Did Jesus come to establish a religion called, "Christianity", or The Order of Melchizedek?

[Albion]

Jesus is not limited by man's interpretation of a book.

I don't recall anyone saying that He is.

He came to save the world - even though many reject Him.

Very well, but He also told us that not everyone will be saved.

 

[Nathan@work]

Very well, but He also told us that not everyone will be saved.

That would be why I said many would reject Him.

 

[timothyu]

That would be why I said many would reject Him.

Agreed.. and even the days of the world are limited. His Kingdom comes in a dual way.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Jesus is not limited by man's interpretation of a book.

He came to save the world - even though many reject Him.

What will happen to those who don't reject Him because they know absolutely nothing at all about Him?

 

[Nathan@work]

What will happen to those who don't reject Him because they know absolutely nothing at all about Him?

Who knows absolutely nothing at all about Him?


Romans 1:18-25 (ESV)

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

 

[timothyu]

Who knows absolutely nothing at all about Him?

Half the world?

 

[Nathan@work]

Half the world?

So is Paul lying?

 

[timothyu]

So is Paul lying?

Not if taken in context of about who or what people recognise as the power behind all. They don't need a name or a religion but simply know there has to be something there no matter what we call it. You referred to a specific being.

 

[Nathan@work]

Not if taken in context of about who or what people recognise as the power behind all. They don't need a name or a religion but simply know there has to be something there no matter what we call it. You referred to a specific being.

I quoted Paul. He is the one who referred to a specific being.

So he is either telling the truth or not.

 

[timothyu]

I quoted Paul. He is the one who referred to a specific being.

Paul was talking about God. Your passage does not address bbbbbbb's mention of Jesus. I guess that is where the confusion came in. Most of the world knows about God, in one form or another according to their understanding, but about half know about Jesus is what I was saying..

 

[Nathan@work]

Paul was talking about God. Your passage does not address bbbbbbb's mention of Jesus. I guess that is where the confusion came in. Most of the world knows about God, in one form or another according to their understanding, but about half know about Jesus is what I was saying..

I see. While b's is specifically talking about Jesus, Paul is specifically stating that all men are without excuse - including the ones who have not "heard" of Jesus.

Rejecting God is rejecting Jesus, and rejecting Jesus is rejecting God. You cannot accept one without the other.

Salvation is not a script or liturgical thing. It is God the Father forgiving our sins because of the sacrifice of His Son. So in other words, whether or not the 'name' Jesus is heard/used, God can give Faith to anyone who does not reject Him.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

What is The Order of Melchizedek?

 

[Nathan@work]

What is The Order of Melchizedek?

That is a whole study in itself.

You can start in Hebrews 5 for the context, and just trail it on from there.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

That is a whole study in itself.
You can start in Hebrews 5 for the context, and just trail it on from there.

haha On a totally unrelated topic... I just read this...
"He (a priest chosen amongst the people) can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness."

A useful reminder for me to deal gently with one another instead of stamping on them !! To humbly remember my own weakness before God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The literal rendering of the Greek is 'Life Eternal' I am sure other Greek scholars will confirm this.

Kind of. Aionios is the adjective form of aion, meaning "age". The implication of what Jesus is saying is that this life is eternal, forever, ever-lasting, etc; but on a technical level it doesn't mean "eternal" in the way that we use the word "eternal".

Jesus is very clearly talking about eternal life, however. Because the "age" to which that life is connected to is un-ending. This un-ending-ness is captured in the Greek phrase eis tous aionas ton aionion, "unto the ages of the ages".

It's also why we can render the phrase in the Nicene Creed, that the Son is "begotten before all ages" as "eternally begotten".

So conceptionally the word is used to express endlessness; even if on a more technical level it isn't a word-for-word equivalent to the English "eternal" or "forever".

Since the life we receive in Christ is the life of that future age, when God makes all things new, in the resurrection of the dead (of which Christ is the first-fruits); and we have this from God as grace, appropriated to us through faith; then we can speak of our having eternal life now. As the life that is to come is ours, even now, by God's grace by our union to Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

What is The Order of Melchizedek?

In the context of the OP? Probably worthless heresy.

