Did God create evil?

[Lik3]

Why didn't Satan remain good? Why did God allow Satan to deceive us? Satan is truly the anti-Christ because he is Jesus Christ's opposition. Why couldn't Satan remain good and not so arrogant? Having said that, did God know that Satan would be the deceiver, thus the father of lies? Did God know that Satan could only do but so much? Because he will be cast alive in the Lake of Fire, didn't in His arrogance fail to understand what he was really doing? Was there a purpose as to why there was even a role between good and evil? It also seems so unfair? Why didn't he be given a chance to deceive Adam and Eve? Why couldn't we have been perfect? Is there a possibility that God has regretted creating Satan and his followers knowing that He is the God of prophecy? My question is, did God create evil and if so, why?

 

[Greg J.]

Satan didn't remain good, because he chose to reject God. God did a perfect job giving sentient beings free will which can result in independence in a good way or a bad way. A very independent person who chooses God rightly earns much reward. A less independent person who chooses God earns less. (We're all 100% independent in this sense, however there are varying degrees of difficulty to choose God which has a similar effect.)

Satan came to perceive himself as like God contrary to factual information. God allowed it because it was more important to him to not control sentient beings like they were his slaves, or like they were his robots. God knows everything that ever was, could be, and will be. Satan didn't understand what he was doing because he wasn't omniscient and arrogance is accompanied by blindness. Evil did not come into existence because that's what God wanted, so it wasn't an intended "purpose" before it happened, but as the Creator of everything, everything glorifies God in one way or another.

It seems unfair because you do not recognize how great a precious treasure it is to be able to make choices for yourself. It is IMO the most important thing that makes us like God. Being "like God" (an English phrase whose meaning comes from our culture) does not really convey its significance. You'd be closer by understanding what it means if you think God chose to create you as a "god." It was the most amazing thing ever, and not something there is any reason for him to undo.

To not grant the ability to make choices for ourselves was what God did when he made animals. Being like God and not an animal means you are responsible for the consequences of your choices. God did not create evil. The nature of evil is defined as what is (and was) contrary to God's nature, but it did not exist until Satan sinned.

 

[Ken Behrens]

God did not create evil. God simply left some potential good uncreated in the part of creation we call the earth. He left it this way so that there could be beings (us) who could recognize Him as good. In this way, we get a choice. Thus love (God) expresses itself by allowing itself to be refused. Without that, creation would be robots, not capable of love themselves.

Satan was an archangel privy to God's decision. Satan challenged it, saying that this idea (to create us and earth) would cause God to be accused of creating evil. God said something along the lines of love expressing itself is the more important thing. Rather than submitting, Satan chose to get other angels on his side. That was the cause of the war in heaven. Because angels are timeless, Satan's choice continues to express itself in our lives as temptation and confusion, hoping to prove himself right and God wrong.

God's priority is love expressing itself by allowing others to refuse Him, and that is His number one priority. Would He have liked it better the other way? I don't know, opinions are divided. A proper answer is that God is bigger than any problem we can ever envision, and I'm sure He's bigger than all this too.

 

[1213]

...My question is, did God create evil and if so, why?

According to the Bible, God created life and this world, so he also created everything that has become evil since.

But I think it would be good to understand first, what evil means. I have understood it is actually like emptiness, it is lack of good. So, when God, the light, steps a side, darkness comes possible. And darkness is really nothing, it is the emptiness that remains when light is not present.

I think it is perfect that God gave the opportunity to reject Him and so get the “darkness”. If we would be forced to be in the light, I think it would be not loving from God and then this would not be true:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

In my opinion God’s greatness comes visible in that He gives this opportunity also for those who hate Him. And still everything goes for His benefit. Even the evil proves God’s greatness and love.

 

[WisdomandLove]

God did not create evil. God simply left some potential good uncreated in the part of creation we call the earth. He left it this way so that there could be beings (us) who could recognize Him as good. In this way, we get a choice. Thus love (God) expresses itself by allowing itself to be refused. Without that, creation would be robots, not capable of love themselves.

Satan was an archangel privy to God's decision. Satan challenged it, saying that this idea (to create us and earth) would cause God to be accused of creating evil. God said something along the lines of love expressing itself is the more important thing. Rather than submitting, Satan chose to get other angels on his side. That was the cause of the war in heaven. Because angels are timeless, Satan's choice continues to express itself in our lives as temptation and confusion, hoping to prove himself right and God wrong.

