Did Jesus have a brother???

[isshinwhat]

Many, Years pursuing Episcopal priesthood, Healing/pastoral ministries...

Good to have you here, lonelyandscared.

Neal

 

[his-girl]

In Galatians 1:18-20, Paul tells us 'then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter and stayed with him fifteen days.  I saw none of the other apostles-- only James, the Lord's brother.  I assure you before God that what I am writing is no lie.'  So it appears that Jesus had siblings.

 

[dignitized]

nyj: I'll pass on that since my point is that: the Orthodox say that the RCC is wrong and teh RCC says the OC is wrong . . . .

 

[kern]

his-girl: The word used there can mean cousin or kinsman as well as blood brother.

-Chris

 

[dignitized]

his-girl: are you aware that there was not notion of a Nuclear family at the time when peter and Paul were writing their epistles? Members of what we call the extended family, i.e. cousins - were called Brothers as well. Not only that, but the apostolic and anti-Nicene fathers all profess this to be the truth. If that’s not good enough for you then how about that Luther, Calvin, Zwingli etc all confessed Mary ever virgin as a matter of the faith - in fact, this belief of brothers and sisters for Christ did not arise until the last century.

 

[Jephunneh]

HisGirl you are right!

Galatians 1
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.


Jude 1
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

 

[his-girl]

Originally posted by Br. Max
his-girl: are you aware that there was not notion of a Nuclear family at the time when peter and Paul were writing their epistles? Members of what we call the extended family, i.e. cousins - were called Brothers as well. Not only that, but the apostolic and anti-Nicene fathers all profess this to be the truth. If that’s not good enough for you then how about that Luther, Calvin, Zwingli etc all confessed Mary ever virgin as a matter of the faith - in fact, this belief of brothers and sisters for Christ did not arise until the last century.

 

Wow, why all the hostility Br. Max? 

I don't agree with you...but I can say it in a nice manner.  

I do not believe that Mary was a virgin her whole life.  But does this really matter when it's all said and done?  The most important thing is that we ALL know Jesus and are saved through him....not whether Mary had sex after Jesus was born.

 

[sklippstein]

Mary is, was and will always be a virgin.

 

[his-girl]

Mary is, was and will always be a virgin

You know that for a fact?

 

[ZooMom]

Originally posted by his-girl
In Galatians 1:18-20, Paul tells us 'then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter and stayed with him fifteen days.  I saw none of the other apostles-- only James, the Lord's brother.  I assure you before God that what I am writing is no lie.'  So it appears that Jesus had siblings.

Why does that make Mary James' mother?

 

[his-girl]

Originally posted by his-girlIn Galatians 1:18-20, Paul tells us 'then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter and stayed with him fifteen days.  I saw none of the other apostles-- only James, the Lord's brother.  I assure you before God that what I am writing is no lie.'  So it appears that Jesus had siblings.

Originally posted by ZooMom
Why does that make Mary James' mother?

Why wouldn't that make Mary James' mother?

 

[ZooMom]

Because the Bible never says that Mary had other children. In order to come to that belief you have to apply your own preconceptions to the Scriptures.

Catholics, OTOH, have Sacred Tradition evidenced in the ECF that Mary was, and remained, a virgin before and after Jesus' birth.


Peace be with you.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Originally posted by his-girl
Why wouldn't that make Mary James' mother?

He could be a half-brother from an earlier marriage of Joseph's. James was older than Jesus.

 

[sklippstein]

You know that for a fact?

 

There is no record of Mary having bore any other children.

 

 

[his-girl]

The Bible states that Mary had other children and did not remain a virgin her entire life. 

Matthew 1:24-25 "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."

Matthew 12:46-47 "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

Mark 6:2-3 "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"

John 2:12 "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."

Acts 1:14 "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."

1 Cor. 9:4-5 "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"

Gal. 1:19 "But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother."

If the brothers of Jesus are not His brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenter’s father?  In other words, ‘mother’ here refers to Mary.  The carpenter in Matthew 13:55, refers to Joseph.  These are literal. 

Furthermore, I don't understand this debate at all.   Does it really matter if Mary remained a virgin, does it really matter if she had other children? 

 

[Miss Shelby]

Furthermore, I don't understand this debate at all. Does it really matter if Mary remained a virgin, does it really matter if she had other children?

If one isn't Catholic, it shouldn't. And it certainly isn't a salvation issue as far as I can tell.

Michelle

 

[Terri]

Originally posted by Miss Shelby
If one isn't Catholic, it shouldn't. And it certainly isn't a salvation issue as far as I can tell.

Michelle

I agree Miss Shelby that it isn't a salvation issue.

The only bone I have to pick with Mary is that she seems to be on a slippery slope.

1) She is a perpetual virgin

2) She is a co-redeemer

3) She is queen of heaven

If it continues this way she will one day be declared sole or head redeemer with Jesus pushed into second place.  

Please be on your guard.

 

[KC Catholic]

Originally posted by Terri

If it continues this way she will one day be declared sole or head redeemer with Jesus pushed into second place.  

Please be on your guard.[/color] [/B]

It will NEVER happen. The Church has already stated that Mary will not be considered Co-redemptrix and have dropped that effort two to three years ago. So, Mary will NEVER be placed above Christ in the Catholic Church.

How could it happen when the Eucharist is the center of our worship? Jesus is the Eucharist, the 'Bread of Life' - Mary could never be considered at that level.

Everything, everything we do as Catholics has Christ at the center - Christ is the focus. If he weren't - I'd never converted and I would have encouraged my wife to leave the Church. But, thanks be to God, Christ is the center of our worship in the Catholic Church.

 

 

[ZooMom]

Originally posted by his-girl
The Bible states that Mary had other children and did not remain a virgin her entire life. 

Matthew 1:24-25 "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."

Matthew 12:46-47 "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

Mark 6:2-3 "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"

John 2:12 "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."

Acts 1:14 "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."

1 Cor. 9:4-5 "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"

Gal. 1:19 "But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother."

If the brothers of Jesus are not His brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenter’s father?  In other words, ‘mother’ here refers to Mary.  The carpenter in Matthew 13:55, refers to Joseph.  These are literal. 

Furthermore, I don't understand this debate at all.   Does it really matter if Mary remained a virgin, does it really matter if she had other children? 

You are still missing the point. None of those Scriptures call Mary the mother of Jesus' brothers. None of those Scriptures tell us that these 'brothers' were younger than Jesus. Where are you getting that idea? You are placing your own assumptions on the Scriptures.

Catholics, however, have Sacred Tradition in conjunction with the Scriptures that tell us that Joseph was an old man when he married Mary, widowed with his own grown children. Do the Scriptures contradict this?

Does it all matter? Well, apparently it matters enough that Catholics have to be wrong about it, doesn't it?

Peace be with you.

 

[Terri]

KC I really do pray you are right!

Sorry, but I can't help but be concerned when it seems there is so much focus on Mary.

A lot of us have this concern.  It is often taken that we hate Catholics because of it.  Many of us don't hate you, we are truely concerned.