faith as our faith. Our faith exists so that we can access God’s saving grace. Jesus did not need grace. Jesus was full of grace and truth. Jesus is eternal life. He is the source of it. So that is why we cannot follow His faith (even if he did have faith hypothetically speaking) because our faith is dealing with eternal life or salvation. Jesus needs no salvation. Jesus is salvation.
And the Son of man?
 
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Mr. M

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You misunderstood me, friend. Nowhere did I say that this was a miracle of the Son. You asked before if the Father did miracles, too. This to me would be a miracle by the Father for Peter.



I said before that Jesus operated by miracles of God the Father, and miracles of the Holy Spirit. This does not mean Jesus did not have power of His own and He did not use it, as well.

Colossians 2:9
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

The Godhead is the Trinity.

John 5:21
“For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.”

The word “quickeneth” (quickens) is defined as: “make alive.”

Jesus said this in reply to the Jews in healing a man’s legs at the pool of Bethesda on the Sabbath. So Jesus made alive this man’s legs when they were dead. Jesus is taking the credit here because He said the Son of man quickeneth (quickens or makes alive) in whom He will.

So this one point in Scripture that proves that Christ had deity or super natural power of His own during His earthly ministry.

Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today. This clearly is an establishment of Christ’s own power because Jesus is saying He is among believers in His spirit (as the Word) as the second person of the Triune God. This is clearly deity or the power of God at work here. So no. Jesus was not stripped of His powers like Superman was stripped of His powers in Superman 2: The movie (Starring Christopher Reeve).

Jesus is God.
This is just not in name only…. But in power.
(Power that He had in being the second person of the Trinity).
And the Son of man?
 
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I caught that and fixed it already. You can call it a miracle if you want. I ask again, when
did the miracles of Messiah ever get separated into Father miracles, Son miracles, and Holy
Spirit miracles? Are they not all one? And yet, we have this Son of man, walking in the Spirit
doing exactly what we are commanded to do. Obey.

As I am sure you are aware: We believe in the Trinity. The Trinity teaches that the Lord our God is one God and yet He also exists as three distinct persons (i.e. Father, Word, and Holy Ghost).

1 John 5:7 KJB
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

As for obedience to walking in the Spirit:

Yes, I believe we are to walk in the Spirit and follow Christ’s example in moral conduct.
I believe that after a believer is saved by God’s grace, they must then enter the second step or stage of the salvation process as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. Note: This second step involves two parts according to the passage. But that’s another topic.

I believe faith is for salvation. This is why Jesus could not have faith. Jesus is also God and God cannot potentially doubt Himself or test Himself as if He were going to fail. Faith is a test. Jesus never was in any kind of pass or fail test. The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
 
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And the Son of man?

It’s a title showing that the Word was made flesh. It does not mean the Word stopped being the Word. Something was added to the Word and it does not mean the Word ceased to be the Word by adding flesh.
 
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Yes, I believe we are to walk in the Spirit and follow Christ’s example in moral conduct.
Moral conduct? We are to endure and overcome for His Name sake.
1 Peter 4:16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed,
but let him glorify God in this matter.
2 Corinthians 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation
also abounds through Christ.
Colossians 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is
lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church.

Everything needed to exercise moral conduct that is pleasing to God is laid out in the
law of Moses. The Christian walk is much more than moral behavior,
it is the righteousness of God in Christ.
Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law,
then Christ died in vain.

The Gospel is not about mimicking moral behavior, but overcoming all the sinful nature, by
being led by the Spirit given. That is the correct understanding of faith. You have insisted
that Hebrews 11:1 is the only Bible definition of faith. I have fully challenged that notion,
but you choose to ignore that post, though it has been made twice. So I will ask you one
more time to elaborate on your position here:
what does "substance" of things hoped for mean? What is the evidence?
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved
of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him
in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men,
the Man Christ Jesus.
 
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Mr. M

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It’s a title showing that the Word was made flesh. It does not mean the Word stopped being the Word. Something was added to the Word and it does not mean the Word ceased to be the Word by adding flesh.
How could being the Son of man add something to the Son of God? The point is that
becoming a man and surrendering His Will to the Father, He served Him as a man,
by the leading of the Spirit. A fact well attested to.
To reduce the significance of Christ's humanity by exalting His deity above
the Father's Will is an antichrist spirit.

1 John 2:
18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,
even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that
denieth the Father and the Son.
If you know who Christ is, you know that John is speaking of a man,
not the Son of God.

Galatians 3:
15
Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant,
yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say,
“And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.

Hebrews 2:
9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many
sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
14
Inasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise
took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death,
that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but
He took on him the seed of Abraham.

