Did God institute High Priests, Baptism, Eucharist, Papacy?

[AnticipateHisComing]

THE CHURCH IN PHILADELPHIA

“These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Rev. 3:7).

In the letter to the church at Philadelphia we find many of the same phrases that were penned to the other six churches, so we must look a little closer to see what the Lord is really saying. Philadelphia is a great church to study for so many wonderful things are said about this church! The Greek word for Philadelphia is Philadelphos and its meaning is “one who loves his brother.”

In fact, not one negative thing is said about the church in Philadelphia! We can benefit from the positive things said about a church, and we can also benefit from the negative things said about a church. The fact is, the word of God is filled with great commendations, and also with great corrections, and we can profit by both. The scriptures are replete with people’s mistakes and people’s successes. God has never made it a practice to hide His servant’s mistakes as the leaders of this world are wont to do.

Some see the seven churches in Revelation as prophecy, representing future churches. Some go so far as to identifying the United States as this church. If the US was only so lucky. Regardless there are blessings to faithful churches.

The key of David speaks of he who has the “key” or the “authority” and “dominion” of the king of Israel. The king of Israel is the king of God’s called and chosen people!
The people of Israel in the Old Testament experienced great and mighty things. God called them, chose them, and made them a great nation in the earth. The hand of God was upon them in favor and blessing so long as they loved, honored, obeyed, and served Him; but when they departed from the Lord and did wickedness, in faithfulness He judged and corrected them.

The true application of this “key of David” is to the government of Christ. In Christ God is bringing forth a new man, a new ministry, a new order, a new authority, a new rule and government that has concern, respect, and honor for the kingdom of God. A key is being cut and formed and prepared to administer the kingdom of God in all the earth!
Our Lord has that key on His shoulder, for the government is upon His shoulder (Isa. 9:6), and the shoulder is the point where the weight of the kingdom rests upon the body of Christ. Notice that God told Eliakim that He would lay the key of the house of David “upon his shoulder.” The Hebrew word translated shoulder in this verse indicates the area where burdens are placed.

I can not fathom how some think that Jesus with the Holy Spirit needs to relay on some earthly organization to effect his will.

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

 

[Bible2+]

AnticipateHisComing said in post #281:

Some see the seven churches in Revelation as prophecy, representing future churches.

But note that the 7 letters to 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to 7, literal, 1st century AD local church congregations in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) (what's today western Turkey).

Similarly, the letters of the New Testament books of Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians were sent to literal, 1st century AD local church congregations in 7 places in the Roman empire.

And note that just as nothing requires this latter set of letters addresses "seven church ages", so nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the former set does.

Also, the entire Bible is profitable for Christians (2 Timothy 3:16). So they can learn lessons for their own lives today by reading all these letters.

AnticipateHisComing said in post #281:

I can not fathom how some think that Jesus with the Holy Spirit needs to relay on some earthly organization to effect his will.

Note that He can choose to effect His will through the earthly organizations of His Church. For:

Ephesians 4:11 . . . he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

For the edification of the Church, God gives it not only pastors, teachers and evangelists (Ephesians 4:11-12), but also prophets (Ephesians 4:11), tongues-speakers and tongues-interpreters (1 Corinthians 14:4-5,12-13,26-31), and also those who are able to give miraculous words of knowledge and wisdom (1 Corinthians 12:8).

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

But note that the 7 letters to 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to 7, literal, 1st century AD local church congregations in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) (what's today western Turkey).

Similarly, the letters of the New Testament books of Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians were sent to literal, 1st century AD local church congregations in 7 places in the Roman empire.

I certainly agree that there were literal churches being written to.

Also, the entire Bible is profitable for Christians (2 Timothy 3:16). So they can learn lessons for their own lives today by reading all these letters.

And as history repeats itself, since the churches in Turkey are gone, maybe one of the churches can be reborn elsewhere.

Note that He can choose to effect His will through the earthly organizations of His Church. For:

I guess I was thinking of a larger organization above what you described, such as the dream of a single visible church organization over all Christians. I have no doubt that various churches effect the mission commanded by Jesus with the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Again you wish to promote a nonstandard definition. You do so to get out of addressing the question.

From Google:
Christian, a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

Would you care to address the question again. Try this instead of Christian, how about the elect or those that will be saved on judgement day.

If the Church is of all the elect, don't you say they can come from all different denominations of visible churches?


I am just trying to get you to clarify this statement of yours.

How is it that we come to a new definition? Adding a new word to the Christian vocabulary? What are we told about adding and taking away from the faith once delivered?

Changing terms does not change the mold. If a group, by any name, or individual for that matter, holds to something other than what the ancient core of Christians believed, how do we call it by the same name and not call it theft?

Lets go from the beginning. Something scriptural.

