Did God institute High Priests, Baptism, Eucharist, Papacy?

David Kent

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If you believe all that you will believe anything.

Father Chiniquy described how the consecrated host was dropped into a baby's potty, What sort of god was it that could be drowned in such a way.
 
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kepha31

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If you believe all that you will believe anything.

Father Chiniquy described how the consecrated host was dropped into a baby's potty, What sort of god was it that could be drowned in such a way.
In 1885, a former Catholic priest, Charles Chiniquy, wrote a book titled Fifty Years in the Church of Rome in which he made many scandalous allegations against the Catholic Church, including the accusation that the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln in 1865 had been the result of a conspiracy by the Catholic Church, and that the assassin John Wilkes Booth was a Catholic who had been corrupted and led by the Vatican to commit the murder.

Chiniquy, who had been excommunicated by the Catholic Church in 1858, claimed that "emissaries of the Pope" had promised Booth "a crown of glory in heaven" for the killing of Lincoln. According to Chiniquy, the assassination was perpetrated by the Church in revenge for Lincoln's defense of Chiniquy in a 1856 lawsuit...
...it gets worse

Chiniquy's writings are still widely distributed and promoted, in books and on webpages. The goal of this website is to provide factual information concerning Charles Chiniquy and his allegations against the Catholic Church...
WHO WAS CHARLES CHINIQUY: Facts Versus Falsehood on this anti-Catholic preacher
 
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fide

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Why does Christ coming as a man mean we can't have women clergy?

Christ came as the new "Adam" in the sense that He began a new creation in humanity - a new, redeemed and holy humanity. He is also the "last" Adam, as God has planned only two "generations" of men- the first, from Adam, which would fall into sin; and the second and last, who would rise in Christ.
1Cor 15:45 Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

The priests of the Church have the ordained authority to celebrate the sacrifice of the Mass, in which the priest repeats the words of Jesus, by His command (when He said, "Do this in remembrance of Me"), "This is My Body", and "This is My Blood..." A woman cannot obey that command; she cannot say "This is My Body" in the person of Christ. Thus the priest stands "in persona christi capitas" when he celebrates Holy Mass. Thus the Church says, simply, that she does not have the authority - in herself - to give this authority to woman. She - the Church - only has the command to obey it as given.

Thus Christ is the 2nd and last Adam. Adam was the progenitor by flesh of the first generation of men; Christ the progenitor by Spirit of the second and last generation of men - those born again by the Spirit into His death and resurrection.

And priests stand in His place. Mary, by the way, was recognized early in Church history as - parallel to Christ the new Adam - as Mary the new Eve: the new mother of the new humanity in Christ. This role of Mary in God's work of the new creation in Christ is thus foundational to the Marian devotion in the Church.
 
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Monk Brendan

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In Revelation 11:8 and Revelation 16:19a the great city is Jerusalem, where Jesus Christ was crucified. But in Revelation 21:10 the great city is New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven. And in Revelation 14:8, Revelation 17:18 and Revelation 18:10-21 the great city is the symbolic harlot/city of Babylon. When it's destroyed, it will be found no more at all (Revelation 18:21), forever (Revelation 19:3), unlike Jerusalem, which was found again after its only-temporary destruction in 70 AD.

In other words, there are two or more Jerusalems, and we have to listen to the Holy Spirit to know which one to use at the proper point in Scripture?

Well, let's just take a look. The distance between Rome and Jerusalem is 4,102.3 km. Jesus was crucified in one, and the other is the harlot of Babylon, correct? Well, that can't be right, because Rome is not as important as it was in 90 A.D.
 
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thecolorsblend

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If you believe all that you will believe anything.
Eucharistic miracles have been known to happen when least expected. I'm keeping an open mind on this one.
 
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dreadnought

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Christ came as the new "Adam" in the sense that He began a new creation in humanity - a new, redeemed and holy humanity. He is also the "last" Adam, as God has planned only two "generations" of men- the first, from Adam, which would fall into sin; and the second and last, who would rise in Christ.
1Cor 15:45 Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

The priests of the Church have the ordained authority to celebrate the sacrifice of the Mass, in which the priest repeats the words of Jesus, by His command (when He said, "Do this in remembrance of Me"), "This is My Body", and "This is My Blood..." A woman cannot obey that command; she cannot say "This is My Body" in the person of Christ. Thus the priest stands "in persona christi capitas" when he celebrates Holy Mass. Thus the Church says, simply, that she does not have the authority - in herself - to give this authority to woman. She - the Church - only has the command to obey it as given.

Thus Christ is the 2nd and last Adam. Adam was the progenitor by flesh of the first generation of men; Christ the progenitor by Spirit of the second and last generation of men - those born again by the Spirit into His death and resurrection.

