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Did God Stop "Dictating" His Word After The Book Of Revelation??.......

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by Tim Myers, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. 1Em1Esseswife

    1Em1Esseswife Well-Known Member

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    Another good one.
    Several of Paul's letters were also written after.
    We know by reading Galations that Paul went up to Jerusalem about 5 years after Christ's resurection.John was not there.

    GALATIONS 1
    17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

    18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

    19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

    That makes me wonder where John was.
    We know that around that time Herod killed James, John's brother.
    I'm bettin' that,even as much as the jews hated christians, Herod could not get away with killin' John also and extinguishing an Israelites bloodline.
    Therefore this is most likely the time John was banished to Patmos.

    Not sure why all the so called scholars missed this, but it makes the most sense.

    Food for thought hunh? :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012
  2. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

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    In hearts, being made an epistle of Christ:thumbsup:


    2Cr 3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.


    Like, dont add to the book, but by the Spirit adding to the Church (His body) by the ministration of the Spirit.
     
  3. kevin mccue

    kevin mccue Guest

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    OzSpen: Maybe I can comment here; Listen you have to know that a synergistic view of Salvation is not even Biblically Christian. It was judged a heresy at the synod of Dordt and it is a heresy today. You place yourself in Gal 1:6-9 Arminianism is another gospel which is NO gospel= no salvation
     
  4. kevin mccue

    kevin mccue Guest

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    OzSpen: Maybe I can comment here; Listen you have to know that a synergistic view of Salvation is not even Biblically Christian. It was judged a heresy at the synod of Dordt and it is a heresy today. You place yourself in Gal 1:6-9 Arminianism is another gospel which is NO gospel= no salvation
     
  5. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Do you see what you do? You make assertions about an Arminian approach to salvation. You provide no proof of your statements. Citing Gal 1:6-9 is no proof.

    Norman Geisler, an eminent theologian, apologist and exegete, has refuted your opposition to synergism and salvation in his book, Chosen But Free: A Balanced View of Divine Election (Bethany House Publishers 1999).

    This is not the thread in which to discuss this issue. In the Soteriology directory, why don't you start a new thread with a title such as "There is no such thing as free will in salvation" and begin with your refutation of a couple of points of an Arminian view?

    If you choose to do this, please let me know in a PM as I don't often go to Soteriology.

    Since you say that "a synergistic view of Salvation is not even Biblically Christian", are you assigning synergistic Christians to damnation? That seems to be a statement from one of your previous posts. If that is the case, you have assigned to damnation these Christian church fathers: Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athenagoras of Athens, Theophilus of Antioch, Tatian of Syria, Bardaisan of Syria, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Novatian of Rome, Origen, Methodius, Archellaus, Arnobius of Sicca, Cyril of Jerusalem, Gregory of Nyssa, Jerome, John Chrysostom, early St. Augustine, Anselm, and Aquinas.

    Sincerely, Oz
     
  6. ZaidaBoBaida

    ZaidaBoBaida When do I stop being a Newbie?

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    In Quaker tradition Jesus is the word of God (John 1) and the scriptures are true. We believe that the Holy Spirit continues to speak to us today just as he did in past times, but that if we receive any revelation that contradicts the scripture then it should be disregarded.
     
  7. kevin mccue

    kevin mccue Guest

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    ZaidaBoBaida: "in the Quaker tradition" are you a quaker? If so, much of what they teach contradicts scripture and should, as you say; be disregarded. We can discuss this if you're open to it.
     
  8. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I'm a monergist, however the Synod of Dordt is no ecumenical council and no more gets to define orthodoxy/heresy for the whole Christian Church than the Councils of Florence or Trent.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  9. freezerman2000

    freezerman2000 Living and dying in 3/4 time

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    He has stopped "dictating", but has NEVER stopped inspiring!
     
  10. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    The Synod of Dordt was organised by the Dutch Reformed Church in Holland. Others of Reformed persuasion from outside of Holland were invited, but it was a Calvinistic Synod designed to address the rising influence/threat of Arminianism that was in Holland and with influence outside of Holland.

    It can by no means be seen as a representative Council to discuss this matter of salvation that resulted in the Calvinistic TULIP formulation re salvation. It was no place for monergism vs synergism (modern terminology) to get a balanced hearing.

    You say that you are a monergist. Do you agree with the other poster (whose post has now been removed from this thread along with my response) that there is no eternal salvation for those who believe in a synergistic view of salvation through Christ?

    Oz
     
  11. Tzaousios

    Tzaousios Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

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    I do not understand why you are trumpeting the contributions of Augustine and Anselm now when you yourself have come very close in discussions in Soteriology to condemning them.

    I recall very clearly instances where you asserted that Augustine was corrupted by Manicheanism and pagan philosophy to the point that he argued for a seemingly monergistic view of predestination and limited human will. You made the association from those negative things to whatever you perceive to be the driving force behind Calvinism.

    Are these two eminent Church Fathers useful for some of your purposes and can be tossed on the rubbish heap when they have outlived their usefulness?
     