ACTS 15

Those men who came into Antioch and said that the Christians there needed to be circumcised before they could be saved... after the judgement was made clear in by council... were they still considered part of The Christian Church and just another denomination? Or... is what they were teaching outside The Church?

BTW ~ Matthew, Mark and Luke tell us that The Church is not invisible.

Luke 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with avessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on acandlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

Forgive me...

 

[Root of Jesse]

If you only put as much effort into finding the origin of Pope which is the equal answer to your question of words not found in the Bible.


A denomination is a church or organization that follows the core beliefs but has some differences of teachings. In the NT there are multiple examples of people still considered followers of the way, but having different teachings. Specifically Revelation points out certain churches following some incorrect teachings. Note, they are still considered part of the "one Church" even though they have different earthly shepherds.

Now, of utmost importance is for you to learn the meaning of "the Church". This is not the first time that I have had to explain this to RC's. For some reason they are inclined to speak as if the one Church was the RCC. Now when you learn the true meaning of the Church, you will realize that all Christians are brothers in the one Church of Jesus and that the promise of wherever two or three gather in his name, he will be with them. And, when Jesus is there, he is shepherding and sending the Holy Spirit to help them.

The Church is the body of all Christians, so that includes your lamented Protestants. It is not a visible grouping. Here have a look at the official doctrine of your church for what the Church is.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText


Lastly, about your desire for unity in the Church. I pray that you learn that all Christians are already one with Jesus. There is no huge doctrine test to gain this membership. I very much hope you to not wish to glorify the visible church and place a greater importance on it. That would be a very bad day for there to be only one visible church in this age. It would be the apocalyptic ending of the world.

I wonder how you can be Christian but have a difference in the way you practice.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Having the keys certainly does give one authority. If you read my posts, you would see I profess that. Do you understand that there are different keys in God's kingdom? Do you understand that Jesus listed exactly what authority was given in keys given? That authority was to "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Jesus also gave the authority to forgive sins. Now read more than one verse in scripture to learn of others given the same authority.

There is no promotion of Peter to be above the other apostles in the one verse of scripture. Further Peter acknowledge himself to being just one shepherd of many all under Jesus, the Chief Shepherd.

The Pope, also, is not above the other bishops. He's the greatest among equals. But he is responsible for the entire Church as the Vicar of the Chief Shepherd.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Well, let's look at in a more historical context........

The Church Fathers’ Interpretation of the Rock of Matthew 16:18:An Historical Refutation of the Claims of Roman Catholicism
The Church Fathers’ Interpretation of the Rock of Matthew 16:18:
An Historical Refutation of the Claims of Roman Catholicism

Matthew 16:18 is the critical passage of Scripture for the establishment of the authority claims of the Roman Catholic Church. It is upon the interpretation of the rock and keys that the entire structure of the Church of Rome rests. And Vatican I plainly states that its interpretation of Matthew 16 is that which has been held by the Church from the very beginning and is therefore not a doctrinal development............

Roman Catholic apologists, in an effort to substantiate the claims of Vatican I, make appeals to certain statements of Church fathers which they claim give unequivocal and unambiguous evidence of a belief in papal primacy in the early Church. Briefly, the arguments can be summarized as follows:......

An examination of the writings of the fathers does reveal the expression of a consistent viewpoint, but it is not that of the Roman Catholic Church, as the documentation of the major fathers of the East and West in this article will demonstrate. This particular article is strictly historical in nature. Its purpose is to document the patristic interpretation of the rock of Matthew 16:18. And the evidence will demonstrate that the Protestant and Orthodox understanding of the text is rooted in this patristic consensus. From a strictly scriptural point of view, the Roman Catholic interpretation of Matthew 16:18 is divorced from its proper biblical context.

The Roman Church states that Matthew 16 teaches that the Church is built upon Peter and therefore upon the bishops of Rome in an exclusive sense. What is seldom ever mentioned is the fact that Ephesians 2:20 uses precisely the same language as that found in Matthew 16 when it says the Church is built upon the apostles and prophets with Christ as the cornerstone...........

.................................

I don't see any direct quotes of what the Church Fathers said...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Pope, also, is not above the other bishops. He's the greatest among equals.
But he is responsible for the entire Church as the Vicar of the Chief Shepherd.

May the Chief Shepherd return soon!