God's priority is love expressing itself by allowing others to refuse Him, and that is His number one priority. Would He have liked it better the other way? I don't know, opinions are divided. A proper answer is that God is bigger than any problem we can ever envision, and I'm sure He's bigger than all this too.

It seems to me that God creates evil every day and this is biblically supported. Here are but a few verses to ponder:

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, andthe LORD hath not done it?

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

If God really is "working all things after the counsel of His own will", then He is working and thinking of how to work all the evil that is occurring in all the earth all the time.

But God alone is capable of "creating evil" and making good come from evil. No man can do that, and God does not give an accounting to any man for His actions and His plan.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Here are the answers to your Scriptures:
Prov. 16:4 The Lord made the wicked man but did not cause him to be wicked. The Lord made the man good, and the man made a different choice. That is the reason the next verse explains how the man got that way. And that is also why He made the man for the day of evil. It's on that day that the wickedness will be exposed.

Is. 45:7 Remember this is poetry also. Read in Hebrew, you get the proper sense. I form (yatsar=to mold) light and create (bara=to give meaning to) darkness. So the first part of the poetic couplet sets us up that by molding light into a useful form, God causes us to recognize darkness. Compare this to Gen. 1, where when God "bara" earth, He first made light, but darkness already existed. The second part of the couplet is I make (asah=make happen) peace, and create (bara) evil. The parallelism is obvious. Evil is known because of peace, just like darkness receives meaning because of light.

Amos 3:6 The evil referred to here is the punishment for sin, which men call evil. This is clear from the context. Job 2:10 is related, evil comes from the hand of the Lord; He does not create it, but He does apportion it properly to correct His children. That is why the next verse also speaks of the prophets knowing what will happen ahead of time.

Lam. 3:37-47 is the detailed explanation of all these passages.

Eph. 1:1 is not applicable, since evil is not a thing, but the absence of a thing.

Rev. 13:13 is not applicable, since fire is not inherently evil. Ps. 104:4 says angels are made of fire.

God does not create evil. Our sin creates what WE call evil. He does use what we call evil to wake us up to our sins.

 

[Radrook]

Why didn't Satan remain good? Why did God allow Satan to deceive us? Satan is truly the anti-Christ because he is Jesus Christ's opposition. Why couldn't Satan remain good and not so arrogant? Having said that, did God know that Satan would be the deceiver, thus the father of lies? Did God know that Satan could only do but so much? Because he will be cast alive in the Lake of Fire, didn't in His arrogance fail to understand what he was really doing? Was there a purpose as to why there was even a role between good and evil? It also seems so unfair? Why didn't he be given a chance to deceive Adam and Eve? Why couldn't we have been perfect? Is there a possibility that God has regretted creating Satan and his followers knowing that He is the God of prophecy? My question is, did God create evil and if so, why?

God allowed freedom of choice both for his angels and for mankind because he does not desire robotic obedience to his will but desires an obedience based on appreciation for his moral principles and a love for him as a heavenly Father based on that deep appreciation.

Did he know that sooner or later freedom of choice would produce a creature who would choose to disobey?
To deny that he knew would be extremely naïve since statistical probability alone would indicate that such an eventuality was just a matter of time. Did he create any particular angelic creature with a greater propensity to go against him tan others? No he did not because then his creation would be flawed and we are told that all his works are perfect.

Did he know from the beginning which one of his angelic sons would turnout become Satan? Perhaps yes and perhaps no depending on you views of God's abilities. What is certain however is that he chose not to interfere with the choices that both his rebel son made and his two earthly offspring made. Instead he allowed the sequence of events to run their course-a course that they are still in the process of running right now.


Why did he allow this instead of crushing the opposition with a display of irresistible POWER? Well, because POWER was not the issue that emerged. The issue that emerged is his moral right to rule the universe. How did such an issue emerge? The book of Genesis tells us that
God was accused of being a selfish liar who wanted to keep mankind subjugated in an inferior position because he wanted to reserve that position of determining what is right and wrong or sinful to himself and not because mankind really needed or would fail without his guidance.