  12. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Unless you can find the exact quotes that I made, I cannot respond adequately.

    Here I wrote of the "early Augustine". There was a change in beliefs between the early Augustine and the later Augustine. The early Augustine had synergistic views, as did Anselm. Do you want me to quote them with references, as I'm not making this up?

    However, what's the point that you are trying to make?

    Oz
     
  13. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Of course not. That would be works-righteousness, placing the onus of salvation in the power and capacity of man. Grace being grace, however, must mean that the onus is on the saving power of Christ, who by His Means creates faith in us--not a mental assent to doctrine, but a saving, justifying faith. Such faith even the unlearned and the infant can have--according to the gracious work of Christ alone.

    Making such doctrinal minutia intrinsic to our eternal salvation ignores the whole point of what makes Grace Grace; and further draws focus away from Christ and His Cross toward ourselves and our ability.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  14. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    In fact, I'm not sure that this contrast of monergism vs synergism is helpful as it distorts the views of those who promote them. I just came across this interesting article online and I'll give a grab of it here:
    Is Ben making some valid points about possible misunderstandings that arise from this disjuncture?

    Sincerely, Oz
     
  15. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dictation never ceased because it was never started. There are records of God speaking in the scriptures, but much of the Bible is not direct prophetic proclamation. Inspiration is a valid concept, but that does not require dictation. The latter is a viewpoint only,
    never stated explicitly in the scriptures themselves.

    How the Canon came into being and why Revelation is the last book is another story.

    John
    NZ
     
  16. kevin mccue

    kevin mccue Guest

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    OzSpen: A synergistic view of salvation that is two or more agents (in this case the sinner and God) to effect the result of salvation is a false gospel or another gospel as Paul calls it in Gal 1:6-9 faith of this sort is not the "faith of God's elect" Titus 1:1 but rather a self conjured faith in the idol of imagined free-will, producing no salvation but eternal damnation
     
  17. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    You are not reading what I wrote to ViaCrucis.

    You are onto the same line towards my perspective that caused your post and mine to be deleted. The gracious response of ViaCrucis is contrary to the direction in which you are going again and I will not be replying to you again as your content is bordering on flaming again. ViaCrucis wrote:
    Oz
     
  18. Godcreatedsteve

    Godcreatedsteve Member

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    Joh 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

    Jesus is the living Word: "I am the way, the truth, and the life." If Jesus is in your heart, then you know the way. If he is not really in your heart, if you have become a legalist/fundamentalist instead, then the Bible profits you nothing.

    Rabbi Eleazar b. Azariah, a leader of the Jewish diaspora after the destruction of the Temple by the Romans, explained why his interpretations of scripture did not always align with previous interpretations. “Just as a plant grows and increases, so the words of Torah grow and increase.” The word of God is not a lifeless document; it’s much more than just words on a page. “The word of God is living, and active.” (Heb 4:12 RV) The word of God grows in pace with our understanding of what is fair and just. Moreover, it is precisely in those areas where we struggle to understand and reconcile scripture that new growth is destined to occur. Issues like women’s rights, slavery, and homosexuality, are not only issues that tend to divide us; they’re fresh opportunities for God to accomplish something new in our hearts and in our churches. Growth is often a painful process, though it’s absolutely necessary if we are to remain faithful to His word and grow together in His love.

    The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking the law by healing on the Sabbath, associating with sinners, and disregarding the laws concerning ritual purity. He often interpreted the scriptures, spoke and behaved in ways that shocked his contemporaries. He answered their objections by comparing the Gospel message to new wine. “No man putteth new wine into old wineskins; else the new wine will burst the skins, and itself will be spilled, and the skins will perish. But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins.” (Luk 5:37-38 RV)

    The new wine is the message of the Gospel and the wineskins are Christians today. The Gospel is always new because it was intended to bring new hope into our life, and especially to those who are poor or oppressed. (Luk 4:18) The only way that Christians can remain faithful to the Gospel message is through our willingness to grow in our understanding of God’s Word, to expand our help for the poor as well as the rights of those still oppressed, and to increase in our love for one another. However, if - like old wineskins - we’ve become so rigid in our views that we no longer have the same flexibility, the Gospel message is lost because there was no room in our heart or in our life for it to grow, and as Christians we can perish without ever having made a real difference.
     
  19. Hishandmaiden

    Hishandmaiden The Humble Servant Supporter

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    I think God sealed up the bible for a purpose. In the last days, false prophets and false teachers and the anti-christ will spring up. If the bible is not sealed up, wrong teachings can and will creep into the church.
     
  20. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

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    Here Daniel says this...

    Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

    Shows the words are closed up and sealed here

    Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

    Now here

    Jesus speaks to whoso readeth now (He references Daniel who heard but he (Daniel) did not understand) is followed (now) by Jesus to " let him understand" (which is to the reader)

    Mark 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

    Again here...

    Blessed is he that readeth

    Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

    Contrary to the words being sealed up (as shown in Daniel)

    Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

    Then (ofcourse) adding to the prophecy of the book is adressed, so theres a consistency there
     
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