1Peter 5:4
And of being made manifest the Chief-Shepherd/arci-poimenoV <750>,
ye shall be being requitted the unfading crown of the glory
Reve 2:27
And He shall be sherpherding/poimanei <4165> (5692) them in rod iron, as the instruments, the pottery, is being crushed, as I have gotten beside the Father of Me.
Reve 12:5
And she brought forth a Son, a male, Who is about to be shepherding/poimainein <4165> (5721) all the Nations in rod/staff, iron.
And is caught-away the child of her toward the God, and toward the throne of Him.
Reve 19:
11
And I perceived the heaven having be opened and behold! A white horse
and the One sitting on it being called Faithful and True, and in justice He is judging and is battling.
15
And out of the mouth of Him is issuing-out a sharp sword, that in it He should be smiting the Nations, and He shall be shepherding/poimanei <4165> (5692) them in rod iron
and He is treading the trough of the wine of the fury of the God, the Almighty.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Search Wikipedia Encyclopedia:
Vicar of Christ - Wikipedia

Vicar of Christ (from Latin Vicarius Christi) is the term used in different ways, with different theological connotations throughout history. As the original notion a vicar is of "earthly representative of Christ" but also used in sense of "person acting as parish priest in place of a real person"[1] The title is now used in Catholicism to refer to the bishops[2] and more specifically to the Bishop of Rome (the pope).[3]

Use for the Popes
Christ's Charge to Peter by Raphael, 1515. Catholics believe that in telling Peter to feed his sheep, Christ was entrusting to the papacy the responsibility of caring for the Church.
The third use of the term Vicar of Christ appears in the 5th century, in a synod of bishops to refer to Pope Gelasius I. The theological connotations of the title got a pastoral sense, evoking the words of Christ to the Apostle Peter, regarded by the first Catholic Pope in John 21:16-17, "Feed my lambs... Feed my sheep", so Christ made Peter his vicar and pastor with the responsibility to feed his flock (i.e. the Church) in his own place.[3]

However, the use of the title to refer to the popes in the early Church was unstable, and several variants of the use of Vicar were used for the Pope, as "Vicar of Peter", indicating that they were the successors of St. Peter, "Vicar of the Prince of the Apostles" or "Vicar of the Apostolic See",[3] among other variants. This title is used by the Roman Missal in their prayers for a dead pope,[9] and the oath of allegiance to St. Boniface to Pope Gregory II.[10] Since 1200, Popes have consistently used this title.[11] Insisting that he - and he alone - had the right to remove bishops from office, Pope Innocent III appealed to the title of Vicar of Christ. (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep.")[3] Occasionally, Popes like Nicholas III used "Vicar of God" as an equivalent title)[3] The 2012 edition of the Annuario Pontificio gives "Vicar of Jesus Christ" as the second official title of the Pope (the first being "Bishop of Rome")....................................

Christ's Charge to Peter by Raphael, 1515. Catholics believe that in telling Peter to feed his sheep, Christ was entrusting to the papacy the responsibility of caring for the Church.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

AnticipateHisComing said: ↑
If you only put as much effort into finding the origin of Pope which is the equal answer to your question of words not found in the Bible....

I wonder how you can be Christian but have a difference in the way you practice.

That wasn't very Christian of you to say that.

1Pe 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.[fn]

.......................................

 

[Root of Jesse]

That wasn't very Christian of you to say that.

1Pe 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.[fn]

.......................................

Not at all. Jesus gave us one Church, one Faith, one Baptism. We should all adhere to it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Not at all. Jesus gave us one Church, one Faith, one Baptism. We should all adhere to it.

I totally agree. When are you going to renounce your denomination and join God's True Church?

 

[Root of Jesse]

I totally agree. When are you going to renounce your denomination and join God's True Church?

I don't belong to a denomination. Jesus didn't create any denominations. He created His Church. No need for me to renounce anything when I'm already in adherence, in my own imperfect way, to His Call.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don't belong to a denomination. Jesus didn't create any denominations. He created His Church. No need for me to renounce anything when I'm already in adherence, in my own imperfect way, to His Call.

Good for you! I assume you credit me for the same.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Good for you! I assume you credit me for the same.

Yes, we do, in fact. I believe that nobody lives as Christ wants us to, but I also believe that we have the fullness of the faith, and that your understanding is not as full as ours.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, we do, in fact. I believe that nobody lives as Christ wants us to, but I also believe that we have the fullness of the faith, and that your understanding is not as full as ours.

Fair enough. Time will tell whose glass is half empty and whose is half full.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes, we do, in fact. I believe that nobody lives as Christ wants us to, but I also believe that we have the fullness of the faith, and that your understanding is not as full as ours.

The EOC disagrees with thee:

The True Christ: POPE CALLS ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS DEFECTIVE

Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches...........

The Pope says that the Orthodox Churches are indeed "churches" and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and truth."
But, he said, they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the Pope – and are defective causing them harm.

Papal primacy with its inane self-proclamation of infallibility is a damaging heresy which wages war against the true Church, and it has been waging this war for a thousand years. The Pope proclaims to the world that the Papacy is the Church that Christ founded on earth..............