So why not destroy them all? That would have been easy since God is almighty. However, destroying Satan and the two human's would have left that issue unresolved before all angelic observers. In fact, it would have raised questions as to why they were not allowed a chance to try to prove him wrong. So he gave them a fair chance to try it. The disastrous results are written for all to see in our history books.

So why not terminate this all now or long before. Well, then it could Satanically argued that mankind was not provided with the opportunity to reach the pinnacle of technological achievement. That they were cunningly cut short in order to prevent success under Satan and his minions.

So it will go on until there can no longer be any doubts at all that can be legitimately raised concerning this issue. Then the end will come with conclusive, irresistible power to back it up.

 

[JackRT]

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that Satan IS NOT the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. I think that this misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:7 is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.

 

[Radrook]

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that Satan IS NOT the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. I think that this misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:7 is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.

The book of Revelation clearly tells us that Satan had access to heaven until the Lord's day when he would finally be hurled and banished from heaven. That was revealed to Christians long after Satan appeared before God in heaven to accuse Job and shows that his access to heaven was indeed being allowed. Otherwise there would be no need for a war to break out in heaven during the Lord's day in order to oust him and his demons from heaven where they carried out accusatory activities there as we are told in Revelation's prophecy would there?

Rev 12:
7Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels.…

Revelation 12:9 ►
New International Version
The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

You see, the Bible explains itself if we are willing to permit it to. If not, then it seems to be full of contradictions. Fortunately, there are no contradictions. Contradictions are caused by failure to take its full content under consideration before reaching any conclusions and putting them forth as truth.

BTW
No sir. These things were prophecies and had NOT yet taken place. They were to occur during the Lord's day where John found himself during the Revelation. So Satan's banning from heaven was yet in the future. The introduction to Revelation makes that perfectly clear. Please read it.


Revelation 1:
1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 4:1
After this I looked and saw a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had previously heard speak to me like a trumpet was saying, "Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after these things."

 

[Hillsage]

I'm pretty sure that God, in His omniscience, planted "the tree of GOOD and EVIL" knowing full well that it would produce fruit.

And as for the devil, he was created knowing full well what he would do 'from the beginning'.

1JO 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

JOH 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[xpower]

Evil is not a "thing".

 

[Radrook]

I'm pretty sure that God, in His omniscience, planted "the tree of GOOD and EVIL" knowing full well that it would produce fruit.

And as for the devil, he was created knowing full well what he would do 'from the beginning'.

1JO 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

JOH 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

We can be pretty sure of many things about what we read ion the Bible. The real question is do our concepts harmonize with what we are told about God. Very often the concepts expressed go completely contrary to God's revealed purposes and his personality. In fact, very often what some individuals conclude concerning what they read in the Bible harmonizes very nicely with the message delivered by Satan as described in Genesis and is therefore nothing more than ineffectually camouflaged Satanic propaganda because it accuses God of being a scheming unjust ruler out to harm mankind and every other creature which he has created in the process.

Sorry, but the scriptures you mention provide absolutely no support for the concept that God CREATED a malicious creature intent on harming mankind. They are merely a description of a creature who went awry on his own volition. The term from the beginning means the beginning of the creation of mankind. Additionally, in Ezekiel we are provided with a description of Lucifer and are told that he was once pure but turned bad.

Before his fall, Satan was indeed a beautiful creature (Ezekiel 28:12–13). He was perhaps the most beautiful and powerful of all the angels. The phrase "guardian cherub" possibly indicates that Satan was the angel who "guarded" God’s presence. Pride led to Satan’s fall. (Revelation 20:10).

https://gotquestions.org/King-of-Tyre.html

So it can't be in reference to his beginning.


We are also told that all of God's works are good and perfect.

Deuteronomy 32:4 ►
New International Version
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

So God could NOT have made an evil creature such as Satan. Therefore your interpretation, which shifts all the blame on God, has absolutely no scriptural support.

BTW

As I said, ANYONE can proclaim ANYTHING and loudly vociferate or confidently say ANYTHING about ANYTHING at all which he reads in the Bible. However, can he or she harmonize it with what the Bible really tells us? Not by a long shot.

 

[WisdomandLove]

Here are the answers to your Scriptures:
Prov. 16:4 The Lord made the wicked man but did not cause him to be wicked. The Lord made the man good, and the man made a different choice. That is the reason the next verse explains how the man got that way. And that is also why He made the man for the day of evil. It's on that day that the wickedness will be exposed.