In the context of Scripture, it means that Jesus is high priest in the manner of Melchizedek. In the same way that Melchizedek was a high priest of God, but without the Aaronic lineage (which was necessitated under the Torah for Israel), so Jesus is high priest even though He is not a descendant of Aaron.

Melchizedek didn't have the "priestly credentials" as was required under the Torah, and so the author of Hebrews draws a comparison between both Jesus and Melchizedek. By this the author of Hebrews is pointing to parts of the national history and story of Israel that pre-date the giving of the Torah.

In the same way that St. Paul goes back before Moses to Abraham, to state that Abraham had faith and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Abraham was reckoned righteous through faith apart from the Law. Thus St. Paul points to a righteousness apart from the Torah, apart from the Law.

Jesus, our great high priest, a high priest in the manner of of Melchizedek, who had no priestly lineage giving him credentials, but was a high priest anyway; so likewise our great high priest isn't high priest in the manner of Aaron and the entire line of the Levitical priests of Israel, but stands apart, and above them. For what He has done is greater than all those things. For He offered up His own life, as the pure unblemished Lamb of God, to take away the sins of the world and make peace and reconciliation between the world and God.

And so, He is both Sacrifice and High Priest, offering Himself for the world, giving Himself freely, as a covering for the world, making atonement between us and God. Thereby we are now freely justified by the grace of God, through faith, on account of what He has done.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Just being Socratic.

The Jewish religion was the one true nation church started by God at Sinai and as God said in Isaiah 5 - He did not start it so that it would fail. Failure was not God's will for Israel. So no surprise that we find Christ weeping over Israel in the Gospels. So then no -- Christ's mission to save the world was not about dumping the one true nation church He started at Sinai.

However "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11 - so then Matt 23 ends like this --
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is the One who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

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As for "the order of Melchizedek" -- Heb 8 says "if He were on Earth He would not be a priest at all" - Christ is our Priest - our High Priest in Heaven (See Heb 4 ending)

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Jewish religion was the one true nation church started by God at Sinai and as God said in Isaiah 5 - He did not start it so that it would fail. Failure was not God's will for Israel. So no surprise that we find Christ weeping over Israel in the Gospels. So then no -- Christ's mission to save the world was not about dumping the one true nation church He started at Sinai.

However "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11 - so then Matt 23 ends like this --
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is the One who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

===============================

As for "the order of Melchizedek" -- Heb 8 says "if He were on Earth He would not be a priest at all" - Christ is our Priest - our High Priest in Heaven (See Heb 4 ending)

Interesting. Do you know why God wrote a certificate of divorce against his wife, Israel?

 

[Albion]

The Jewish religion was the one true nation church started by God at Sinai and as God said in Isaiah 5 - He did not start it so that it would fail. Failure was not God's will for Israel. So no surprise that we find Christ weeping over Israel in the Gospels. So then no -- Christ's mission to save the world was not about dumping the one true nation church He started at Sinai.

"Dumping?" No. However, that church had served God's purpose during the time preceding the founding of His new church at the conclusion of Christ's public ministry. Jesus himself referred to that founding and also to the planned expansion of it thereafter in the Gospel of Matthew.

 

[BobRyan]

"Dumping?" No. However, that church had served God's purpose during the time preceding the founding of His new church at the conclusion of Christ's public ministry. Jesus himself referred to that founding and also to the planned expansion of it thereafter in the Gospel of Matthew.

The Gospels say "They rejected God's purpose for them"

John 1:11 "HE came to HIS OWN" - - God's sovereign choice, God's action
"and His OWN received Him NOT" -- free will

Luke 7: 29 When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.

Is 5:4
3 “And now, you inhabitants of Jerusalem and people of Judah,
Judge between Me and My vineyard.
4 What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?
Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?

Matt 23:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is the One who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

Luke 17:
41 When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known on this day, even you, the conditions for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. 43 For the days will come upon you when your enemies will put up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44 and they will level you to the ground, and throw down your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.”

45 And Jesus entered the temple grounds and began to drive out those who were selling, 46 saying to them, “It is written: ‘And My house will be a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a den of robbers.”