Did God gather Israel in 1948? I think not

Dan Perez

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The survivors of the attack have already answered your question.

They want the people of the United States to know the truth about what happened that day.

The only people who should be put in an internment camp (prison) are those who gave the orders, and as you stated all of them are probably dead.


What did Christ say below about the truth?

Luk 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

.

And what truth is Christ talking about in Luke 12:2 ?

Most students believe that the New Covenant is for the Body of Christ , and Not so !

No verses that prove that , unless someone has a verse that I have missed ?

May refuse to believe , that Israel has been set aside , as written in 2 Cor 3:13-16 , or Luke 13:6-9 where Israel has NOT produced any Fruit and Isa 6:1-18 .

dan p
 
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BABerean2

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Most students believe that the New Covenant is for the Body of Christ , and Not so !

No verses that prove that , unless someone has a verse that I have missed ?

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


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Dan Perez

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2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


.
So , if we are under the NEW COVENANT , where is the verse that we as dispensationlist all missed .

#1 How are we saved today ?

#2 Does the New Covenant have a BODY of CHRIST ?

#3 Does the New Covenant Atonement ?

#4 Where are going to live as New Covenant people on EARTH or in HEAVEN ?

#5 Is there Water Baptism under the New Covenant ?

#6 Will there be a RAPTURE under the NEW Covenant ?

#7 Is there a JUDGEMENT SEAT of Christ in the New Covenant ? in 1 Cor 3:10?



#8 Or are we under the FOUNDATION in 1 n Peter 2:6 which Christ layed ?

dan p
 
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BABerean2

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So , if we are under the NEW COVENANT , where is the verse that we as dispensationlist all missed .

#1 How are we saved today ?

#2 Does the New Covenant have a BODY of CHRIST ?

#3 Does the New Covenant Atonement ?

#4 Where are going to live as New Covenant people on EARTH or in HEAVEN ?

#5 Is there Water Baptism under the New Covenant ?

#6 Will there be a RAPTURE under the NEW Covenant ?

#7 Is there a JUDGEMENT SEAT of Christ in the New Covenant ? in 1 Cor 3:10?



#8 Or are we under the FOUNDATION in 1 n Peter 2:6 which Christ layed ?

dan p


Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

(NKJV)

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Dan Perez

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Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

(NKJV)

.


And we use Heb 8:13 or use 1 Cor 11:26 , HOW are people saved under the NEW COVENANT ?

Is Eph 2:8 and Rom 10:9 and 10 out ,and forget them ??

dan p
 
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BABerean2

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HOW are people saved under the NEW COVENANT ?

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


.
 
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Dan Perez

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Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


.



.
Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


.
Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.


Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


.
And you are confusing and in Eph 2:8 , Paul says how to be saved , by GRACE , and how are they Israel saved by the NEW COVENANT ??

dan p
 
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BABerean2

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And you are confusing and in Eph 2:8 , Paul says how to be saved , by GRACE , and how are they Israel saved by the NEW COVENANT ??

dan p

Are you trying to say there are two different ways to be saved, based on a person's DNA?



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Dan Perez

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Are you trying to say there are two different ways to be saved, based on a person's DNA?



.

And Israel is ISRAEL and the BODY OF CHRIST is not Israel .

So one is saved by the NEW COVENANT and the BOC is saved by GRACE , Eph 2:8 they are not the same !!

SO THE QUESTION remains , how is Israel saved under the NEW COVENANT ?

dan p
 
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BABerean2

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And Israel is ISRAEL and the BODY OF CHRIST is not Israel .

So one is saved by the NEW COVENANT and the BOC is saved by GRACE , Eph 2:8 they are not the same !!

SO THE QUESTION remains , how is Israel saved under the NEW COVENANT ?

dan p


For some strange reason you failed to answer the question.

Which Israel in Romans 9:8 are you talking about? Israel of the flesh, or Israel of the promise?

Which Israel in Romans 11:1-5 are you talking about? Do you mean the faithful "remnant" or do you mean the Baal worshippers?


You seem to be unaware of how Peter addressed the crowd on the Day of Pentecost.
Let me refresh your memory.

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


Who was Peter talking to in the passage above, and why did he address them as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36?
On the Day of Pentecost about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ. The Gentiles were not grafted into the Church until several years later. What part of this fact do you not understand?

========================

Can you find the word "now" in the passage below which quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34 word-for-word?

