Did Cain and Abel Keep the Torah or Sabbath?

Open Heart

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It isn't about happy or not, no big deal, just a misunderstanding. It was a simple question that was asked of me and we're on the same page... save for the Sabbath. I believe that once Adam was booted from the Garden and had to work... that he observed the Sabbath. I realize this is not specifically mentioned... but the Sabbath is God's way of allowing us all to recharge... in addition to setting a day aside to worship. Once Adam fell we have been in this same declining state ever since and because God does not change either... and seeing He set the example at Creation to keep Shabbat (I don't believe He was tired, I believe He was setting an example) then that FOR ME is the one exception. The rest of the moedim have to wait until the historical event takes place or God gives the command to observe.
I don't think Cain and Abel kept the Sabbath. I think they had down time to recover from work, enjoy their families, worship God, and replenish their bodies. There was no commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath at that time.
 
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Ken Rank

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I don't think Cain and Abel kept the Sabbath. I think they had down time to recover from work, enjoy their families, worship God, and replenish their bodies. There was no commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath at that time.
When God kept it He couldn't have been tired, He is God. Therefore, I can think of no other reason for Him to keep it other than to set the example for His created. If you have a better answer than that, trust me I will prayerfully consider it. But until I hear a better answer, that is mine. :)
 
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tampasteve

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I don't think Cain and Abel kept the Sabbath. I think they had down time to recover from work, enjoy their families, worship God, and replenish their bodies. There was no commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath at that time.
Perhaps not from the Tanakh, but in the Talmud and the Midrash (Beraishis Rabba 95:3) we see the patriarchs "study Torah", so it is inferred that the Torah predates the creation of the world and would have partially be imparted to Adam and passed down orally. Of course not binding on MJ's, but worthy of thinking upon. So, taking what Ken says above, it seems reasonable that G-d would have imparted this commandment to Adam orally at the start of his life.
 
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Open Heart

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Perhaps not from the Tanakh, but in the Talmud and the Midrash (Beraishis Rabba 95:3) we see the patriarchs "study Torah", so it is inferred that the Torah predates the creation of the world and would have partially be imparted to Adam and passed down orally. Of course not binding on MJ's, but worthy of thinking upon. So, taking what Ken says above, it seems reasonable that G-d would have imparted this commandment to Adam orally at the start of his life.
I agree that things like this from the Talmud should be given weight and thought about. I did think about it, and rejected it. Why? Torah evidence to the contrary such as God specifically giving Noah permission to eat treif in his covenant.
 
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tampasteve

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I agree that things like this from the Talmud should be given weight and thought about. I did think about it, and rejected it.
Fair enough :)
 
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Open Heart

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When God kept it He couldn't have been tired, He is God. Therefore, I can think of no other reason for Him to keep it other than to set the example for His created. If you have a better answer than that, trust me I will prayerfully consider it. But until I hear a better answer, that is mine. :)
It simply the ending of the song. The first chapter of Genesis was the story of creation passed down orally in the form of a song. Each day was a verse or stanza, and the words, "There was evening and there was morning, the X day," was like a chorus. So you have six verses of creation, you have a seventh verse to say, The End. It's beautiful.

It's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath back in Cain and Abel's day.
 
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Ken Rank

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It simply the ending of the song. The first chapter of Genesis was the story of creation passed down orally in the form of a song. Each day was a verse or stanza, and the words, "There was evening and there was morning, the X day," was like a chorus. So you have six verses of creation, you have a seventh verse to say, The End. It's beautiful.

It's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath.
I don't disagree with that but that doesn't change the fact that an all powerful, eternal being who can't get tired rested. If to not set the example, then why?
 
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pinacled

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It simply the ending of the song. The first chapter of Genesis was the story of creation passed down orally in the form of a song. Each day was a verse or stanza, and the words, "There was evening and there was morning, the X day," was like a chorus. So you have six verses of creation, you have a seventh verse to say, The End. It's beautiful.

It's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath.
Yet for those of the three that bear witness of the song of ascents having the Holy Spirit to guide us in the Lord's prayer.
There is meaning to entering into the Lord's rest and the inner court.
And an holy praise of fruits.
And this is the first heaven as I saw it.
 
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pinacled

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Yet for those of the three that bear witness of the song of ascents having the Holy Spirit to guide us in the Lord's prayer.
There is meaning to entering into the Lord's rest and the first court.
And an holy praise of fruits.
And this is the first heaven as I saw it.
Tomorrow I'll offer a perspective of the third temple that I've yet to hear from another.
 
