Did God determine his own nature?

[ToBeLoved]

Placing Him at the beginning of all we know and experience grants He has the power to create. But it doesn't prove He has absolute power over all He creates. I can create a fire, but I can't always stop it burning. I don't see a theoretical reason for Him being all-powerful over all He creates, even in the sense of the potential or capacity to do anything.



Omnipresent within Himself, of course, but omnipresent in this universe is yet to be shown. (I'm still toying with the idea that there may be an alternate space-time reality that is separate to our own, where time and space each operate differently and more like a how we experience dreams, and in that alternate-space-time-dimension He exists everywhere within it; but again, while I think this makes sense to people's experiences, it is not a theoretically logical finding -- as in, I'm not sure with only purely logical reasoning we will end up believing something like that).



True, unless there are other things that are uncaused and just exist... must there only be one uncaused thing?



True.



Interesting. Makes some sense.



The Bible appears to make statements about certain attributes of God. For example Jesus told us to love each as He loves us. John spends all that time with Jesus learning from Him and then writes in his letter, "God is love". So Biblically, I think there is a strong case for God being omnibenevolent. Whether omnibenevolence is a contingent attribute is not clear, but it definitely seems to be an attribute. The Bible makes it clear God is eternal, that He knows everything, that He holds everything by the power of His word, that He created everything etc. So when I wrote all those "no reason to believe He is..." statements that is because I wasn't referring to the Bible as a source of knowledge. If we refer to the Bible we can accept certain attributes. As for necessary attributes, it's not so clear I suppose. Nor is it clear why He is as He is.

So you are saying that you think God can create something that has more power than Himself?

That dies that seem possible or probable because Jesus said that the Father is over all. So He didn’t.

 

[Everybodyknows]

But God created all and the universe. So then are you saying that God created a universe and put laws in thar universe and then put Himself inside it?

I don’t see that as happening.

I'm not saying anything about him creating a universe.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

So you are saying that you think God can create something that has more power than Himself?

That dies that seem possible or probable because Jesus said that the Father is over all. So He didn’t.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if we don't use the Bible to explore God's attributes, but use logic and reason only, then why believe He is all-powerful?

 

[ToBeLoved]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if we don't use the Bible to explore God's attributes, but use logic and reason only, then why believe He is all-powerful?

Because we believe He created all and that means the universe, earth, plants, life everything.

That sounds like a lot of power to me. Why would we not think that the Creator is more powerful then what He has created? How do you give more power to something else than you have?

Plus the Bible itself tells us these things.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Because we believe He created all and that means the universe, earth, plants, life everything.

That sounds like a lot of power to me. Why would we not think that the Creator is more powerful then what He has created? How do you give more power to something else than you have?

Plus the Bible itself tells us these things.

I don't think you quite understand what I'm getting at sorry. To be clear, as I am using the term, all-powerful means God is powerful enough to do absolutely anything at all that isn't logically impossible (such as create a square circle). Another way to phrase is would be unlimited power. So first, to "create all" does not imply He has unlimited power, rather, He's powerful enough to create all. Powerful enough to create all does not mean there are some things God is incapable of doing. Perhaps He's powerful enough to create all but isn't powerful enough to destroy it (remember, I'm not talking about the Biblical God at this point, I'm talking about the concept of God we arrive at through logic alone). Perhaps He's powerful enough to create all there is currently but isn't powerful enough to create certain things that don't currently exist. Neither does His being "more powerful than His creation" imply He is "all-powerful". Do you see what I'm getting at? Perhaps you're finding it difficult to think about God without Biblical influence; I'm simply questioning where logic and reason take us with regard to God, because I don't believe reason and logic lead us to an all-powerful God.

 

[SkyWriting]

The first sentence answers the second.

I agree the second sentence has no meaning given the first.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't think you quite understand what I'm getting at sorry. To be clear, as I am using the term, all-powerful means God is powerful enough to do absolutely anything at all that isn't logically impossible (such as create a square circle). Another way to phrase is would be unlimited power. So first, to "create all" does not imply He has unlimited power, rather, He's powerful enough to create all. Powerful enough to create all does not mean there are some things God is incapable of doing. Perhaps He's powerful enough to create all but isn't powerful enough to destroy it (remember, I'm not talking about the Biblical God at this point, I'm talking about the concept of God we arrive at through logic alone). Perhaps He's powerful enough to create all there is currently but isn't powerful enough to create certain things that don't currently exist. Neither does His being "more powerful than His creation" imply He is "all-powerful". Do you see what I'm getting at? Perhaps you're finding it difficult to think about God without Biblical influence; I'm simply questioning where logic and reason take us with regard to God, because I don't believe reason and logic lead us to an all-powerful God.

