Did God determine his own nature?

[Grandliseur]

Most would agree that God's nature is eternal and unchanging. Did God choose his nature or is it determined by some factor outside himself?

I already answered this once, but will give some additional thoughts. The thing is that if a being is immortal as God is, and having the mental computational powers that we cannot even comprehend, there are processes at work within the 'physical being' that must be adhered to for life to be immortal. Anything that would be akin to cancer, would be recognized as evil so that the physical process and the mental philosophical things resembling cancerous processes would be recognized and stamped as evil. Likewise, love, justice, and all these different mental values could be extrapolated from the functions of a body that operates on an immortal level.

Once God decided to create, it would be obvious that the things that were found true within himself would also be taught to his creation as good or evil depending on the matter being taught. In this, it may be claimed that satan never knew God, or the function of cancer found in animals as applied to the level of social function. If he had understood how his rebellion would clearly be like a cancer that God had to stamp out or loose all creation, he would perhaps have thought twice about his rebellion, unless he had become insane.

 

[FireDragon76]

Then there must be some factor external to God that determined his existence and nature. What is it?

No, God's essence logically precedes his existence.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Most would agree that God's nature is eternal and unchanging. Did God choose his nature or is it determined by some factor outside himself?

God when He finished creating, the only thing created that was considered to be just like Him was humanity. That we can grow and learn, may suggest that this is too adult a discussion for us children of the kingdom. However, it is possible in the same way, I am always the same person to me .. God is unchanging ... but as God acts, God interacts, God creates, God grows as a person. Since the one God is triune being three persons perhaps the reality of this is difficult to grasp in our current form, because we aren't exactly like Him, the bodies we use as a temporary dwelling on earth sin, and God doesn't sin, that's the main difference. So I imagine, this will make more sense in the resurrection bodies.

 

[RC1970]

No, God's essence logically precedes his existence.

This would be true of everything that God created, but for God Himself, His essence and existence would have to be simultaneous.

 

[FireDragon76]

This would be true of everything that God created, but for God Himself, His essence and existence would have to be simultaneous.

Only if you are a Thomist.

 

[Ron Gurley]

God is pure and perfect SPIRIT only, pre-existing eternity, infinity, and Man's "time".

Here is "GOD" of the Bible and spirit-led writings
which refect His "meaning" and nature and SPIRITUAL essence and character and attributes.

1. Existent (Spirit Being)
2. Unified (not in different parts)
3. Simple...Holy...Righteous...perfectly Good...pure
4. Infinite (no Beginning, no End)
5. Eternal (beyond limits of time and space)
6. Unchanging and unchangeable CHARACTER (immutable)
7. All Present (spiritually everywhere and available)...omnipresent
8. All Sovereign (rules over/in complete control of {as He directs all things vs. all}
9. All Knowing (Omniscience...perfect wisdom)
10.All powerful (Omnipotence...God Almighty)
11.Perfectly JUST (fairness in His JUDGMENT of ALL SPIRITS)
12.Perfectly LOVING / Merciful (God IS Love;undeserved help for the afflicted)
13.Perfectly TRUE / Truthful (always truth-telling, inerrant)
14.Perfectly FREE (from sin and unrestricted power
15.Perfectly Separate (to mark off from others by boundaries)

By spiritually discerning Scripture, three spiritual Persons...a TRI-UNE GOD... were revealed.
Each had different NAMES, titles, roles, ranks, functions, etc.
Yet there was ONE "GOD" unified in spiritual essence, nature, and pre-existence.
They became known by the early "church" fathers and through spirit-led revelation as:
1. God the Father: associated with NAMES above, Creative Father, Loving Father, "our Father"
2. God the Holy Spirit: named the Spirit of Truth, enpowering and dwelling with the spirit of Man
3. God the Son: Jesus of Nazareth, Divine Messiah, THE Christ, Son of God, Son of Man, ETC
with a DUAL NATURE:
1. True perfect and sinless Man / New Adam...flesh of Man
2. True Diety sent down from heaven to save Man

 

[Tom 1]

Then there must be some factor external to God that determined his existence and nature. What is it?

I think the answer to this is God's answer to Moses' question 'Who shall I say sent me', i.e. 'I am'. God is - he just is, in the eternal 'now' of eternity. I doubt if there is any way of understanding what that actually means, or any way of putting it into terms that really explain it. This should make for an interesting post though.

 

[Winken]

Creator who IS; never created. All of Him is all of Him. He does not search for an applicable approach. He IS His applicable approach. He does not determine to refine or redefine His Being. He is never "without" anything, never lacking. He is utterly Spiritual, utterly invisible, without body, shape or form. He became visible in His Person of Jesus. In so doing, He and Jesus remained One. The Holy Spirit who is God embraced Jesus during His earthly ministry. They were One. Jesus returned to His invisible status with God and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Everybodyknows]

No, God's essence logically precedes his existence.

Isn't existence part of his essence?

 

[truefiction1]

Thank you.

What is the meaning of the divine persons preceding the divine nature?

I'm not familiar with the eastern view, what are the primary differences?