 

[Root of Jesse]

The EOC disagrees with thee:

The True Christ: POPE CALLS ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS DEFECTIVE

Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches...........

The Pope says that the Orthodox Churches are indeed "churches" and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and truth."
But, he said, they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the Pope – and are defective causing them harm.

Papal primacy with its inane self-proclamation of infallibility is a damaging heresy which wages war against the true Church, and it has been waging this war for a thousand years. The Pope proclaims to the world that the Papacy is the Church that Christ founded on earth..............

OK, and???

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

How is it that we come to a new definition? Adding a new word to the Christian vocabulary? What are we told about adding and taking away from the faith once delivered?

You wish to argue the origin of words instead of answer a question or defend what you said. BTW, it is not adding or taking away from faith when the meaning of words in a language change. If so, all would still be using the KJV.

I reworded the question,

If the Church is of all the elect, don't you say they can come from all different denominations of visible churches?

But you refuse to address it. I must assume because your answer would disagree with a previous statement.

While I agree that there are no denominations within The Church.

BTW ~ Matthew, Mark and Luke tell us that The Church is not invisible.

Luke 8:16 No man

Read the first two words of your quoted scripture. Note the difference between man and Church. A man may be a member of the Church and certainly one with the Holy Spirit should let the light shine and be visible.

The Church is the membership of the reborn/saved. It is not an earthly bureaucratic organization, but it is made up of visible churches that have visible bureaucratic organizations. If you think the Church visible, then tell me how many people you know are in it. How many names could you name. When you go walking down the street, can you tell me who is saved and who is not? You can't because only God knows this. But when Jesus comes again and all are caught up with him, it will be visible.

 

[Bible2+]

AnticipateHisComing said in post #298:

The Church is the membership of the reborn/saved.

Amen. For:

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

This means all people with the one faith in Jesus Christ, including Old Testament believers (John 8:56, Hebrews 11:24-26), and including both Jewish and Gentile Christians (1 Corinthians 12:13), are now part of the one New Covenant/New Testament body of Christ (Ephesians 4:4-9, Hebrews 12:23-24), the Church (Colossians 1:18).

And the Gospel of our salvation (Ephesians 1:13) is we can be initially saved by believing Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36; 1 John 2:23) and that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the 3rd day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

And the Gospel is we can be ultimately saved if we continue to believe this to the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23), and continue to perform good works of faith to the end (Romans 2:6-8; 1 Thessalonians 1:3), and repent from any sin we commit (Hebrews 10:26-29), and get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus Christ (Mark 16:16, Romans 6:3-11), and partake of Jesus' divine flesh and blood in the bread and wine of Communion (John 6:53; 1 Corinthians 11:23-30), and forgive everyone for everything (Matthew 6:14-15), and do all we can (Romans 12:18) to make reparations to and peace with everyone whom we've ever wronged (Matthew 5:23-26), and help Christians in need (Matthew 25:34-46), and provide for our families (1 Timothy 5:8), and don't blaspheme God's Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29), and don't remove words from the book of Revelation (Revelation 22:19), and don't worship the future Antichrist or his image or willingly receive his mark (Revelation 14:9-12), and continue in God's goodness to the end (Romans 11:22), and overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26).

 

[bbbbbbb]

Amen. For:

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

This means all people with the one faith in Jesus Christ, including Old Testament believers (John 8:56, Hebrews 11:24-26), and including both Jewish and Gentile Christians (1 Corinthians 12:13), are now part of the one New Covenant/New Testament body of Christ (Ephesians 4:4-9, Hebrews 12:23-24), the Church (Colossians 1:18).

And the Gospel of our salvation (Ephesians 1:13) is we can be initially saved by believing Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36; 1 John 2:23) and that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the 3rd day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

And the Gospel is we can be ultimately saved if we continue to believe this to the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23), and continue to perform good works of faith to the end (Romans 2:6-8; 1 Thessalonians 1:3), and repent from any sin we commit (Hebrews 10:26-29), and get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus Christ (Mark 16:16, Romans 6:3-11), and partake of Jesus' divine flesh and blood in the bread and wine of Communion (John 6:53; 1 Corinthians 11:23-30), and forgive everyone for everything (Matthew 6:14-15), and do all we can (Romans 12:18) to make reparations to and peace with everyone whom we've ever wronged (Matthew 5:23-26), and help Christians in need (Matthew 25:34-46), and provide for our families (1 Timothy 5:8), and don't blaspheme God's Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29), and don't remove words from the book of Revelation (Revelation 22:19), and don't worship the future Antichrist or his image or willingly receive his mark (Revelation 14:9-12), and continue in God's goodness to the end (Romans 11:22), and overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26).

How many sins does it take for a Christian to be lost in hell forever?