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Open Heart

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I don't disagree with that but that doesn't change the fact that an all powerful, eternal being who can't get tired rested. If to not set the example, then why?
Because the story is a creative figurative teaching story, not history or science. Genesis 1 is meant to teach us that God created everything and that it is good. The six days and stuff are not literal. They are literary devices to create verses.
 
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Rachel Rachel

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It simply the ending of the song. The first chapter of Genesis was the story of creation passed down orally in the form of a song. Each day was a verse or stanza, and the words, "There was evening and there was morning, the X day," was like a chorus. So you have six verses of creation, you have a seventh verse to say, The End. It's beautiful.

It's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath.
Then why do you keep it? Keeping the Sabbath the way that you claim to is not an easy thing... not even turning on the stove or the microwave.
Also if the Commandments of God are not to be literally kept, then John lied when he said, "this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments."
 
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tampasteve

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Then why do you keep it? Keeping the Sabbath the way that you claim to is not an easy thing... not even turning on the stove or the microwave.
Also if the Commandments of God are not to be literally kept, then John lied when he said, "this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments."
Because the actual commandment came later, after the creation story. They were handed to Moshe on Mt. Sinai. The question at hand is not if the Sabbath should be kept, but rather did the Hebrews/Isrealites keep it, or any other feasts, before the actual passing of the Torah to Moshe.
 
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Rachel Rachel

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Because the actual commandment came later, after the creation story. They were handed to Moshe on Mt. Sinai. The question at hand is not if the Sabbath should be kept, but rather did the Hebrews/Isrealites keep it, or any other feasts, before the actual passing of the Torah to Moshe.
But I was responding directly to OH's comment that "it's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath."
 
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tampasteve

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But I was responding directly to OH's comment that "it's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath."
Perhaps I should let OpenHeart respond....but I read it more as in that particular passage does not command anyone to keep the Sabbath, as that was the passage being discussed, not Sabbath keeping in general as the discussion is about if feasts and celebrations were kept before they were specifically commanded on Mt. Siani.
 
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pinacled

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The elder shall serve the younger.

Something of these two siblings reminds me of something my Lord spoke of about the Door. perhaps like a gate to a home that a youth might of known and was pleading and working in faith to ask for forgiveness.
And i dont believe it should be reminded that cain was angry without cause.

The Altar and the Sabbath when bringing a gift.
Matthew 5:23-24New King James Version (NKJV)
23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

}Now it came to pass at the end of days, that Cain brought of the fruit of the soil an offering to the Lord.
And Abel he too brought of the firstborn of his flocks and of their fattest, and the Lord turned to Abel and to his offering.{

{14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer. 16 By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.…}



The Beginning and the End," Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.…


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


On Earth as it is in Heaven

This is he that came by water and blood, even the Holy one Yeshua; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

For the life is in the Blood, where there is blood there is a testator
As a result, this generation will be charged with the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the foundation of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, all of it will be charged to this generation. Woe to you experts in the law! For you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”…(entering what?) the Lords rest, a Good Sabbath

Even a double portion of such would give rise to the song of accents
The Lord knocks within the three gates that give witness, 3 times a yr, untouched for three yrs, 9 fruits of the spirit to mature a new creation.
honor your father and mother being the first commandment with a promise.

7(Spirit,
7(water,
7(blood.













 
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Open Heart

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Then why do you keep it?
Rachel. I said it wasn't commanded back in Cain and Abel's day. However it WAS commanded much later at Mt. Sinai. So, for example, Cain was not required to keep the Sabbath but Joshua was.

You asked me why *I* keep the Sabbath? I'm a Jew, so I do Jew stuff. It's part of my identity. I don't do it out of obligation, but out of love for Hashem. However, I think that ANYONE who voluntarily decides to keep the Sabbath will be blessed and I support them.
 
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Open Heart

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But I was responding directly to OH's comment that "it's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath."
I saw your quote of me, and I was like YIKES that wasn't quite what I meant! So I went back and edited my post to say "It's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath back in Cain and Abel's day."
 
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Rachel Rachel

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Rachel. I said it wasn't commanded back in Cain and Abel's day. However it WAS commanded much later at Mt. Sinai. So, for example, Cain was not required to keep the Sabbath but Joshua was.

You asked me why *I* keep the Sabbath? I'm a Jew, so I do Jew stuff. It's part of my identity. I don't do it out of obligation, but out of love for Hashem. However, I think that ANYONE who voluntarily decides to keep the Sabbath will be blessed and I support them.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were a Catholic.
 
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pinacled

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I saw your quote of me, and I was like YIKES that wasn't quite what I meant! So I went back and edited my post to say "It's not a commandment for anyone to keep the Sabbath back in Cain and Abel's day."
מִקֵּ֣ץ יָמִ֑ים
end of days, or yom qets.

In the end there will be rumors of wars
 
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