Did Cain and Abel Keep the Torah or Sabbath?

[pinacled]

Viz,
It has been awhile since you've spoken of the righteousness of noach.

Do you remember our conversation a few yrs ago.... the consideration of three sons.
I recall one child held a deep resolve to continue a command.

 

[Open Heart]

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were a Catholic.

I am a Catholic who is a Jew. That is why it says I'm a Messianic Jewish Catholic under my name. I don't get it. You've known me for how long and you are just now finally getting it that I'm a Jew?

 

[Rachel Rachel]

I am a Catholic who is a Jew. That is why it says I'm a Messianic Jewish Catholic under my name. I don't get it. You've known me for how long and you are just now finally getting it that I'm a Jew?

Yes, I know you claim to be an observant Jew who also fully observes Catholic ritual and you know my feelings on what I consider to be an impossible contradiction that flies in the face of God's commandments - particularly for Jews. Whenever I've asked you about it, you've always begged off by saying the forum rules prevented you from discussing it. But now I see that you're phrasing it in s way that makes more sense...that you are a Catholic who happens to be a Jew. I just don't see how you can claim to be observant at both.
I suppose you'll hit the report button on this one, too.
I personally just wish you'd discuss it.

 

[pinacled]

Yes, I know you claim to be an observant Jew who also fully observes Catholic ritual and you know my feelings on what I consider to be an impossible contradiction that flies in the face of God's commandments - particularly for Jews. Whenever I've asked you about it, you've always begged off by saying the forum rules prevented you from discussing it. But now I see that you're phrasing it in s way that makes more sense...that you are a Catholic who happens to be a Jew. I just don't see how you can claim to be observant at both.
I suppose you'll hit the report button on this one, too.
I personally just wish you'd discuss it.

She may only missunderstand her inheritance for a moment.
In Holding dear to hope that she will see the evening wisdom is something I imaging Rachael would love very much.

Blessings always

 

[Open Heart]

I suppose you'll hit the report button on this one, too.

I've never reported you. What's to report? You've never violated the SOP that I can think of.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

I saw your quote of me, and I was like YIKES that wasn't quite what I meant! So I went back and edited my post to say "It's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath back in Cain and Abel's day."

So I guess "Do not murder" was not a law of nature in the garden of Eden? Yes sin is the violation of the law and "sin" is mentioned to Cain. Yah rested after all of his good work was done, thus Yeshua do those things that he see his father doing.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Rachel. I said it wasn't commanded back in Cain and Abel's day. However it WAS commanded much later at Mt. Sinai. So, for example, Cain was not required to keep the Sabbath but Joshua was.

You asked me why *I* keep the Sabbath? I'm a Jew, so I do Jew stuff. It's part of my identity. I don't do it out of obligation, but out of love for Hashem. However, I think that ANYONE who voluntarily decides to keep the Sabbath will be blessed and I support them.

Honoring the Sabbath is not Jewish stuff, as the children of Israel left Egypt as a mixed multitude. Honoring the Sabbath day is remembering the Sabbath day, Yah hallowed it and blessed it in the beginning, he rested after he finished all of his good work. Let us remember the Sabbath by keeping it holy.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

But I was responding directly to OH's comment that "it's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath."

Cain and Abel as priests knew that they should bring an offering before the L-rd, the time to bring an offering is during the Sabbath (2 Kings 4:23, Numbers 28:9-10) The seventh day is a Sabbath to the L-rd.

 

[Open Heart]

the children of Israel left Egypt as a mixed multitude.

Those of the mixed multitude converted -- they were adopted into Israel and took upon themselves the entire 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant.

Hey if you want to also observe all 613 laws, God bless you.

 

[Open Heart]

So I guess "Do not murder" was not a law of nature in the garden of Eden? Yes sin is the violation of the law and "sin" is mentioned to Cain. Yah rested after all of his good work was done, thus Yeshua do those things that he see his father doing.

Yes, not murdering is natural law. We especially know this because Cain was punished for murdering way back at the beginning of Genesis, long before the giving of the Law.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Those of the mixed multitude converted -- they were adopted into Israel and took upon themselves the entire 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant.

Hey if you want to also observe all 613 laws, God bless you.

If they observed all 613 laws why were they uncircumcised as they traveled through the wilderness and why did they worship the golden calf? The Sabbath was made for man, not for Jews only.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Rachel. I said it wasn't commanded back in Cain and Abel's day. However it WAS commanded much later at Mt. Sinai. So, for example, Cain was not required to keep the Sabbath but Joshua was.

You asked me why *I* keep the Sabbath? I'm a Jew, so I do Jew stuff. It's part of my identity. I don't do it out of obligation, but out of love for Hashem. However, I think that ANYONE who voluntarily decides to keep the Sabbath will be blessed and I support them.

There was "evening and morning" each day for six days; in the beginning there was no "evening and morning" on the seventh day.

 

[danny ski]

Honoring the Sabbath is not Jewish stuff, as the children of Israel left Egypt as a mixed multitude. Honoring the Sabbath day is remembering the Sabbath day, Yah hallowed it and blessed it in the beginning, he rested after he finished all of his good work. Let us remember the Sabbath by keeping it holy.

Exodus 31 16-17 completely invalidates that opinion. Whom else has the Torah been given to? What other people received the command to observe the Shabbat? What other people observe the Shabbat, today?

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Exodus 31 16-17 completely invalidates that opinion. Whom else has the Torah been given to? What other people received the command to observe the Shabbat? What other people observe the Shabbat, today?

Please read Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for man long before there were any Jews, Cain and Abel each brought an offering before the L-rd. Moses says "Remember the Sabbath", you can only remember something that already exists. Moses did not want Israel to forget about the Lord of Sabbath.

 

[danny ski]

Please read Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for man long before there were any Jews, Cain and Abel each brought an offering before the L-rd. Moses says "Remember the Sabbath", you can only remember something that already exists. Moses did not want Israel to forget about the Lord of Sabbath.

It's really of no consequence what Mark wrote on the subject because it changes nothing regarding the commandment to observe Shabbat as it is contained in the Torah. Do tell, book, chapter and verse, where Cain and Able we're commanded to keep Shabbat as specified in the Mosaic Covenant?

 

[Open Heart]

If they observed all 613 laws why were they uncircumcised as they traveled through the wilderness and why did they worship the golden calf? The Sabbath was made for man, not for Jews only.

Figure it out. If they became one with Israel, and Israel was commanded to circumcise, what would they have done?

They worshiped the golden calf for the same reason that the Jews did.

I cannot answer your final comment as it would violate the SOP.

 

[Open Heart]

you can only remember something that already exists.

It existed, but it was only commanded to be remembered since the Exodus.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

It's really of no consequence what Mark wrote on the subject because it changes nothing regarding the commandment to observe Shabbat as it is contained in the Torah. Do tell, book, chapter and verse, where Cain and Able we're commanded to keep Shabbat as specified in the Mosaic Covenant?

Do you disagree with Yeshua? If you do then how can you claim to be Messianic? So "do not steal" only applies to Jews? What about "do not murder?" Cain murdered his brother, where and when was it written? Yeshua does those things he see his father doing.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Figure it out. If they became one with Israel, and Israel was commanded to circumcise, what would they have done?

They worshiped the golden calf for the same reason that the Jews did.

I cannot answer your final comment as it would violate the SOP.

Yeshua says the Sabbath was made for man, how does that violate the SOP?

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

It existed, but it was only commanded to be remembered since the Exodus.

The Sabbath existed prior to Moses, the Sabbath was made for man. Moses lead a mixed multitude out of Egypt, thus many heard the law read to them not just Jews.