Who was made perfect, the Son of God? Or the Christ, the Spirit of just men, made perfect.
1 John 4:
2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come
in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even
now already is it in the world.

To admit that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, but deny what He did as
the Son of man, and attribute His actions to deity, is to speak from an antichrist spirit.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through
Jesus Christ.

Such an error to see the title Christ, and not understand that this refers
to His humanity, not His deity. For Christ is the seed of Abraham. The promise
of the Father to Abraham, and the Spirit now perfected on the Cross, so that all
who believe may "live in holiness and righteousness all the days of their lives"
. Luke 1:75

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men,
the Man Christ Jesus.
 
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So, what do you believe the significance is of His referring to Himself as the Son of man?
How would that affect His deity? Again, we are way past establishing His position in the
Godhead. You have not come close to showing that His miracles were an expression of
that deity. If He went to the cross as deity, then how is He fulfilling a covenant of man?
John 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will
know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me,
I speak these things.
You would have us believe that this statement implies that He was fully briefed in heaven
and by His own omniscience, what to expect on earth. He could know the horror of
crucifixion on our behalf only as the Son of man. Otherwise, people would say, and have said,
yeah, He suffered on the cross for us, but it wasn't the same because He is God. Actually,
it was much worse, knowing He could command 12 legions of angels. Instead:"for the joy that
was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand
of the throne of God." KJV. As Son of God, AND Son of man.

In reference to Jesus saying, “I do nothing of myself” in John 8:28 (KJB):

In context, this would be in reference to His bearing record (witness) of Himself, and teachings He said.

John 8:13-14

13 “The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true…”​

John 8:16

“And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.”​

John 8:28

“…I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.”​

In reference to John 5:19 where Jesus says, “The Son can do nothing,”:

Let’s read the whole verse.

John 5:19

“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”​

full


Likewise means: In like manner; also; etc.

Source:
King James Bible Dictionary - Reference List - Likewise

This means Jesus does what He sees His Father does in like manner or also.
This is confirmed by the verse I shown (verse 21).

Jesus says,

“For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.” (John 5:21).​

So Jesus is distinguishing between the Father raising the dead and or making alive in whom He will, and the Son making alive in whom He will. This means Jesus can make alive in whom He will. It does not mean Jesus is solely relying on the Father for power alone as many who hold to Modern bibles believe.

As for John 5:30 that says, “I can of mine own self do nothing”:

This is in context to judgment and Christ bearing witness.

The rest of verse 30 says,

“…as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” (John 5:30).​

John 5:31-32

31 “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.”​

So these accounts in Scripture does not line up with Christians who hold to Modern bibles on Philippians 2:7 that falsely teach that he emptied himself (CSB) or that he gave up his divine privileges (NLT) or the NIV that says, “he made himself nothing” (When Christ was not nothing, but He was full of grace and truth - See: John 1:14). The King James Bible correctly renders Philippians 2:7 as saying:

Philippians 2:7 (KJB)
“But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:”
 
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How could being the Son of man add something to the Son of God? The point is that
becoming a man and surrendering His Will to the Father, He served Him as a man,
by the leading of the Spirit. A fact well attested to.
To reduce the significance of Christ's humanity by exalting His deity above
the Father's Will is an antichrist spirit.

1 John 2:
18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,
even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that
denieth the Father and the Son.
If you know who Christ is, you know that John is speaking of a man,
not the Son of God.

Galatians 3:
15
Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant,
yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say,
“And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.

Hebrews 2:
9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many
sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
14
Inasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise
took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death,
that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but
He took on him the seed of Abraham.

Who was made perfect, the Son of God? Or the Christ, the Spirit of just men, made perfect.
1 John 4:
2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come
in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even
now already is it in the world.

To admit that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, but deny what He did as
the Son of man, and attribute His actions to deity, is to speak from an antichrist spirit.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through
Jesus Christ.

Such an error to see the title Christ, and not understand that this refers
to His humanity, not His deity. For Christ is the seed of Abraham. The promise
of the Father to Abraham, and the Spirit now perfected on the Cross, so that all
who believe may "live in holiness and righteousness all the days of their lives"
. Luke 1:75

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men,
the Man Christ Jesus.

The body of Jesus was made lower than angels in the fact that he was born of Adam through the Virgin Mary and he had real, flesh, and blood, etcetera. It does not mean Jesus did not have deity or that Jesus was stripped of deity as the second person of the Trinity. Anyways, if you keep rejecting what I have to say with Scripture, I think it is best we simply agree to disagree and move on, brother. There is no benefit to endlessly hashing this out if we disagree (no matter what verses I put forth to you).