Is. 45:7 Remember this is poetry also. Read in Hebrew, you get the proper sense. I form (yatsar=to mold) light and create (bara=to give meaning to) darkness. So the first part of the poetic couplet sets us up that by molding light into a useful form, God causes us to recognize darkness. Compare this to Gen. 1, where when God "bara" earth, He first made light, but darkness already existed. The second part of the couplet is I make (asah=make happen) peace, and create (bara) evil. The parallelism is obvious. Evil is known because of peace, just like darkness receives meaning because of light.

Amos 3:6 The evil referred to here is the punishment for sin, which men call evil. This is clear from the context. Job 2:10 is related, evil comes from the hand of the Lord; He does not create it, but He does apportion it properly to correct His children. That is why the next verse also speaks of the prophets knowing what will happen ahead of time.

Lam. 3:37-47 is the detailed explanation of all these passages.

Eph. 1:1 is not applicable, since evil is not a thing, but the absence of a thing.

Rev. 13:13 is not applicable, since fire is not inherently evil. Ps. 104:4 says angels are made of fire.

God does not create evil. Our sin creates what WE call evil. He does use what we call evil to wake us up to our sins.

There is no use trying to disassociate God from evil, as you are trying to do, because God is the very creator of evil in the first place.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7)

Yes, even evil (which in Hebrew means: misery, affliction, hurt, harm, calamity, adversity) is the creation of God. He has not only created it, He can even use evil in the pursuance of good. However, it must be clearly understood that only a sovereign God can do this. That's because His omnipotence allows Him the full capability of bringing good out of any evil. We humans have no such power. God orders us to shun evil at all costs (1 Thessalonians 5:22). But God certainly uses evil in the accomplishment of His plan. One of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by the hand of man was the crucifixion of God's own son on the cross. Yet that very evil was planned to occur before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). All the actions of God (both good and evil) have a purpose, which God is using for the final good and glory of His creation. He has a "plan of the ages" (Ehpesians 3:11, Greek). The center of that plan rests in the actions of Jesus Christ and in the redemption, which is found in the efficacy of His cross and resurrection.

"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand" (Deut. 32:39).

Let’s delve further. Twice Joseph acknowledges that his brothers sold him into slavery in Egypt. Yet he declares that their thoughts and actions were not really their own but God's work. "So now it was not you that sent me here, but God." How had God done that? He Himself tempts no man so He had sent an evil spirit to cause that thought to be conceived and carried out. Just as He withdrew His own spirit and then sent His evil spirits to trouble King Saul and to cause King Saul to want David dead, and just as He sent a lying spirit into the mouths of all of King Ahab's prophets.

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1Sa 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice [him], and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
2Ch 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets,and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

Here is God's answer to all who confront Him on this question:

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

The answer is that no one can resist God's will, and He is working all things according to the counsel of His own will, and if we don't like the way He is doing things, then that too, is His work. All of our thoughts, good and evil, are His work via either good or evil spirits, and in the end it will all "work together for good".

 

[JackRT]

There is no use trying to disassociate God from evil, as you are trying to do, because God is the very creator of evil in the first place.

However, the Bible does just that. As I pointed out in my earlier post (#8), the concept of Satan and evil evolved through the Bible. Before the Exile God was indeed regarded as the author of evil while afterwards that blame is shifted to Satan. I have come to regard Satan as an entirely human concept attempting to explain why mankind is so prone to evil.

 

[Radrook]

The references to God creating evil that were quoted are mistranslations of the Hebrew word which is better translated as calamity.

Isaiah 45:7 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New Living Translation
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things."

International Standard Version
"I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the LORD, who does all these things.

NET Bible
I am the one who forms light and creates darkness; the one who brings about peace and creates calamity. I am the LORD, who accomplishes all these things.

New Heart English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am the LORD, who does all these things.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the LORD, do all these things.


New American Standard 1977
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.


King James 2000 Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create calamity: I the LORD do all these things.

Bringing calamity upon those who deserve calamity is not an evil. It is called righteous justice.


Psalm 11:7
For the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; The upright will behold His face.

Psalm 50:6
And the heavens declare His righteousness, For God Himself is judge. Selah.



