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Did God Make Egyptians Sick?

Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by LinkH, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Well you can to deeper but you wont want to.. did not God say "my plagues". God has plagues? It has yet has not changed. Well what ever happened to them or happens to you or me WE did it not God. God ALWAYS makes a way out its when we do not pick Him we open the door to what comes. The bible is GODS HOLY word. Yet there is wow TONS that are left out. If to John everything Jesus did if it was wrote about there would not be enough books to write.. what can we say about the OT?

    Adam and Eve I hread this man say God never talked to Eve. Well if you read what is just written then he is 100% right. But we have NO CLUE how much TIME that I am guessing never started till they fell had went by. So what I am saying is ..its not all there. Everything moment every word. We have ONLY what we need for us here now.

    LinkH.. does not happen every time and MAN I PRAY IT DID! That is.. ask Him. No really ask Him from your heart. Did not Jesus say.. ask the Father anything in my name? Did not Jesus say what ever you desire? Is it not written if we KNOW He hears us we have the petitions we prayed for? Ask Him. What you will see and find is this LOVE we see from Christ.. has always been there. He has never changed.
     
  2. VanillaSunflowers

    VanillaSunflowers Black Lives Don't Matter More Than Any Other Life

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    I think the reason this thread exists is to posit the question in our own minds and therein answer it as we feel the scriptures afford us the ability to.

    In essence I read it as, when God, Jesus, are our role models, and Jesus ministry taught to love our enemies. When he said, if someone tries to rob your purse give them your cloak also, then we hearken back to the OT where God himself killed his enemies, or had the Hebrews do it at his behest, we have to take it all in context when the role model issue arises. God sent Moses to plead for release of the Hebrews from Pharaohs custody after God had hardened Pharaohs heart so that he would not do so, and then God punished all Egyptians with plagues of his own because Pharaoh in his God hardened heart refused.
    How then is the parable afforded concerning love our enemies when God did not? How are the role model scriptures delivered when God is to be our role model and if so should not be one that is a , do as I command, not as I do, model for the role Jesus taught concerning loving our enemies.
     
  3. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    First, He's not a role model, we can never be like Him. He's the creator of life and of all things. All life belongs to Him to give and take as he sees fit. That is a huge major difference between Him and us in that regard. He can do whatever He wants, whenever he wants to do it, concerning our breathing this air and has every right to do so.

    Second, the Egyptians weren't His enemy. You and I were His enemy. We love our enemies because He first loved us, His enemy. If we want a role model, we should look into our mirrors and marvel that we are not in hell, where we most assuredly belong.
     
  4. VanillaSunflowers

    VanillaSunflowers Black Lives Don't Matter More Than Any Other Life

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    You're unaware then of the scriptures wherein Jesus speaks of himself as a role model for us.
    Do you realize you're describing maltheism there and not Christianity?

    No, the Egyptians were his enemy.
    I've lived a long time and I've never read someone that think so little of themselves and knows so little about the scriptures to prove it.
     
  5. Uber Genius

    Uber Genius "Super Genius"

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    So the problem here is the context of your statement, some preacher say "God doesn't make people sick."

    Person 1 come to their pastor and says, "Pastor, I have the cancer, did God give me this?"

    The pastor says, " No God doesn't make people sick, but sometime allow evil and suffering, sickness and disease."

    Person 1 says for the past 40 years I have kept slaves and they build all of my buildings on my compound. And for the previous four hundred years my family has been sacrificing our children to molech or bael and we have murdered and enslaved the poor and needy.

    The pastor says, " I may have to revise my earlier statement."

    So what is confusing you is that you are taking God's general will in modern times and making it an ironclad rule and saying, Look this is obviously not true."

    These types of misrepresentations are called strawman fallacies. Because unlike fight with a regular man, straw men are easily defeated.

    Hope this helps.
     
  6. LinkH

    LinkH Regular Member

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    Uber Genius,

    The pastor in your analogy should not make up things about what God does or does not do. We should be very careful about such statements. If he knew His Bibl well enough, He'd know that God made the Egyptians sick and know about Herod's illness, Elymas going blind, and various other passages. I Corinthians 15 indicates that it is a bad thing to be a false witness of God.
     
  7. hislegacy

    hislegacy A child at 20 weeks

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    Jesus said in

    Mark 3:22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,” and, “By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.”

    23 So He called them to Himself and said to them in parables: “How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end.
    Here Jesus was accused of driving our Demond's and healing by 'the ruler of the demons'.

    Jesus clearly said how can Satan cast out satan. If he did, his kingdom is divided and cannot stand.