I am busy with a book project for the Lord, as well. So my time is limited here.

May God’s grace, blessings, and good ways be upon you (even if we disagree).
 
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Moral conduct? We are to endure and overcome for His Name sake.
1 Peter 4:16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed,
but let him glorify God in this matter.
2 Corinthians 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation
also abounds through Christ.
Colossians 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is
lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church.

Everything needed to exercise moral conduct that is pleasing to God is laid out in the
law of Moses. The Christian walk is much more than moral behavior,
it is the righteousness of God in Christ.
Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law,
then Christ died in vain.

The Gospel is not about mimicking moral behavior, but overcoming all the sinful nature, by
being led by the Spirit given. That is the correct understanding of faith. You have insisted
that Hebrews 11:1 is the only Bible definition of faith. I have fully challenged that notion,
but you choose to ignore that post, though it has been made twice. So I will ask you one
more time to elaborate on your position here:
what does "substance" of things hoped for mean? What is the evidence?
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved
of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him
in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men,
the Man Christ Jesus.

Nowhere did I say we are to mimic moral behavior without the guidance of the Spirit or without the eradication of sin (Note: I will say that this is in reference to how we must overcome “mortal sin” here in this thread because “Sinless Perfection” is not allowed to be discussed in this section of the forums). Anyways, I said what I did because I believe Sanctification is the next step in salvation process after we are saved by God’s grace. You can learn more about what I believe on salvation in this thread here:

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

May God bless you.
 
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The body of Jesus was made lower than angels in the fact that he was born of Adam through the Virgin Mary and he had real, flesh, and blood, etcetera. It does not mean Jesus did not have deity or that Jesus was stripped of deity as the second person of the Trinity. Anyways, if you keep rejecting what I have to say with Scripture, I think it is best we simply agree to disagree and move on, brother. There is no benefit to endlessly hashing this out if we disagree (no matter what verses I put forth to you).

I am busy with a book project for the Lord, as well. So my time is limited here.

May God’s grace, blessings, and good ways be upon you (even if we disagree).
Your efforts to prove that Jesus Christ had no faith is a fruitless exercise. For as Son of God
or Son of man, He went to the cross with the full trust and assurance that His Father would
not allow Him to see corruption, and would raise Him from the dead. This is the very definition
of faith, as given by the scriptures you claim supports your position. Having pointed out
this true nature of faith, I will leave you alone to write a book.

Hebrews 11:
17 By faith
Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received
the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,”
19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which
he also received him in a figurative sense.
This is not only our faith, but our righteousness as well.
James 2:
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son
on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
 
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Your efforts to prove that Jesus Christ had no faith is a fruitless exercise. For as Son of God
or Son of man, He went to the cross with the full trust and assurance that His Father would
not allow Him to see corruption, and would raise Him from the dead. This is the very definition
of faith, as given by the scriptures you claim supports your position. Having pointed out
this true nature of faith, I will leave you alone to write a book.

Hebrews 11:
17 By faith
Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received
the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,”
19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which
he also received him in a figurative sense.
This is not only our faith, but our righteousness as well.
James 2:
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son
on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

This is talking about Abraham’s faith. Faith is for salvation for us believers. Jesus did not need faith in order to have salvation because Jesus is salvation.
 
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Jesus is the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world.
So there was no pass or fail test of faith for Jesus. It was a done deal and all of the triune God knew this. Yes, Jesus at one point while His Omniscience was suppressed asked if there was another way, but Jesus never came close to doubting the Father or fell under some kind of test of faith by God. Jesus always did things that pleased the Father. Jesus was one with the Father and not separate from Him.
 
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How can Jesus say that He came down from Heaven and yet also say the Son of man is in heaven?

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” (John 3:13).

The answer is in the words of Jesus.

For Jesus said,

Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.” (John 14:11).

This is how Jesus could say that the Son of man (i.e. Jesus) is currently in Heaven because He is one with the Father. So Jesus in His spirit (not in His physical body) is one with the Father in heaven. This implies that Jesus may be aware of certain things in Heaven because He is one with the Father in Heaven. This means….. NO FAITH. For faith is defined in Hebrews 11:1 as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So the issue is not about Jesus trusting the Father, the issue is CONNECTIVITY. If Jesus is truly connected to God in that He is truly the second person of the Triune Godhead or Trinity, there is no issue of faith involved. God cannot test or have faith in Himself. That’s a contradiction in terms. Faith for us is about salvation. Jesus never needed salvation. For He is salvation.

We have not seen Heaven. We have to believe in it by faith or sight unseen. But Jesus has seen Heaven because He said he came down from Heaven and He (the Son of Man) is in Heaven.
 
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