God does bring calamity in two ways

1. Via the rule that what man sows he invariably reaps in one negative way or the other. If he sows evil then calamities or negative harmful things will come upon that person sooner or later for God cannot be mocked.

Galatians 6:7 ►
New International Version
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

2. Via direct action as he did against the Egyptians as described in Exodus.

Exodus 15:19 ►
New International Version
When Pharaoh's horses, chariots and horsemen went into the sea, the LORD brought the waters of the sea back over them, but the Israelites walked through the sea on dry ground.

That in no way means that he is the source of evil as is defined in the Bible. Evil as defined in the Bibles going contrary to the will of God. God does not go contrary to his own Holy personality and principles so he is not the source of evil. Neither can evil be attributed to him for providing mankind and angels with free will. Each free willed creature must carry the full responsibility for his own decisions and actions.

James 1:
13When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. 15Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death

Satan just wants to cunningly shift the blame for what he is fully responsible. Sorry but not on my shift.

 

[Hillsage]

There is no use trying to disassociate God from evil, as you are trying to do, because God is the very creator of evil in the first place.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7)

Yes, even evil (which in Hebrew means: misery, affliction, hurt, harm, calamity, adversity) is the creation of God. He has not only created it, He can even use evil in the pursuance of good. However, it must be clearly understood that only a sovereign God can do this. That's because His omnipotence allows Him the full capability of bringing good out of any evil. We humans have no such power. God orders us to shun evil at all costs (1 Thessalonians 5:22). But God certainly uses evil in the accomplishment of His plan. One of the greatest evils ever perpetrated by the hand of man was the crucifixion of God's own son on the cross. Yet that very evil was planned to occur before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). All the actions of God (both good and evil) have a purpose, which God is using for the final good and glory of His creation. He has a "plan of the ages" (Ehpesians 3:11, Greek). The center of that plan rests in the actions of Jesus Christ and in the redemption, which is found in the efficacy of His cross and resurrection.

"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand" (Deut. 32:39).

Let’s delve further. Twice Joseph acknowledges that his brothers sold him into slavery in Egypt. Yet he declares that their thoughts and actions were not really their own but God's work. "So now it was not you that sent me here, but God." How had God done that? He Himself tempts no man so He had sent an evil spirit to cause that thought to be conceived and carried out. Just as He withdrew His own spirit and then sent His evil spirits to trouble King Saul and to cause King Saul to want David dead, and just as He sent a lying spirit into the mouths of all of King Ahab's prophets.

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1Sa 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice [him], and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
2Ch 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets,and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

Here is God's answer to all who confront Him on this question:

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

The answer is that no one can resist God's will, and He is working all things according to the counsel of His own will, and if we don't like the way He is doing things, then that too, is His work. All of our thoughts, good and evil, are His work via either good or evil spirits, and in the end it will all "work together for good".

Your post indicates a belief in a God who actually was and still is omniscient. As well as One who's 'ways really are above our ways'.

 

[WisdomandLove]

We can be pretty sure of many things about what we read ion the Bible. The real question is do our concepts harmonize with what we are told about God. Very often the concepts expressed go completely contrary to God's revealed purposes and his personality. In fact, very often what some individuals conclude concerning what they read in the Bible harmonizes very nicely with the message delivered by Satan as described in Genesis and is therefore nothing more than ineffectually camouflaged Satanic propaganda because it accuses God of being a scheming unjust ruler out to harm mankind and every other creature which he has created in the process.

Sorry, but the scriptures you mention provide absolutely no support for the concept that God CREATED a malicious creature intent on harming mankind. They are merely a description of a creature who went awry on his own volition. The term from the beginning means the beginning of the creation of mankind. Additionally, in Ezekiel we are provided with a description of Lucifer and are told that he was once pure but turned bad.



So it can't be in reference to his beginning.


We are also told that all of God's works are good and perfect.



So God could NOT have made an evil creature such as Satan. Therefore your interpretation, which shifts all the blame on God, has absolutely no scriptural support.

BTW

As I said, ANYONE can proclaim ANYTHING and loudly vociferate or confidently say ANYTHING about ANYTHING at all which he reads in the Bible. However, can he or she harmonize it with what the Bible really tells us? Not by a long shot.

