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Did he hide himself when making things (god)?

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by Skreiaberg, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. Skreiaberg

    Skreiaberg New Member

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    When we humans or animals or plants for example, make something, you can see it`s a being with free will and something living and you can`t really hide it ether because it always shows who`s made it, except if you`re very good at disgusing yourself, but look at rocks for example or flowing water or how the sun moves and so fourth, does it really look like it was made of someone, I mean with the natural variations and randomness, if not, did a higher being or a god hide himself from us on purpose or does it really look like it was made from someone?
     

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  2. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    He Hid himself in us.....and forgot who He was, "made Himself of no reputation," so that we could remember who we are... Sons of God.
     
  3. Skreiaberg

    Skreiaberg New Member

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    Ah, he forgot himself.. makes sense then if you can`t see anything of him in nature
     
  4. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If a human makes something like a painting or a book, you might see the person standing nearby so he or she can show you who made the painting or the book.

    But God is not like material things He has made. You can't see Him, but He is in and through things, keeping them going.

    He is in and through humans, keeping our bodies going as well as they do; our physical bodies are so complicated, that humans have not figured out the human body, except to some extent.

    He is in and through every electron, consciously keeping it going. So, He is fast, too.

    So, He is different than we are, to say the least. He is not material; so our material senses do not detect Him. And humans spiritually we are not like God, and therefore humans do not experience Him, though He is right inside us and all through our bodies.

    It is like how you can hear certain music on the radio. But your radio must be tuned to the right channel in order to hear the nice soft smooth soothing jazz.

    Like this, if we are on the wrong spiritual and emotional wavelength . . . of worry and lust and greed and hate and unforgiveness > this is not on God's love wavelength. And so, it is because someone is not tuned to God in His love, that someone does not experience that He exists . . . and how He is.

    By the way - - those soft smooth soothing jazz radio waves can pass right through you and you do not benefit from them. You can be worrying and hurrying and scurrying, not soothed. And, like this, God is in and through people, but people are not tuned through Jesus so they have "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)
     
  5. Skreiaberg

    Skreiaberg New Member

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    So, you mean he`s sort of motivation a person to make something for example, but you can`t see evidence of it because he`s forgotten?
     
  6. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    You are looking in the wrong places....God is Spirit and them that worship Him must worship, in the same. God is everywhere..... but sometimes to See, one must close their eyes.
     
  7. Skreiaberg

    Skreiaberg New Member

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    Perhaps youre right
     
  8. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

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    We can learn much about God from his creation, the things he has made reveal much about what kind of person he is and the qualities he posse's. His power, wisdom and love for example.

    Rom 1:20 "For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable."

    LB
     
  9. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Active Member

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    'by a man's work shall you know him'

    I'd say if he was trying to hide, he didn't do a very good job! most people acknowledge the evidence for a God in his creation.

    Having said that, I believe he also gave us the free will to deny his existence- which is logical also-
    If there is no choice, there is no personal journey. You cannot force a person to be your friend- you would only destroy any chance of true friendship.
     
  10. Skreiaberg

    Skreiaberg New Member

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    Are you sure that they just didnt write this because they couldnt find any evidence?
     
  11. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

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    Absolutely sure. God's personality and Godship are revealed in his creation. What the book of creation does not reveal is his name and his purpose. For that you have to go to another book, the Bible.

    LB
     
  12. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No God has not hidden himself from us in creation.
    You use the example of artists making something, well if I showed you a small portion of a famous painting. Could you be able to recognise both which painting it was and the artist?

    Experts study whole paintings in great detail to learn to recognise an artists painting style.

    From what you can see of creation, you understand there is a creator, but lack the knowledge to identify who that creator is.

    May I suggest that you study Jesus. Is he who he claims to be? Did he rise from the dead?
    Why did he come, die and be resurrected?
     
  13. mmarco

    mmarco Member

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    I do not think that God hides from us, but God is intrinsically invisible exactly as our own thoughts and feelings are intrinsically invisible. You cannot see people's thoughts or feelings, can you? We can see only material objects and we can hear only material acustic waves, but God is not material. We can know Him inside our mind, because He speaks to us through our conscience.

    The existence and the Goodness of God are the most fundamental truth and I do not think that this truth can be deduced through any form of reasoning, because this would mean believing more in such reasoning than in God.
    However, I believe that there are solid rational arguments that show that the belief in the existence of an intelligent God is absolutely reasonable, i.e. that this belief has a rational foundation.
    In particular, being a physicist, I believe that some of these arguments can be reached through a rational analysis of our scientific knowledge.


    The extraordinary success of the laws of physics in predicting sistematically with great accuracy natural phenomena, reveals a fundamental property of the universe, which is its close correspondence with abstract mathematical structures, to the point that abstract mathematical structures are the only means to identify general principles able to account coherently for the variety of natural phenomena. The physical reality manifests itself as a realization of some specific abstract mathematical structures (what we call “the laws of physics”); in fact, according to modern science, the building blocks of the universe are not particles, but quantum fields, which are abstract mathematical structures which properties are abstract mathematical properties. This close correspondence with abstract mathematical structures represents the most fundamental and relevant information that science provides about the nature of the universe and the physical reality.