    So I have to ask - if God causes the sickness, then heals what He caused. Is His kingdom not divided?

    I don't want reasoning here, I want scriptural proof. Please and thank you.
     
  8. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    If scriptural proof is what you want, I think you first need to provide scriptural proof that such an act is a division of His Kingdom. Your verses provided don't do that. They are a proof of concept only, but you have yet to prove the concept in this case, you only assume it.
     
  9. hislegacy

    hislegacy A child at 20 weeks

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    I can't add to what Jesus plainly said.
     
  10. LinkH

    LinkH Regular Member

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    Sickness and demons are not the same thing. God and demons aren't the same kind of being. You've got am apples and oranges type analogy.

    We know that the LORD put sickness on the Egyptians because He said that He did in the Bible. The Bible also gives Him credit for blowing the waters of the Red Sea on the Egyptians. There are also cases like Ananias and Saphira dying, Herod dying after an angel smote him, Paul being struck blind, and Elymas being struck blind.

    There is Exodus 4:11
    "Then the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?"
    (ESV)

    Before Satan made Job sick, had had to ask the Lord's permission.
     
  11. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    No, you can't, but you can add to your misapplication of what He plainly said.

    Jesus was speaking about satanic entities casting out other satanic entities, but this thread is not. If I were to say, "A father sometimes punishes his children, and he sometimes comforts his children when they are hurting." Would you then apply those verses and claim that household is divided against itself?
     
  12. hislegacy

    hislegacy A child at 20 weeks

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    I am a father of six. If one of my children misbehaves and I punish him by injecting him with AIDS and then does nothing to heal him until I think he has learned his lesson

    Am I a good father?
     
  13. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Redirect much?

    I'll ask again. If I were to say, "A father sometimes punishes his children, and he sometimes comforts his children when they are hurting." Would you then apply those verses and claim that household is divided against itself?
     
  14. hislegacy

    hislegacy A child at 20 weeks

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    Not a redirect at all - define punish.

    I punish my children at times - occasionally it is a rebuke or correction, sometimes a loss of privileges. When they were very young, they got the paddle now and then.

    Not once did I ever do anything that would cause them to be sick or wounded.

    So I will ask again - if I as a natural father purposely caused injury or sickness to one of my children to punish them. Am I a good father?

    It's a fair question and needed for answering your question.
     
  15. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Sure, here's punishment...
    2 Samuel 24:11-15

    And when David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, “Go and say to David, ‘Thus says the Lord, Three things I offer you. Choose one of them, that I may do it to you.’” So Gad came to David and told him, and said to him, “Shall three years of famine come to you in your land? Or will you flee three months before your foes while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days' pestilence in your land? Now consider, and decide what answer I shall return to him who sent me.” Then David said to Gad, “I am in great distress. Let us fall into the hand of the Lord, for his mercy is great; but let me not fall into the hand of man.”​

    So the Lord sent a pestilence on Israel from the morning until the appointed time. And there died of the people from Dan to Beersheba 70,000 men.

    Oh look. David is being punished for taking a census. The Lord offered 3 options as punishment saying that He will do it to them. He didn't say He'd allow Satan to do it, or He'll lift his protection or any of the sort. The Lord stated specifically that He, Himself, would do it, and 70,000 people died when He carried out His punishment.

    You answer your own question, is He a good Father or not? And then answer mine.
     
  16. hislegacy

    hislegacy A child at 20 weeks

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    I asked first, why can't you answer this? Why are you avoiding it?
     
  17. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Because you don't understand yet the ridiculousness of your question. It's a category fail. You are attempting to hold God to the standards of man. He's not man, therefore your question to constrain Him to the morality of men is absurd. You might as well be asking someone what's their favorite flavor of triangle.
     
  18. hislegacy

    hislegacy A child at 20 weeks

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    Perhaps I should give back my Masters in Theology then.

    Are you honestly saying God is Holy and therefore punishes with sickness?

    Well then why pray to be healed? If it is Gods will for you to be sick, why would you pray for something against His will?
     
  19. LinkH

    LinkH Regular Member

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    Another question to consider is whether the pagan Egyptians were children of God.
     
  20. LinkH

    LinkH Regular Member

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    As far as the other questions go, let's believe the Bible and then try to figure out the implications. God has power over life and death. He told us 'Do not murder.' Our rights and His rights are different. Us human fathers are just men. But God is also the Creator and the Judge.

    Why don't we agree first that at least some sickness has been caused by God before we tackle the idea that God may allow some things.

    We could also consider that those who are in covenant. who have healing as a part of the covenant, may not be in the same situation as those who are not in covenant with God.
     
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