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

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Buzzard3

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God knew Israel would be there, but I have not yet seen Scriptural evidence that it was a result of GOD gathering them. God does gather them after they repent. He will then destroy their enemies and etc. Can anyone make a case that God already gathered them in 1948?
The fact that the nation of Israel was reborn in the 1948 proves that you got it wrong and back-to-front ... evidently, God gathered them BEFORE they repent, not after.
 
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BABerean2

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The fact that the nation of Israel was reborn in the 1948 proves that you got it wrong and back-to-front ... evidently, God gathered them BEFORE they repent, not after.


Globalist banker Jacob Rothschild is one of the wealthiest people on the planet.
In the video below he discusses how his family created the modern State of Israel.
Rothschild does not once give the credit to God during this interview.



There are two different Israels in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5.

There is Israel of the "flesh", and there is Israel of the "promise", who are the faithful "remnant" found in Romans 9:27.


What is the spiritual condition of earthly Jerusalem in the passage below?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


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Dan Perez

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Globalist banker Jacob Rothschild is one of the wealthiest people on the planet.
In the video below he discusses how his family created the modern State of Israel.
Rothschild does not once give the credit to God during this interview.



There are two different Israels in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5.

There is Israel of the "flesh", and there is Israel of the "promise", who are the faithful "remnant" found in Romans 9:27.


What is the spiritual condition of earthly Jerusalem in the passage below?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


.


And you say that there 2 different Israel's and have you ever consider nthat there 2 different types of GENTILES , lost ONES and saved ONES !!

DAN P
 
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Buzzard3

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Globalist banker Jacob Rothschild is one of the wealthiest people on the planet.
In the video below he discusses how his family created the modern State of Israel.
Rothschild does not once give the credit to God during this interview.



There are two different Israels in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5.

There is Israel of the "flesh", and there is Israel of the "promise", who are the faithful "remnant" found in Romans 9:27.


What is the spiritual condition of earthly Jerusalem in the passage below?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


.
It doesn't matter how God recreated the nation of Israel in 1948. Are we to believe God will wipe this Israel off the map and rebuild it at a later date using more worthy Jews?
 
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BABerean2

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It doesn't matter how God recreated the nation of Israel in 1948. Are we to believe God will wipe this Israel off the map and rebuild it at a later date using more worthy Jews?


Who is Israel based on what the Bible says?

Are there two Israels in the Book of Romans ?


Romans 9:6-8


Romans 11:1-5


Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 10:16-18, Hebrews 12:18-24


Romans 2:28-29, 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11, Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9, Revelation 11:8


1. Who is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel found in Matthew 1:1, confirmed in Galatians 3:16?

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


2. How did Peter address the crowd on the Day of Pentecost when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ?

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


3. Did Paul describe two different Israels in the Book of Romans?

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


4. The New Covenant was promised to the House of Israel and the House of Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Does this now apply to the Church?


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


In the verses between these two (Hebrews 8:7-12) the author of the Book of Hebrews quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34 word-for-word. (New Cov. promise)


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.




Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, (Mount Sinai)



Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Pastor Chuck Baldwin reveals the difference between the Israel of God and the Israel of the Flesh. (See Romans 11:1-5)


.
 
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Buzzard3

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Who is Israel based on what the Bible says?

Are there two Israels in the Book of Romans ?
The NT speaks of both spiritual Israel (the Church) and physical Israel (the nation of Israel, of which Jerusalem is the capital ... and/or the Jewish race).

The "Israel" in Romans 11, for example, refers to the physical nation of Israel and/or the Jewish race.
 
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BABerean2

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The "Israel" in Romans 11, for example, refers to the physical nation of Israel and/or the Jewish race.

Romans 11 refers to Israel of the Flesh, and Israel of the Promise in Romans 11:1-5.

Paul is both in verse 1, and there is a faithful "remnant" of both in verse 5.

Paul uses the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of believing Israelite branches, and believing Gentile branches, grafted together into the same Olive Tree.

Paul said the branches broken off due to unbelief can be grafted back into the tree through faith in Christ in Romans 11:23-24.

There is no path to salvation outside of the Church found in the passage.

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BABerean2

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Who said Romans 11 suggests a path to salvation outside of the Church? Not me.

You might be surprised the number of people on this forum who claim modern Jews will be saved outside of the Church. Most are Dispensationalists who claim God will go back and deal with modern Israel under the Old Covenant system, after their Pre-Trib removal of the Church.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."

The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.

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