And priests stand in His place. Mary, by the way, was recognized early in Church history as - parallel to Christ the new Adam - as Mary the new Eve: the new mother of the new humanity in Christ. This role of Mary in God's work of the new creation in Christ is thus foundational to the Marian devotion in the Church.
I disagree with your premise that Christ came as the new Adam, but even if he did, what does that have to do with women being part of the clergy?
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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I disagree with your premise that Christ came as the new Adam...

It is a common theme in all the Apostolic Churches. The early catechisms of the Church taught Genesis from the Christian point of view.

Forgive me...
 
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dreadnought

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It is a common theme in all the Apostolic Churches. The early catechisms of the Church taught Genesis from the Christian point of view.

Forgive me...
Are themes necessary? "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
 
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fide

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I disagree with your premise that Christ came as the new Adam, but even if he did, what does that have to do with women being part of the clergy?

As I wrote in the same post you just quoted, which answers your present question:

The priests of the Church have the ordained authority to celebrate the sacrifice of the Mass, in which the priest repeats the words of Jesus, by His command (when He said, "Do this in remembrance of Me"), "This is My Body", and "This is My Blood..." A woman cannot obey that command; she cannot say "This is My Body" in the person of Christ. Thus the priest stands "in persona christi capitas" when he celebrates Holy Mass. Thus the Church says, simply, that she does not have the authority - in herself - to give this authority to woman. She - the Church - only has the command to obey it as given.
Is this unclear? Please explain what, exactly, is not clear to you. Does this not answer your question, and does this not explain why a woman cannot do what the priests are commanded to do? A woman cannot say, "This is MY (Jesus's) Body" any more than she can say, "I am a man." She is not a man! She cannot say that she is.
 
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jaison jose

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If you believe all that you will believe anything.

Father Chiniquy described how the consecrated host was dropped into a baby's potty, What sort of god was it that could be drowned in such a way.
Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?" (1 Cor. 10:16). So when we receive Communion, we actually participate in the body and blood of Christ, not just eat symbols of them. Paul also said, "Therefore whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. . . . For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself" (1 Cor. 11:27, 29). "To answer for the body and blood" of someone meant to be guilty of a crime as serious as homicide. How could eating mere bread and wine "unworthily" be so serious? Paul’s comment makes sense only if the bread and wine became the real body and blood of Christ.
 
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fide

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I disagree with your premise that Christ came as the new Adam, but even if he did, what does that have to do with women being part of the clergy?

"... that Christ came as the new Adam" is not "my premise" - it is God the Holy Spirit speaking through St. Paul, in Holy Scripture:

1 Cor 15:21 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead came also through a human being.
22 For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life,
….
45 So, too, it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living being,” the last Adam a life-giving spirit.
46 But the spiritual was not first; rather the natural and then the spiritual.
47 The first man was from the earth, earthly; the second man, from heaven.
48 As was the earthly one, so also are the earthly, and as is the heavenly one, so also are the heavenly.
49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthly one, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly one.
 
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dreadnought

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As I wrote in the same post you just quoted, which answers your present question:

The priests of the Church have the ordained authority to celebrate the sacrifice of the Mass, in which the priest repeats the words of Jesus, by His command (when He said, "Do this in remembrance of Me"), "This is My Body", and "This is My Blood..." A woman cannot obey that command; she cannot say "This is My Body" in the person of Christ. Thus the priest stands "in persona christi capitas" when he celebrates Holy Mass. Thus the Church says, simply, that she does not have the authority - in herself - to give this authority to woman. She - the Church - only has the command to obey it as given.
Is this unclear? Please explain what, exactly, is not clear to you. Does this not answer your question, and does this not explain why a woman cannot do what the priests are commanded to do? A woman cannot say, "This is MY (Jesus's) Body" any more than she can say, "I am a man." She is not a man! She cannot say that she is.
I am an impatient, old man. I don't have the attention span to read long posts.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Are themes necessary? "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

The ones called Holy Traditions are the only ones important. These teachings are Apostolic. So yes. As necessary as obedience to Christ...

Mat 28:20 - Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Forgive me...
 
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dreadnought

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The ones called Holy Traditions are the only ones important. These teachings are Apostolic. So yes. As necessary as obedience to Christ...

Mat 28:20 - Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Forgive me...
I think we people have a way of making things more complicated than they really are.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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I think we people have a way of making things more complicated than they really are.
All of this stuff has already been hashed out by the professionals and The Holy Spirit. Councils et al.
One of my retired Priests used to say. "It's not rocket science."

It's all history.

Forgive me...
 
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fide

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Are themes necessary? "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Revealed Truth to mankind, from God the Son and from His Holy Spirit, is necessary. God has revealed much more than simply "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"! Right? Our mission, from Him, includes this:
Mt 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
 
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