The western view of God is arrived at through philosophical speculation on Scripture, combined with contemplation of ones own triune constitution and projecting it into the Godhead as a means of defining the relationships between the Divine Persons.

The eastern view is that God is known only through Personal revelation in Communion with the Holy Spirit: so is known only by way of actual "Personal encounter" of God's Life-giving energies, made manifest in us according to His will by the action of the Holy Spirit.

You wanted to know if, in God, Divine Persons are produced/determined by the Divine nature, or, on the other hand, if the Divine nature is produced/determined by the Divine Persons. The Divine Persons are NOT products of the Divine nature. This is a Great mystery (which has been termed the great mystery of person-hood in eastern Christian theology). It simply cannot be understood by human reasoning. The mystery, however, is realized by the pure in heart when they see God.

 

[FireDragon76]

Isn't existence part of his essence?

Wouldn't that just be pantheism?

 

[Winken]

Did God determine his own nature

1. 
   Yes
   3 vote(s)
   18.8% God who IS fashioned Himself? No. He isn't into fashioning. He IS. Was there a force outside of Him who determined His nature? No. His nature IS. He is without beginning, without end, without corrective or adjusting measures.
2. 
   No
   9 vote(s)
   50.0%
3. Something else 4 vote(s) There is no "something else." God IS.

 

[Everybodyknows]

Wouldn't that just be pantheism?

Why would it be? God's existence precedes the existence of creation where his existence is purely in and of himself. If existence isn't part of his essence then his essence cannot exist.

 

[Everybodyknows]

The western view of God is arrived at through philosophical speculation on Scripture, combined with contemplation of ones own triune constitution and projecting it into the Godhead as a means of defining the relationships between the Divine Persons.

The eastern view is that God is known only through Personal revelation in Communion with the Holy Spirit: so is known only by way of actual "Personal encounter" of God's Life-giving energies, made manifest in us according to His will by the action of the Holy Spirit.

You wanted to know if, in God, Divine Persons are produced/determined by the Divine nature, or, on the other hand, if the Divine nature is produced/determined by the Divine Persons. The Divine Persons are NOT products of the Divine nature. This is a Great mystery (which has been termed the great mystery of person-hood in eastern Christian theology). It simply cannot be understood by human reasoning. The mystery, however, is realized by the pure in heart when they see God.

There's a lot to like in the eastern view.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Marvin said, "He is what He is - to paraphrase what He has designated His name to be. He is immutable."

Designating is an act. Did he designate what he himself is to be? What is the difference between him and his name?

Designating is indeed an act - and your point is what?

No - He designated what His name was to be.

He Himself is the sum total of His nature. His name simply describes what His nature is and always has been.

......... or is it determined by some factor outside himself?

There is nothing "outside of Himself". You have already agreed with me about that.

......... Did God choose his nature?

Most would agree that God's nature is eternal and unchanging.

I understand his actions are voluntary, but his attributes are not.

You just answered your own question. If you don't realize that - you are running a brick short of a full load.

Why is he as he is?

Because He is God.

Obviously you feel that you have invented a new stream of questions which no one has addressed as of yet. You have not - those questions and their answers are the foundation for the most basic tenets of systematic theology.

You seem to me to be like the little boy who asks the same question of his mother again and again even after she has answered him.

"Mommy what is God?"
"God is a person who has always existed exactly as He now exists and will always exist."

"Who created God?"
"No one created God. I just told you that He has always existed."

"Who made Him like He is?"
"No one made Him like He is. I just told you that He has always been just as He is."

"But someone must have made Him - right?"
"No - He was before all things. He alone is eternal."

"Did God come out of nothing?"
"No - one of the basic principles of logic and science is that out of nothing nothing can come."

"Did God create Himself?"
"No - that's a logical impossibility."

"Mommy what is God."
"I already told you."

"Did God create Himself?"
"You don't want answers. You just want to argue. Go to your room and don't come out until you are ready to stop playing silly games."

If you have convinced some others here that your questions are really deep - I will let them waste their time with you.

As for me - I'm on to you and I'm signing off.

 

[Colter]

Most would agree that God's nature is eternal and unchanging. Did God choose his nature or is it determined by some factor outside himself?

The I AM is existential, he inhabits the circle of eternity. He is without beginning or end of days. To God there is no past, present, or future; all time is present at any given moment. He is the great and only I AM. What we call "God" is the one uncaused reality in all the universe.


As for his nature we can know something of it as it exists in his Son.

 

[Vicomte13]

Do we have a way to deal with eternal regression other than just to throw our hands in the air and say it's beyond comprehension?

Yes. We can give the source of the eternal regression a name, a word that refers to "that".
"God" works.

 

[chilehed]

Most would agree that God's nature is eternal and unchanging. Did God choose his nature or is it determined by some factor outside himself?

God is entirely self-determinate.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

The problem with the question is that it assumes God is not immutable, that He was different at some point In eternity past.

God does not change. Who He is now is who He always has been.

 

[Petros2015]

it would be difficult to create something like love if love was not intrinsic to you. i am not speaking of the human emotion here but of its highest ideal. i cannot imagine something that was loveless bringing forth love