    On the other hand, mathematical structures are only constructions of the rational thought and a mathematical structure can exist only as a thought in a thinking mind conceiving it; this implies that matter (and the physical reality) is not the foundation of reality, but its existence depends on a more fundamental reality i.e. consciousness: contrary to the basic hypothesis of materialism, consciousness is a more fundamental reality than matter.

    Therefore the existence of this mathematically structured universe implies the existence of a conscious and intelligent God, conceiving it as a mathematical model. In other words, the universe can be only the manifestation of a mathematical theory existing in the mind of a personal God.

    Atheism does not account for the most important and fundamental infirmation that science provides about the physical reality (i.e. its mathematical modellability) and denies, without any rational arguments, the only rational explanation. It is totally unreasonable to expect that mathematics can so accurately describe a universe that should have existed before mathematics was conceived and independently of the existence of rational thinking, which is the necessary condition for the existence of mathematics


    There is another argument from physics that I find strongly convincing; according to our scientific knowledges, all chemical and biological processes (including cerebral processes) are caused by the electromagnetic interaction between subatomic particles such as electrons and protons. Quantum mechanics accounts for such interactions, as well as for the properties of subatomic particles. The point is that there is no trace of consciousness, sensations, emotions, etc. in the laws of quantum mechanics (as well as in all the laws of physcis). Consciousness is irreducible to the laws of physics, while all cerebral processes are, which is sufficient to prove that consciousness is irreducible to cerebral processes and that cerebral processes cannot be identified as the cause of consciousness. The basic assumption of materialism (which identifies cerebral processes as the origin of consciousness) is then contradicted by this fundamental scientific result, i.e. the irreducibility of consciousness to cerebral processes. This result represents the most strong argument in favour of the existence of the soul, as the unphysical and trascendent principle necessary for the existence of our consciousness. Since our soul cannot have a physical origin, it can only be created directly by God. The existence of God is a necessary condition for the existence of our soul, as well as for the existence of us as conscious beings.
     
  14. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, in my opinion, God never stops knowing things, but He might not let certain things effect what He is going to do. So, in a practical way, He forgets . . . meaning something does not effect or decide what He does.

    For an example, God's says He forgets our sins, if we trust in Jesus. Yet, also in God's word we see how our Apostle Paul tells us about how he once sinned. Even so, he can live as though that never happened . . . because of how now he is with Jesus.

    So, for judgment it is forgotten, but for an example to encourage us how God forgives, it is remembered. :)

    Then we have how Jesus left Heaven itself in order to reach us and save us. If we say Jesus "forgot" Himself, by leaving Heaven in order to bless us because He loves us > yeah, we could say He "forgot" Himself > meaning He was not going to think about how He was in Heaven, because He was so busy with loving us and caring about us. But on the other hand, He might have been remembering how He is compassionate and caring and able to help us, and this mattered more than just thinking about how great He was in Heaven. And He was remembering how we so needed help.

    In any case, we can see how Jesus is not conceited, if He cared more about us, than about staying in Heaven.

    So, why does not God make Himself more obvious to each human? We say we can see Him, through His creation. But there are things we do not see about Him, just by looking at creation, right? Can we look at the sun, for example, and know God wants to forgive us and adopt us through Jesus to become His children? But maybe we can see how so many creatures are family beings . . . so we might realize God is about family love and caring and sharing and helping each other. We can see how doing things as family can work better.

    But if God is not making Himself obvious through creation . . . in every detail . . . there can be His purpose for this. Creation is not what matters the most. He wants our attention actually beyond how marvelously and wondrously He has made things. Creation might be partly for getting our attention to God, but not to stay only on the fact that God has created things. There is so much more to God, than how well He can make things. He is about family caring and sharing love . . . being personal with His children . . . in our hearts and minds.

    So, in order to be with God, we need to be able to sense and feel and perceive deeper than our natural senses. And . . . by the way - - how we are, now, can effect how we see God.

    And there is His overall purpose for making all things. His own attention is not mainly to things He has made and getting people to know He made it all. This is more of a beginning realization we can make. But what does He want to bring us to? What about after the end of this earth and the rest of the universe??

    This universe is not the end of the good things God has done. So, God is not going to just have people die and then spend eternity saying, yay, You did such a great job of creating the universe. His attention is to much more and better that He has coming. The present creation is part of His plan, but this present universe will no longer exist - - or be remembered, by the way - - once God has done what is His main purpose.

    Maybe we could say, He is like the artist who makes such a great painting and he is there at the art show; but he has become so busy with loving and sharing with certain people; they have started to get to know him and find him to be much more interesting than his painting! :)

    In our Creator's love, we discover the best creativity, which He shares with us.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
  15. ldonjohn

    ldonjohn Active Member

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    Hey, Skreiaberg, may I ask if you are really looking for answers about Christianity or are you looking to challenge/debate Christian beliefs?
     
  16. drich0150

    drich0150 Regular Member

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    scripture tells us God hides himself from the learned and proud but shows himself to the meek and humble in heart.
     
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