First of all you are sadly mistaken. Lucifer is not Satan and is not a proper name. However, in Latin it is the word for "Day star" or "Morning Star." In fact in 2 Peter1:19 it refers to Jesus. If you wish to discuss please open a thread on it. Your statement that God could NOT have made an evil creature such as Satan does not square with scripture.

We are told clearly that, "The Slanderer is sinning, from the beginning" (1 John 3:8). If we allow that God created Satan (as such), the crucial question arises, Did God sin in creating the Slanderer? The answer will depend entirely upon the object He had in view. Was it God's will that sin should invade the universe or was it due to an error on His part? Remembering our definition of sin, we must be prepared to say that God has sinned, if the entrance of sin was a mistake.

If God created Satan perfect and his defection was a surprise and a disappointment to God, then there is no use in hiding behind mere words. He failed. He started out to make a flawless creature who turned out bad. There is no one else to charge with this failure but God. But this is all wrong, for God never fails, or sins.

Sin has an essential, though transient, part in God's purpose. God made due preparation for it before it came. The Lamb was slain from the disruption of the world. Creation may reveal some aspects of God's power and wisdom, but His love can be displayed only where sin has sown the seeds of hate. There can be no Saviour apart from sin. There can be no reconciliation apart from enmity. God locks up all in stubbornness in order that He may be merciful to all.

The Scriptures are not so squeamish on this subject as you appear to think. Jehovah says boldly in Isaiah 54:16 (A.V.) "I created the waster to destroy." To waste, or corrupt, is not simply evil. It is sin. Jehovah does not claim to do it, but to create the one who does. If the corrupter were created by another, or self-existent, then he would be out of hand, and Jehovah could not guarantee immunity to His people, or control the evil and harness it to His purpose.

Is there any suggestion as to who brought the serpent into existence?
In Job 26:13, we read: "His hand hath formed the crooked serpent."
Now, to the serpent, Job declares that, "By His spirit He garnished the heavens; His hand has travailed with the fugitive serpent."

Note the contrast between the garnishing of the heavens by His spirit and the painful production of the serpent by His hand. The spirit is used of intimate and vital association, the hand holds its work at a distance and suggests power and skill, rather than communion. Satan does just exactly what God sends Him to do - nothing more and nothing less.

 

[WisdomandLove]

First of all you are sadly mistaken. Lucifer is not Satan and is not a proper name. However, in Latin it is the word for "Day star" or "Morning Star." In fact in 2 Peter1:19 it refers to Jesus. If you wish to discuss please open a thread on it. Your statement that God could NOT have made an evil creature such as Satan does not square with scripture.

We are told clearly that, "The Slanderer is sinning, from the beginning" (1 John 3:8). If we allow that God created Satan (as such), the crucial question arises, Did God sin in creating the Slanderer? The answer will depend entirely upon the object He had in view. Was it God's will that sin should invade the universe or was it due to an error on His part? Bearing the definitions of sin in scripture, we must be prepared to say that God has sinned, if the entrance of sin was a mistake.

If God created Satan perfect and his defection was a surprise and a disappointment to God, then there is no use in hiding behind mere words. He failed. He started out to make a flawless creature who turned out bad. There is no one else to charge with this failure but God. But this is all wrong, for God never fails, or sins.

Sin has an essential, though transient, part in God's purpose. God made due preparation for it before it came. The Lamb was slain from the disruption of the world. Creation may reveal some aspects of God's power and wisdom, but His love can be displayed only where sin has sown the seeds of hate. There can be no Saviour apart from sin. There can be no reconciliation apart from enmity. God locks up all in stubbornness in order that He may be merciful to all.

The Scriptures are not so squeamish on this subject as you appear to think. Jehovah says boldly in Isaiah 54:16 (A.V.) "I created the waster to destroy." To waste, or corrupt, is not simply evil. It is sin. Jehovah does not claim to do it, but to create the one who does. If the corrupter were created by another, or self-existent, then he would be out of hand, and Jehovah could not guarantee immunity to His people, or control the evil and harness it to His purpose.

Is there any suggestion as to who brought the serpent into existence?
In Job 26:13, we read: "His hand hath formed the crooked serpent."
Now, to the serpent, Job declares that, "By His spirit He garnished the heavens; His hand has travailed with the fugitive serpent."