I think all there is is a powerful indication of His power

 

[noam burde]

Most would agree that God's nature is eternal and unchanging. Did God choose his nature or is it determined by some factor outside himself?

he said he created us in his likeness. so must be quite seemilare to a human.
so I believe his nature is at least partly a nature he had from the beginning. because I don't think someone not human would choose to be human. and create other humans.

 

[looking_for_answers_]

Do we have a way to deal with eternal regression other than just to throw our hands in the air and say it's beyond comprehension?

An eternal regression or an uncaused cause. If you can think of a coherent third alternative you will become a modern-day celebrity philosopher very quickly.

 

[Drifter Kybe Scythe Kane]

Why is he as he is?

hard one. perhaps because the universe needs one for good and justice and bad things for he is as he is. despite his mysterious self, he is the god that always wins. i mean like if you simply examine the universe, justice always win for some reason like in wars and crimes. we need one for better or for bad i suppose.

 

[Everybodyknows]

hard one. perhaps because the universe needs one for good and justice and bad things for he is as he is. despite his mysterious self, he is the god that always wins. i mean like if you simply examine the universe, justice always win for some reason like in wars and crimes. we need one for better or for bad i suppose.

The universe was created by him. I don't see how the needs of the universe have any bearing on his nature. He precedes the universe. Do you view God as a being that exists within the universe?

 

[Everybodyknows]

An eternal regression or an uncaused cause. If you can think of a coherent third alternative you will become a modern-day celebrity philosopher very quickly.

Maybe causality only applies within our universe.

 

[Drifter Kybe Scythe Kane]

The universe was created by him. I don't see how the needs of the universe have any bearing on his nature. He precedes the universe. Do you view God as a being that exists within the universe?

is he not within all of us as well? i don't know much about christianity but i think this is true, no?

 

[Everybodyknows]

is he not within all of us as well? i don't know much about christianity but i think this is true, no?

Well yes, he is in all. The point I'm trying to make though is that the things he has caused don't determine his nature. Like for example, the things I cause don't determine my eye colour but there are things outside of myself that have caused me to have blue eyes. And I am one of the causes of my children's eye colour.

 

[looking_for_answers_]

Maybe causality only applies within our universe.

A universe that does not have causality is a universe of randomness. Even the supernatural still has some sort of nature, some rules that define how it acts, and if it has no rules to how it acts, you'd have a terrifying universe with no laws or order, like something dreamt up by jack kirby:
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/e9E.../file/7166751/Ditko_DrStrange_Landscape.0.jpg

That said, a universe without causality is not a third alternative to what I wrote, that would just be a world of "uncaused causes"

 

[Everybodyknows]

A universe that does not have causality is a universe of randomness. Even the supernatural still has some sort of nature, some rules that define how it acts, and if it has no rules to how it acts, you'd have a terrifying universe with no laws or order, like something dreamt up by jack kirby:
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/e9E.../file/7166751/Ditko_DrStrange_Landscape.0.jpg

That said, a universe without causality is not a third alternative to what I wrote, that would just be a world of "uncaused causes"

What about a universe without time? Cause and effect require time, a timeless state would be static. Randomness also requires time. I bring this up because most Christians view God a being outside of time.

If the supernatural realm has laws that govern it and God exists within this realm, would you say that God is subject to these laws in the same way we are subject to the laws of our universe? If he is subject to laws then wouldn't it be these laws that determine his nature?

 

[Drifter Kybe Scythe Kane]

What about a universe without time? Cause and effect require time, a timeless state would be static. Randomness also requires time. I bring this up because most Christians view God a being outside of time.

If the supernatural realm has laws that govern it and God exists within this realm, would you say that God is subject to these laws in the same way we are subject to the laws of our universe? If he is subject to laws then wouldn't it be these laws that determine his nature?

our lord God possesses invisible knowledge about all these stuff. he is in within nurturing, love, wisdom and those words have main categories and sub categories and definitions of how it works therefore even his creation in our realm means those things determines his nature as well. He is within choice making as well-would that not therefore be part of his infinity league that would be part of his personality in which he is ALSO in?

 

[Urban_Legend]

I think God's nature would have been like default, if you know what I mean

 

[Urban_Legend]

...his nature would be what is good, complete, perfect and righteous...any deviations from that would be falling short, wrong and sinful.

 

[Urban_Legend]

We are the fallen ones, incomplete and afflicted, Jesus displayed God's nature on this earth, perfect and righteous and that is what some disciples stive for, to have a Godly nature