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Did Jesus go to Hell?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by SeekJusticeLoveMercy, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    Even if the account is a parable (and there's no reason to believe that it is), then do you have any examples from any of Jesus' parables where He used an example THAT WASN'T TRUE to make His point? Also, do you have any examples from Jesus' parables where He specifically named people by their names?
     
  2. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    Where does the Scriptures remotely hint such an idea besides the story of the rich-man and Lazarus?

    Another question, do you really believe that Abraham and all those who died in Christ used to "observe" while the wicked were being tormented in the flames?
     
  3. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    ..but it is a parable.

    Unless, of course, you believe that the poor will go to heaven, simply because of their dire financial situation while on earth?

    But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented. Luke 16:25
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  4. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    Who said that "the poor will go to heaven, simply because of their dire financial situation on earth"? I've never said as much, nor did Jesus in this account. Look, I asked you if Jesus ever used examples WHICH WEREN'T TRUE in any of His parables or not. Well, did He? Whichever way you look at it, Lazarus was saved in this account and the rich man who had no compassion upon him whatsoever was not. Was Jesus saying that Lazarus was saved simply because he was poor? Of course, He wasn't, so, with all due respect, your question is irrelevant, isn't it?
     
  5. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    Btw, we have ever reason to believe that Lazarus was in ABRAHAM'S BOSOM because he was a believer in Jesus Christ, the singular seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:16), and not simply because he was poor.
     
  6. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    Abraham said that Lazarus was being comforted, simply because he was POOR while on earth. Does this mean that the poor will go to be with Abraham simply because they are POOR?

    But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented. Luke 16:25

    Where does it say that Lazarus was saved? Jesus Christ simply said that Lazarus was poor...
     
  7. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    Are you saying that the Lazarus in that story is the same Lazarus that was resurrected by Christ? Scripture evidence please?
     
  8. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    You're inserting the "simply" part. It's nowhere in the text, nor is it even inferred. Again, Lazarus was in "Abraham's bosom". What do you suppose that this means?
    He was in "Abraham's bosom", wasn't he? What do you suppose that this means? If we're honest with the scriptures and with ourselves, then doesn't it mean that he was saved? IOW, aren't there multiple examples in scripture where Abraham is the father of those who believe?
     
  9. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm not saying that at all. I don't believe for even one second that it's the same Lazarus.
     
  10. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    Btw, you still haven't answered my questions...
     
  11. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    Again, what REASON was given for Lazarus being comforted in Abraham's Bosom? Was it not because he was poor on earth?

    He was being comforted by Abraham because he was poor and did not have anything while on earth.

    But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and you are tormented. Luke 16:25

    ^^^^^^
     
  12. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    Say what? Abraham is now the comforter of all who were poor? Where do you find that anywhere in scripture? Anyhow...

    WHERE WAS ABRAHAM?

    Since Lazarus was in his bosom, where was Abraham?
     
  13. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    You can keep on insisting that Jesus said that this is "the reason", but He still said no such thing. No more did Jesus give this as "the reason" than He gave "the reason" that Lazarus was "full of sores" or received "evil things" in his lifetime. You're missing the point as to why Jesus used this example. The Pharisees were covetous and cared not for the poor. Jesus wasn't saying that people are saved simply because they're poor, but, rather, He was trying to show the Pharisees how they ought to be faithful with the unrighteous mammon...just as He sought to show them elsewhere. Anyhow, NOWHERE did Jesus even insinuate that Lazarus was saved due to his poor estate. Rather, as One Who had already given teachings of what it truly meant to be "Abraham's seed", Jesus spoke of Lazarus being in "Abraham's bosom" as a true believer in Himself.
     
  14. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    Thus the reason I take the story to be a parable, and not something that is to be understood as literal...

    I dunno where Abraham was. All the Scriptures say is that Lazarus was carried by the angels to the bosom of Abraham.
     
  15. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

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    I cant find my study on this one, but heres some neat comparisons on this, I just cant run the right keywords on this puter (as with my older one) where the doc pops up by title and Im not searching through a thousand of them to find it ^_^

    Dont these sound similar though?

    Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

    Whereas back here it says...

    1Sam 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory:

    To set among princes, and of Abraham they said...

    Gen 23:6 Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us

    Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

    For instance here too...

    James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

    Which likewise shows (rehighlighted)

    1Sam 2:8He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory:

    James 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

    Does speak of one who maketh himself rich yet hath nothing and he who maketh himself poor yet possesses all things as well. Even as someone who is rich toward God verses one who layeth treasure up for himself.
     
  16. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    I used to have access to a smiley that cut of the pigtails of another smiley...

    Anyhow, you're proving my point. IOW, it's not just the poor who are saved, but the poor who are RICH IN FAITH...as Lazarus was.

    :doh:

    I'm sorry to have to use such an emoticon in response to something that has been written by someone whom I both like and respect, but it was warranted. Can't you see what you've done? First, you insist that Abraham is the comforter of all who are poor, with no scriptural basis for doing so. Secondly, when such a non-existent precedent is pointed out to you, you claim that this is the reason why you believe the account to be a parable. IOW, you make something up and then say that it can't be true and must be a parable.

    :doh:

    OY VEY!
     
  17. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    As I said before brother, if we are to take that story as literal, does it mean:

    -the wicked in Sheol/Hades are being tormented in flames before the resurrection of the dead?
    -the spirit/souls in Hades/Sheol have "tongues, fingers" etc and all those other stuff associated with having a body?
    -the righteous dead used to observe the wicked burn in Sheol/Hades?
     
  18. God's Word

    God's Word Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 15:15

    "And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age."
     
  19. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    Actually brother, I am not. However, if I was taking the parable of the rich-man and Lazarus to be LITERAL, you would have a valid point.
     
  20. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    I believe that passage is simply talking about the grave.

    But I will lie with my fathers, and thou shalt carry me out of Egypt, and bury me in their burying place. And he said, I will do as thou hast said. Genesis 47:30
     
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