Note the contrast between the garnishing of the heavens by His spirit and the painful production of the serpent by His hand. The spirit is used of intimate and vital association, the hand holds its work at a distance and suggests power and skill, rather than communion. Satan does just exactly what God sends Him to do - nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Radrook]

Your post indicates a belief in a God who actually was and still is omniscient. As well as One who's 'ways really are above our ways'.

It indicates far more than merely that.

 

[Radrook]

=

First of all you are sadly mistaken. Lucifer is not Satan and is not a proper name. However, in Latin it is the word for "Day star" or "Morning Star." In fact in 2 Peter1:19 it refers to Jesus. If you wish to discuss please open a thread on it. Your statement that God could NOT have made an evil creature such as Satan does not square with scripture.

We are told clearly that, "The Slanderer is sinning, from the beginning" (1 John 3:8). If we allow that God created Satan (as such), the crucial question arises, Did God sin in creating the Slanderer? The answer will depend entirely upon the object He had in view. Was it God's will that sin should invade the universe or was it due to an error on His part? Remembering our definition of sin, we must be prepared to say that God has sinned, if the entrance of sin was a mistake.

If God created Satan perfect and his defection was a surprise and a disappointment to God, then there is no use in hiding behind mere words. He failed. He started out to make a flawless creature who turned out bad. There is no one else to charge with this failure but God. But this is all wrong, for God never fails, or sins.

Sin has an essential, though transient, part in God's purpose. God made due preparation for it before it came. The Lamb was slain from the disruption of the world. Creation may reveal some aspects of God's power and wisdom, but His love can be displayed only where sin has sown the seeds of hate. There can be no Saviour apart from sin. There can be no reconciliation apart from enmity. God locks up all in stubbornness in order that He may be merciful to all.

The Scriptures are not so squeamish on this subject as you appear to think. Jehovah says boldly in Isaiah 54:16 (A.V.) "I created the waster to destroy." To waste, or corrupt, is not simply evil. It is sin. Jehovah does not claim to do it, but to create the one who does. If the corrupter were created by another, or self-existent, then he would be out of hand, and Jehovah could not guarantee immunity to His people, or control the evil and harness it to His purpose.

Is there any suggestion as to who brought the serpent into existence?
In Job 26:13, we read: "His hand hath formed the crooked serpent."
Now, to the serpent, Job declares that, "By His spirit He garnished the heavens; His hand has travailed with the fugitive serpent."

Note the contrast between the garnishing of the heavens by His spirit and the painful production of the serpent by His hand. The spirit is used of intimate and vital association, the hand holds its work at a distance and suggests power and skill, rather than communion. Satan does just exactly what God sends Him to do - nothing more and nothing less.

This is the official Catholic Church position on this subject:

Decrees of the Fourth Lateran Council (cap. i, "Firmiter credimus"), wherein, after saying that God in the beginning had created together two creatures, the spiritual and the corporeal, that is to say the angelic and the earthly, and lastly man, who was made of both spirit and body, the council continues:

"Diabolus enim et alii dæmones a Deo quidem naturâ creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali." ("the Devil and the other demons were created by God good in their nature but they by themselves have made themselves evil.")

Here it is clearly taught that the Devil and the other demons are spiritual or angelic creatures created by God in a state of innocence, and that they became evil by their own act.

So if you are Catholioc you are going completely against the basic official Catholic doctrine and making up your own.

In the Old Testament we have a brief reference to the Fall in Job 4:18: "In his angels he found wickedness". But to this must be added the two classic texts in the prophets:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations? And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High. But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit. (Isaiah 14:12-15)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm

As you can see they disagree with your claims based on biblical evidence.

BTW
You are making a very basic mistake in quoting from the there supposed friends of Job who wee clearly under demonic influence to torment Job by calling accusing him of being guilty of wrongdoing. One of them even openly admitted being under demonic influence via a dream.

Job 4:

…14Dread came upon me, and trembling, And made all my bones shake. 15"Then a spirit passed by my face; The hair of my flesh bristled up. 16"It stood still, but I could not discern its appearance; A form was before my eyes; There was silence, then I heard a voice:…

First thing this demon said was that God has no faith in his servants.

That why they were reprimanded by Elihu who was indeed under divine inspiration when he spoke to Job as opposed to his demon-guided and devilishly misguided tormenting friends. Excuse me but. LOL!