Did God determine his own nature?

[Tom 1]

Then there must be some factor external to God that determined his existence and nature. What is it?

What’s behind that assumption? Just curious as to what your thinking is

 

[Everybodyknows]

What’s behind that assumption? Just curious as to what your thinking is

Well originally I was thinking there are three possibilities.

1. God determined his own nature
2. Some factor outside of God determined his nature
3. There is no reason his nature is what it is. It's essentially just random.

One is obviously circular, so we may as well say God created himself. Two would mean that God exists in some spiritual realm and that he is subject to the laws of this realm. Three would mean that God didn't necessarily have to have the attributes he has and that there is no reason for his nature or existence.

 

[Tom 1]

Well originally I was thinking there are three possibilities.

1. God determined his own nature
2. Some factor outside of God determined his nature
3. There is no reason his nature is what it is. It's essentially just random.

One is obviously circular, so we may as well say God created himself. Two would mean that God exists in some spiritual realm and that he is subject to the laws of this realm. Three would mean that God didn't necessarily have to have the attributes he has and that there is no reason for his nature or existence.

It’s the contrast between this and the assertion in your post ‘most people agree....eternal’. If you accept that God is eternal then concepts involving any relation to time like ‘before’ or ‘after’ etc don’t apply. There is no before or after in eternity, there just is, and God ‘is’ in eternity, i.e his existence and nature are complete and absolute, not subject to the possibility of change or having been different at some point. He expresses different aspects of his nature in different ways, but these expressions are not differences in his nature, just different expressions of it. For your question to be applicable, God would need to be bound to time, to have had a beginning in time, and that is not the God of the bible.

 

[Everybodyknows]

It’s the contrast between this and the assertion in your post ‘most people agree....eternal’. If you accept that God is eternal then concepts involving any relation to time like ‘before’ or ‘after’ etc don’t apply. There is no before or after in eternity, there just is, and God ‘is’ in eternity, i.e his existence and nature are complete and absolute, not subject to the possibility of change or having been different at some point. He expresses different aspects of his nature in different ways, but these expressions are not differences in his nature, just different expressions of it. For your question to be applicable, God would need to be bound to time, to have had a beginning in time, and that is not the God of the bible.

I'm not thinking of God within time, nor am I saying that he changed in any way.
Answer me this question:
Is there a reason for God's Nature?

 

[Tom 1]

The only answer is God’s answer to Moses - ‘I am’. Reading through Job might fill that out a bit, particularly the later chapters, although it won’t necessarily give you a ready answer it might give you some additional perspective. I’d suggest praying for insight and understanding into this question; if you think about what you are asking, you are asking a bunch of people to explain something that only God can really give you an answer on. If you want a philosophical answer then you could say the reason for God’s nature is God, i.e because he is absolute in all of his qualities he can only be absolute in all of his qualities, e.g God is not just loving he is love, his love is absolute and cannot be anything other than absolute. If it were, then he would no longer be God.

 

[Everybodyknows]

The only answer is God’s answer to Moses - ‘I am’. Reading through Job might fill that out a bit, particularly the later chapters, although it won’t necessarily give you a ready answer it might give you some additional perspective. I’d suggest praying for insight and understanding into this question; if you think about what you are asking, you are asking a bunch of people to explain something that only God can really give you an answer on.

When I started the thread I hadn't really thought about it to hard. I didn't realise the philosophical can of worms I was opening. I think the answer is probably beyond human comprehension, but it's been interesting to see different views nonetheless.

If you want a philosophical answer then you could say the reason for God’s nature is God, i.e because he is absolute in all of his qualities he can only be absolute in all of his qualities, e.g God is not just loving he is love, his love is absolute and cannot be anything other than absolute. If it were, then he would no longer be God.

Are you essentially saying that God is self determining if the reason for his nature is within himself? Did you vote yes in the survey?

 

[Tom 1]

Are you essentially saying that God is self determining if the reason for his nature is within himself? Did you vote yes in the survey?

I don't think you can see this as self-determination. If God just is, and has never not been, then there was never any process of him becoming God.

 

[Everybodyknows]

I don't think you can see this as self-determination. If God just is, and has never not been, then there was never any process of him becoming God.

Yes ok, there is no process of him becoming God, that would mean he's not eternal. But logically if he is the reason for his own nature then he exists in an eternally perpetual state of self determinism. This would be option 1 from my post #162. Otherwise if he just is what he is because he has always been then that would be option 3.

 

[Tom 1]

Right, got you. Option 3 for me then. Self-determinism as I understand it would involve some level of self questioning and reflection, which would be unnecessary for a being whose fullness of existence is absolute

 

[Brendan13]

God in essence IS his/her nature..

So anything God does is precisely his nature regardless if he changes his being or not..

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well originally I was thinking there are three possibilities.

1. God determined his own nature
2. Some factor outside of God determined his nature
3. There is no reason his nature is what it is. It's essentially just random.

One is obviously circular, so we may as well say God created himself. Two would mean that God exists in some spiritual realm and that he is subject to the laws of this realm. Three would mean that God didn't necessarily have to have the attributes he has and that there is no reason for his nature or existence.

What factor outside of God could you be referring to? God has no beginning or end, so then God had whatever nature He had and then something else changed who God is?

 

[Eloy Craft]

If something outside of God determined God....then that being is God....then what determined that God...on and on